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Should he stay or should he go: Aqib Talib
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mcmurtry86

Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 16198

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:46 pm Post subject:

NextBigThing wrote:

mcmurtry86 wrote:

Need a better SS and more depth.

Improving DL has to be a big focus. The pass "rush" last night was just awful.

Depth is obviously an issue, but thats not exclusive to the Patriots. Chandler Jones being hurt also explains a lot of the pass rush issues. Depth will always be a concern, & we could use improvement at SS.

But if our starting defense is Jones Wilfork Francis Ninkovich, Mayo Spikes Hightower, Talib Dennard, McCourtey Gregory, with Arrington as the nickel CB, and Chung, Dowling, Deadrick, Love, and co as depth?

I'm fairly satisfied with that. Francis and Gregory could be upgraded of course, but they're far from horrible.

So pretty much the same exact defense?

And are you seriously advocating for both Arrington and Chung to be re-signed? Pretty sure this forum will explode if that happens.

Gregory, Love and Deaderick are low-end fill-ins and Dowling is a nobody. I don't qualify that as good, reliable depth. I'd like to see a few mid-range veteran pieces added to complement (or replace) some of the depth players they already have.

I_GET_SAX

Joined: 17 Nov 2012
Posts: 864
Location: Concord,NH

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:48 pm Post subject:

Are we really liking or favoring Gregory/Chung/Dowling over Tavon Wilson? I feel like we have forgotten that he is a really good young Safety that could match up across McCourty.
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NextBigThing

Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 15886
Location: Tuck Rule FTW

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:51 pm Post subject:

mcmurtry86 wrote:

Dd our second half defense play pretty damn well when healthy, or did not? I wont be upset if our defense going into next season is the same as the post Talib trade defense was. I wouldn't complain if we add another defensive lineman or ss, but i wouldnt cry if we dont.

Judge players as to how they play within the unit. Arrington is an excellent nickel corner. We almost never heard his name during the games we played at full health. If we can hang onto Talib, I would love to bring Arrington back as the #3 nickel corner.

It's really going unnoticed, but no Gronk, no Talib, and no Jones are what killed us yesterday. I am surprised patriots injuries aren't getting more attention.
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The King Does As He Pleases

NFLfan511 wrote:

NBT, I made an account here just because of you.

mcmurtry86

Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 16198

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:53 pm Post subject:

I_GET_SAX wrote:

Are we really liking or favoring Gregory/Chung/Dowling over Tavon Wilson? I feel like we have forgotten that he is a really good young Safety that could match up across McCourty.

Tavon Wilson didn't do much to justify calling him a "really good young safety"

To be honest, he was a near non-factor down the stretch and in the playoffs which isn't a good sign. Typically, young players earn more playing time as the year goes on.

He did some things well and might turn into a player down the road, but at this point I think it's best to assume he isn't going to be anything more than a depth player with the upside to be a #3.

He definitely deserves a shot to earn the starting SS job, but I didn't see much from him to indicate that he's the answer. Certainly not enough to preclude the team from adding additional talent at that spot.

24isthelaw

Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 5181
Location: Where the Patriots are

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:00 pm Post subject:

NextBigThing wrote:

mcmurtry86 wrote:

And last season we didn't have Gronk, and in 2009 we lost Welker, and in 2006 we lost Rodney and Seau, etc... To win you have to build a team that can weather injuries.
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NextBigThing

Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 15886
Location: Tuck Rule FTW

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:04 pm Post subject:

Yup Which is why we need another game changer on offense.
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The King Does As He Pleases

NFLfan511 wrote:

NBT, I made an account here just because of you.

mcmurtry86

Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 16198

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:05 pm Post subject:

24isthelaw wrote:

NextBigThing wrote:

mcmurtry86 wrote:

And last season we didn't have Gronk, and in 2009 we lost Welker, and in 2006 we lost Rodney and Seau, etc... To win you have to build a team that can weather injuries.

Yep. Can't make excuses for injuries in the NFL (outside of the QB). You can't expect to have all 22 starters healthy in the playoffs and the team has to be able to withstand the loss of a few top players.

mcmurtry86

Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 16198

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:08 pm Post subject:

NextBigThing wrote:

I wouldn't complain if we add another defensive lineman or ss, but i wouldnt cry if we dont.

