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Wilkieray


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly right now I don't think we can make a bad pick at 11. There are too many guys that will with out a doubt be there and contribute right away. When has the last 1st round pick contributed right away. Ingram, Leuiget, Mathews, English, Cason, Buster Davis. Cromartie before that, he did alright though. Gotta look back to 05 before you see a great 1st rounder contribute right away. Merriman and Castillo, not to mention we got Sproles and V. Jackson in that draft. Now Leuiget, Mathews, Ingram may all still pan out and are very talented but their first year was no break out year for any of them. I think that there are many guys at 11 that will be able to have a great impact year 1. Assuming LT's are gone I like the 2 OG's, Millner and then Vacarro. Something tells me that Vacarro/Weddle combo would be hell on Payton. I think I would really like that pick even with our O-line needs. I see talented day 1 O-line picks in the 2nd and third. Another thought would be trade down and pull a Armstead, Minter, Rhodes type first two rounds. That would leave 3rd and 4th for a gaurd and right tackle. If I'm correct, Vasquez was a third round pick. Long winded I know, Just wanted to get out some ideas close to the draft.
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sd screenwriter


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Hey there, Mr. Drew"...yeah, obscure ELO reference. Yep, I tend to show up around draft time just to bring up the bottom of the pile when we get to the draft contest...

That said, NO WAY I would trade UP in this draft, if anything, let's trade down since this is a DEEP draft with no "super prospects". If someone falls to us at #11, okay, go for it, but if not, move down and start stockpiling O and D linemen. Championships are won in the trenches (sorry, I'm with Parcells on that one), which is something that AJ NEVER understood.

Give Philip time and he's got PLENTY of receivers to throw to.

I'm really high on this guy Quessenberry. Okay, all I know about him is I heard him interviewed on one of the local stations, but he has an "I'll crush you" mentality, which I LOVE and a killer work ethic and he could be had 3rd/4th round, so if we trade down, there are certainly possibilities to be had, even with stockpiling picks...B
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MrDrew


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quessenberry in the 3rd would be great. I don't think he's a Day 1 starter, but he's a few minor tweaks away from being very good.
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Duffman57


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sd screenwriter wrote:
"Hey there, Mr. Drew"...yeah, obscure ELO reference. Yep, I tend to show up around draft time just to bring up the bottom of the pile when we get to the draft contest...

That said, NO WAY I would trade UP in this draft, if anything, let's trade down since this is a DEEP draft with no "super prospects". If someone falls to us at #11, okay, go for it, but if not, move down and start stockpiling O and D linemen. Championships are won in the trenches (sorry, I'm with Parcells on that one), which is something that AJ NEVER understood.

Give Philip time and he's got PLENTY of receivers to throw to.

I'm really high on this guy Quessenberry. Okay, all I know about him is I heard him interviewed on one of the local stations, but he has an "I'll crush you" mentality, which I LOVE and a killer work ethic and he could be had 3rd/4th round, so if we trade down, there are certainly possibilities to be had, even with stockpiling picks...B


I wouldn't be that mad trading up GIVEN that we can go up and take Eric Fisher. If its anybody but him/Joeckel, its a awful trade up.

Quessenberry is going to take some strength training, but the athleticism and nastiness is there. I still think that Xavier Nixon is only a few tweaks away from being a very good NFL OT, and we have a coach who did a very good job in college as an OL coach, so he knows how to get guys through the entire process of developing a guy mentally and physically. Nixon seems to be the type of OT that Joe D likes.
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MrDrew


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duffman57 wrote:
sd screenwriter wrote:
"Hey there, Mr. Drew"...yeah, obscure ELO reference. Yep, I tend to show up around draft time just to bring up the bottom of the pile when we get to the draft contest...

That said, NO WAY I would trade UP in this draft, if anything, let's trade down since this is a DEEP draft with no "super prospects". If someone falls to us at #11, okay, go for it, but if not, move down and start stockpiling O and D linemen. Championships are won in the trenches (sorry, I'm with Parcells on that one), which is something that AJ NEVER understood.

Give Philip time and he's got PLENTY of receivers to throw to.

I'm really high on this guy Quessenberry. Okay, all I know about him is I heard him interviewed on one of the local stations, but he has an "I'll crush you" mentality, which I LOVE and a killer work ethic and he could be had 3rd/4th round, so if we trade down, there are certainly possibilities to be had, even with stockpiling picks...B


I wouldn't be that mad trading up GIVEN that we can go up and take Eric Fisher. If its anybody but him/Joeckel, its a awful trade up.

Quessenberry is going to take some strength training, but the athleticism and nastiness is there. I still think that Xavier Nixon is only a few tweaks away from being a very good NFL OT, and we have a coach who did a very good job in college as an OL coach, so he knows how to get guys through the entire process of developing a guy mentally and physically. Nixon seems to be the type of OT that Joe D likes.


Trading up for Joeckel is a horrible idea. I'd rather trade down a little and grab Menelik Watson if they're going to take somebody that couldn't start at LT for a year or two.
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sd screenwriter


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, sorry, I can't abide ANY trade up where we give up our 2nd rounder. There simply is NO ONE in this draft worth that. That having been said, if all the OTs and Cooper (my fav) and Warmack are gone, if a D guy like Star was still there, that would be cool with me. Watched tape on him and, WOW, a man among boys...
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Boltstrikes


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we trade up I will lose my mind. I LOVE Lane Johnson but we have huge holes in our starting lineup and there isn't one position on this team outside of WR that I feel we have any depth at all at the position.

We need help and need more picks to do so. If we have a guy we like at 11 then grab them, if not trade down and pick up more players to help us now. Lieuget helped us year 1. We need more of that.
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Duffman57


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont see all these HUGE holes that people are talking about. Most of them are just positions of question. Will Brandon Taylor be healthy, can Mouton step in at ILB, can Thomas step up, and at OG, i'm confident in Rinehart, the question is if Troutman can step in and play. OT is a huge problem, but thats the only HUGE problem where we dont have anyone, but everywhere else, is just questions that can be upgraded.
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MrDrew


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duffman57 wrote:
I dont see all these HUGE holes that people are talking about. Most of them are just positions of question. Will Brandon Taylor be healthy, can Mouton step in at ILB, can Thomas step up, and at OG, i'm confident in Rinehart, the question is if Troutman can step in and play. OT is a huge problem, but thats the only HUGE problem where we dont have anyone, but everywhere else, is just questions that can be upgraded.


I'm willing to bet I'm not the only one that forgot about Rinehart. He may not be special, but he'll definitely work.

OT is the huge hole. There's need for depth everywhere, except WR.
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Neutral


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrDrew wrote:
I'm willing to bet I'm not the only one that forgot about Rinehart. He may not be special, but he'll definitely work.

OT is the huge hole. There's need for depth everywhere, except WR.


I disagree about these two.

OLB is the other huge hole. The team has Melvin Ingram, who I'm excited to see what he can do with regular playing time, and that's about it. Jarret Johnson is a nice player, but he's not a pass rushing presence, and he's not going to play out his contract. His cap figure jumps to $5.5M in 2014 and even higher in 2015. Even if he stays healthy and doesn't regress, that's too much money to spend on a part-time player, especially one that doesn't add value as a pass rusher. Even if they re-sign Shaun Phillips as a part-time player for this year, there's no depth and no plan for the future.

WR depth is absolutely needed. We can't expect anything out of Meachem. The lack of chemistry with Rivers and limited route running seems to be something that will transcend scheme. It would take an incredible turn around for him to be in their plans for 2014 or beyond. And even if he is capable, he might not get the playing time to prove it. Additionally, Royal is not going to be around for long. In fact, he might be cut as early as this weekend. Keeping Royal on the roster is equivalent to giving him a 1-year, $3.0M contract. If Telesco did that in free agency, Chargers fans would be up in arms, and rightfully so. I don't see a justification for keeping him on the roster at that price. I expect that Royal will be cut this offseason. They don't really need him, and there are alternatives, specifically re-signing Spurlock (or equivalent) or having Brown split time with a rookie in the slot. And for good measure, Danario Alexander is not a lock to be in the long-term plans, for all the reasons why nobody signed him to an offer sheet. The Chargers are looking at 2014 without Royal or Meachem on the roster. If DX is out of the picture as well, WR is suddenly a paper thin position. Grabbing one or even two Day 3 prospects to groom at WR would be a good move.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neutral wrote:
MrDrew wrote:
I'm willing to bet I'm not the only one that forgot about Rinehart. He may not be special, but he'll definitely work.