You should cry if Kyle Love and Steve Greggory are 16 game starters next year. That's an absolute disaster IMO.

The defense isn't good enough - specifically the ability to press the QB and defend the middle of the field and short/intermediate routes (TE's, RBs in the passing game)

DL depth has to be a big priority and finding a pass rush that can exist without Jones is a must.

24isthelaw

Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 5181
Location: Where the Patriots are

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:18 pm Post subject:

mcmurtry86 wrote:

NextBigThing wrote:

I wouldn't complain if we add another defensive lineman or ss, but i wouldnt cry if we dont.

I don't think depth is an issue at all. We need impact more so than anything.

Get a bunch of guys who can beat the man in front of them with some consistency on the line together, and they don't have to be sack masters. Look at the better Pats defenses of the past, no 10+ sack beasts, just consistent pressure because on a given play someone is getting through. Right now we have guys who beat the man in front of them 1 in every 50 tries or so at two positions on the line.
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Adopt-a-Patriot: Marcus Forston - Practice squad (0 tackles, 0 sacks)

mcmurtry86

Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 16198

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:27 pm Post subject:

24isthelaw wrote:

mcmurtry86 wrote:

NextBigThing wrote:

I wouldn't complain if we add another defensive lineman or ss, but i wouldnt cry if we dont.

I dunno, the depth on the DL is pretty appalling. Francis looks promising but beyond that, there isn't anything. Bequette showed nothing, Cunningham is pretty useless and Scott is a free agent. On the inside, you have Wilfork and that's it. Love/Deaderick are passable backups but there isn't any diversity (i.e. no penetrating situational DT) and the starter next to Wilfork was a problem all season.

At LB, you have 3 good (or very good) starters and nothing. White? Koutouvides (both unsigned), Tarpinian from the practice squad? Ninkovich can sub at LB if needed but that leaves a big hole at DE.

At DB, the team has 1 decent CB (Dennard) under contract and only one backup safety (Wilson) - no I don't count Ebner as a viable safety option.

A lot will be made of the Pats big decisions (Vollmer, Welker, Talib) but the depth on D has to be addressed along with a high quality addition to the DL.

dhunt2402

Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 16674
Location: The District

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:33 pm Post subject:

mcmurtry86 wrote:

dhunt2402 wrote:

But if the front office wants to go the high draft pick route again at corner while letting a proven commodity like Talib go.....

Can't think they will go this route again. I'll be very frustrated if they do.

Agreed, but it wouldn't be the first time something like that gets sprung on us. We can only hope
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Canadian_Patriot

Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 8701
Location: Halifax

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:35 pm Post subject:

He needs to stay. Arrington needs to go.

and then we need another CB that can compete for a starting spot with Dennard and Talib. If Talib walks, I may walk off a bridge.

Donut

Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 11476

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:42 pm Post subject:

Canadian_Patriot wrote:

He needs to stay. Arrington needs to go.

and then we need another CB that can compete for a starting spot with Dennard and Talib. If Talib walks, I may walk off a bridge.

I dont think Arringotn would cost much to resign an have him return after last yr.
We have Dowling Cole Dennard Arrington and hopefully talib as core 5 copeting for spots along w/ other FAs we bring in. Also kick ftires of Allen and see how he does as a CB/S.

As DL depth. I hope Pryor can finally get healthy he looked good as situational DT before his injury and everyone thought he was better fit in 4-3.
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dhunt2402 wrote:

You're like the patron saint of roster bubble players Laughing

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mcmurtry86

Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 16198

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:43 pm Post subject:

Canadian_Patriot wrote:

He needs to stay. Arrington needs to go.

and then we need another CB that can compete for a starting spot with Dennard and Talib. If Talib walks, I may walk off a bridge.

Who replaces Arrington?

I think people are really underestimating how hard it is to find a serviceable #3 CB.

goldfishwars

Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Posts: 5350

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:45 pm Post subject:

mcmurtry86 wrote:

Canadian_Patriot wrote:

He needs to stay. Arrington needs to go.

and then we need another CB that can compete for a starting spot with Dennard and Talib. If Talib walks, I may walk off a bridge.

Who replaces Arrington?

I think people are really underestimating how hard it is to find a serviceable #3 CB.

I think he's been pretty serviceable as a #3.
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