OT is the huge hole. There's need for depth everywhere, except WR.


I disagree about these two.

OLB is the other huge hole. The team has Melvin Ingram, who I'm excited to see what he can do with regular playing time, and that's about it. Jarret Johnson is a nice player, but he's not a pass rushing presence, and he's not going to play out his contract. His cap figure jumps to $5.5M in 2014 and even higher in 2015. Even if he stays healthy and doesn't regress, that's too much money to spend on a part-time player, especially one that doesn't add value as a pass rusher. Even if they re-sign Shaun Phillips as a part-time player for this year, there's no depth and no plan for the future.

WR depth is absolutely needed. We can't expect anything out of Meachem. The lack of chemistry with Rivers and limited route running seems to be something that will transcend scheme. It would take an incredible turn around for him to be in their plans for 2014 or beyond. And even if he is capable, he might not get the playing time to prove it. Additionally, Royal is not going to be around for long. In fact, he might be cut as early as this weekend. Keeping Royal on the roster is equivalent to giving him a 1-year, $3.0M contract. If Telesco did that in free agency, Chargers fans would be up in arms, and rightfully so. I don't see a justification for keeping him on the roster at that price. I expect that Royal will be cut this offseason. They don't really need him, and there are alternatives, specifically re-signing Spurlock (or equivalent) or having Brown split time with a rookie in the slot. And for good measure, Danario Alexander is not a lock to be in the long-term plans, for all the reasons why nobody signed him to an offer sheet. The Chargers are looking at 2014 without Royal or Meachem on the roster. If DX is out of the picture as well, WR is suddenly a paper thin position. Grabbing one or even two Day 3 prospects to groom at WR would be a good move.


Ingram and JJ are both capable starters. JJ is there to stop the run, and he can get to the QB. Not as good a a pure rusher, but better than some. I agree there's a need for help there, and there should be one drafted in the first 3 rounds.

DX, Floyd, Brown, Meach, Royal, Goodman, and Willie should be fine at WR. I'm hoping a new offense, and a year, will help Rivers and Meach get it together. I also think Meach had the quicksand effect going on. He had a couple bad plays, and then started having more and more issues. If he can get it together, he can be a really good deep threat.
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Duffman57


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neutral wrote:
MrDrew wrote:
I'm willing to bet I'm not the only one that forgot about Rinehart. He may not be special, but he'll definitely work.

OT is the huge hole. There's need for depth everywhere, except WR.


I disagree about these two.

OLB is the other huge hole. The team has Melvin Ingram, who I'm excited to see what he can do with regular playing time, and that's about it. Jarret Johnson is a nice player, but he's not a pass rushing presence, and he's not going to play out his contract. His cap figure jumps to $5.5M in 2014 and even higher in 2015. Even if he stays healthy and doesn't regress, that's too much money to spend on a part-time player, especially one that doesn't add value as a pass rusher. Even if they re-sign Shaun Phillips as a part-time player for this year, there's no depth and no plan for the future.

WR depth is absolutely needed. We can't expect anything out of Meachem. The lack of chemistry with Rivers and limited route running seems to be something that will transcend scheme. It would take an incredible turn around for him to be in their plans for 2014 or beyond. And even if he is capable, he might not get the playing time to prove it. Additionally, Royal is not going to be around for long. In fact, he might be cut as early as this weekend. Keeping Royal on the roster is equivalent to giving him a 1-year, $3.0M contract. If Telesco did that in free agency, Chargers fans would be up in arms, and rightfully so. I don't see a justification for keeping him on the roster at that price. I expect that Royal will be cut this offseason. They don't really need him, and there are alternatives, specifically re-signing Spurlock (or equivalent) or having Brown split time with a rookie in the slot. And for good measure, Danario Alexander is not a lock to be in the long-term plans, for all the reasons why nobody signed him to an offer sheet. The Chargers are looking at 2014 without Royal or Meachem on the roster. If DX is out of the picture as well, WR is suddenly a paper thin position. Grabbing one or even two Day 3 prospects to groom at WR would be a good move.


OLB we have our starters, plain and simple. There's still some hope to hold out for English just as a situational pass rusher, but overall, what we're needing here, barring an elite edge rusher like Mingo, maybe Dion Jordan, maybe Tank Carradine, is a pass rush specialist, and a decent one can be found later in the drafts, wont be elite but will be good enough to get some pressure on the QB. Having a great pass rushing DL is going to massively help this team, and take a LOT of pressure off the OLBs to create pressure on they're own. Ingram was a alright pass rusher last year when he got a shot, was just a step slow a lot of times, think he can get quicker and better this year.

At WR, don't think we grab one other than a developmental guy late. You're forgetting that despite Meachem/Royals down performance, both are deep threats mainly, and we had a line that when they let up pressure to Rivers, the average time from snap to pressure/sack was under 2 seconds, which is pathetic, considering rivers was sacked 50 times (about 3-4 times a game) and hit 70 times (couldn't find just pressures). But we already knew our OL was bad. DAX not getting claimed doesn't mean jack-(....), all it means was that any offer that the other teams were willing to throw at him, we were willing to claim. Sure he's an injury concern, but if hes healthy, he's a true #1 receiver, and the type of guy that Rivers loves to throw to. And to add to that, while we're paying Meach/Royal 6/3m total, remember we're paying Floyd/Dax/Brown all under 2m IIRC. People also forget that while he didn't perform this year, he was also hurt all this year, people gotta give him a chance before he is crucified. New training staff/HC/Scheme will help him a lot, still a very dangerous return man when healthy.
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Boltstrikes


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Meachem sucks. I don't think we will get any value out of him. He failed to achieve in New Orleans and failed here. His route running stinks, his hands stink, he blocks poorly... the only thing he has to offer is speed and even that is vastly over rated. Essentially I view him as a homeless man's Donte Stallworth.

That being said, with Floyd/Alexander on one side depending on which one is hurt that week, and Brown on the other side with Royal in the slot I am feeling pretty good. I'd love to have one more receiver in the mix though on the chance that both Floyd/Alexander are hurt but it's a luxury that we can't afford given the needs at SS, LT, LG, RT, RB, ILB, SS, CB, and OLB.... We are going into the year with two starters at OLB that combined for 2.5 sacks last year. Hades help us if one of them gets hurt.
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Duffman57


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boltstrikes wrote:
I think Meachem sucks. I don't think we will get any value out of him. He failed to achieve in New Orleans and failed here. His route running stinks, his hands stink, he blocks poorly... the only thing he has to offer is speed and even that is vastly over rated. Essentially I view him as a homeless man's Donte Stallworth.

That being said, with Floyd/Alexander on one side depending on which one is hurt that week, and Brown on the other side with Royal in the slot I am feeling pretty good. I'd love to have one more receiver in the mix though on the chance that both Floyd/Alexander are hurt but it's a luxury that we can't afford given the needs at SS, LT, LG, RT, RB, ILB, SS, CB, and OLB.... We are going into the year with two starters at OLB that combined for 2.5 sacks last year. Hades help us if one of them gets hurt.


Lol, you're just blindly hating on him now. He's known as one of the better blocking WR's and is extremely physical and has a lot of speed.

I'm still not quite sure where the huge need at RB is coming from. Sure Mathews needs to step it up, and some competition, but whoever we bring in, barring using a 1st-3rd round pick is our 3rd RB, maybe 4th depending on what we do with McClain/Brown/Battle/Baker, i just dont see that big of a need here.

Another noteable thing here is that our OL coach is known from turning OL's around quickly, did a great job in buffalo and KC, using very little immediate talent upgrade. I think we need another piece or two, but something that just keeps screaming at me is that people forget about King. He's huge, long, surprisingly athletic, already a decent to solid OT in pass pro, despite how he got crucified in Philly (because we all know how rational they are...). He made a solid LT out of Demetreus Bell in Buffalo when Jason Peters left, and Bell was completely out of nowhere. Rinehart is a solid OG, we have pretty good depth there, who are all the type of players that he likes in OG's (smart, very technical and sound players who can move). One guy i think that could be a good pick for us is Barrett Jones, like Levitre, played OT in college (and C) but if best fit for OG in the NFL, good fit in a power type ZBS, and is one hell of a smart kid, who's got everything down technically. Get him as an OG/eventual C, who can make spot starts at LT/RT if needed (like Levitre did with Buffalo, playing a few games at LT this past year). I dont think OL is as heavy of a need as people think, because of how our OL coach does things.

Another thing that i keep saying is that historically, if you look at his drafting style with OT's, they're usually big guys who are quick footed. I keep thinking that Xavier Nixon later would be a perfect fit for this team. Bigger guy, GREAT feet, can have some lapses mentally, and there's times when he can slack off a bit for a play or two, but when he's on he's NASTY going through the wistle and finishing blocks. Shadows guys like nobody else in this class, great punch, biggest problem is that he can get impatient in pass pro, and start lunging at guys, giving easy lanes to the QB when he misses, and similarly he can tend to lean into his guys rather than keeping a solid base. He's a guy who IMO can be coached up pretty easily as long as he's mentally willing, Joe D's a former college coach, so he seems like a good candidate to deal with this kind of guy.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree about Ingram getting better. He was winning some of his battles and getting into the backfield. He looked a lot better than his stats indicate, and will get the playing time to prove himself. I'm not concerned about him. What I'm concerned about is that they're going to get into a situation like a few years ago where Shaun Phillips is producing, and the OLB opposite him isn't, resulting in a mediocre pass rush. The DL can only do so much if the player can't win his matchup. Adding a pass rushing specialist is a good idea. You can never get enough of these guys. But, I see them needing to get an every-down OLB, and soon. I see the Jarret Johnson platoon as a quick fix on A.J.'s part. It made considering the need at OLB, presence of Barnes, and the cap limitations. I don't see that being a good plan going into the future, though it might be put off because of how the board falls and other needs.

Duffman57 wrote:
And to add to that, while we're paying Meach/Royal 6/3m total, remember we're paying Floyd/Dax/Brown all under 2m IIRC. People also forget that while he didn't perform this year, he was also hurt all this year, people gotta give him a chance before he is crucified. New training staff/HC/Scheme will help him a lot, still a very dangerous return man when healthy.


It doesn't matter what those other three are getting paid. The issue is that Meachem and Royal are not worth their salary. That alone, and no other factors, mean that they are on the chopping block. I get that they can't get out of Meachem's contract this year, but they can get out of Royal's contract right now if they want. If he's okay with making Royal a June 1st cut, then they can wait until preseason to make that move. And that's an option that Telesco is likely considering. We're talking about a player who hasn't been productive in years, was injured last season, and that's with familiarity with the new head coach.

I'll pose this question to everybody: if you are in Telesco's shoes, and you have the option of giving Royal a one-year, $3.0M contract, do you do it?

And how about Meachem. What is he going to have to accomplish this year to make it worth paying his $5.0M salary in 2014?

I don't see a lot of hope for those two. They're fighting a very uphill battle, and both are likely on their way out and soon. I'd be surprised if Royal is on the 53-man roster this year, at least not without a significant paycut.

Duffman57 wrote:
DAX not getting claimed doesn't mean jack-(....), all it means was that any offer that the other teams were willing to throw at him, we were willing to claim. Sure he's an injury concern, but if hes healthy, he's a true #1 receiver, and the type of guy that Rivers loves to throw to.


It does matter. It shows that other teams came to the same conclusion, that DAX is not a sure thing. He might stay healthy and be a #1 receiver, but there's a heightened risk of him blowing out his knee and ending his career for good. Even if he stays healthy, that will always be weighing on the mind of the team that signs him long-term. He's a player that a team is going to need to have a plan B in place should that happen. It's similar to how the Chargers needed a plan B for when McNeill couldn't perform anymore.

MrDrew wrote:
DX, Floyd, Brown, Meach, Royal, Goodman, and Willie should be fine at WR. I'm hoping a new offense, and a year, will help Rivers and Meach get it together. I also think Meach had the quicksand effect going on. He had a couple bad plays, and then started having more and more issues. If he can get it together, he can be a really good deep threat.


At what point does that hope get weighed against the reality that Royal and Meach are both among the Chargers' highest paid players in 2013?
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