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larrywhigham25


Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 394
Location: taunton, ma
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a huge Welker fan but even I am sick of the drops, some of which come at the wrong time. But at the risk of sounding like an apologist, I think some of it stems from the fact he is asked to do too much. The Pats have nothing resembling a 3rd WR; at many times this year, Lloyd was invisible. The tight ends are great, but one was typically unavailable. Welker is great, but he is small, takes a beating, gets tons of targets every week, plus he was asked to bring back punts after Edelman got hurt. The drop yesterday was such a huge play but people will forget it came after a helmet to helmet filthy hit by Pollard. He probably was seeing stars, similar to what happened in the Seattle game this year. The drops are frustrating, but some of it has to be attributed to the fact, in my mind, that the Pats are simply asking too much of him.

That being said, whether he stays or goes, it will be interesting to see what kind of contract he gets.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 24204
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

larrywhigham25 wrote:
The drops are frustrating, but some of it has to be attributed to the fact, in my mind, that the Pats are simply asking too much of him.



I get what you're saying, but if that's the reason he struggles at times there is no reason to pay him big bucks. You can't justify a contract for him if you're going to say that he needs a diminished role in order to be successful. So much of his value comes in his ability to do a ton for the team.
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AlexHyun777


Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Posts: 396
Location: Whittier, CA
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

im expecting BB to revolutionize our WR position in the draft/FA like he did with the TE position.

we just don't have athletic/physical receivers that can handle punishment and keep defense honest
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Canadian_Patriot


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Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 9017
Location: Halifax
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
Canadian_Patriot wrote:
Same issues for me as the last 2 years.

Can't cover. (safeties)
Can't rush the passer.(Anyone)
Can't get effective WR play outside the numbers and beyond 15 yards.

Other then that I'm happy with the roster.

CP


McCourty is good in coverage. Gregory is a poor starter and needs to be upgraded.

Improving the pass rush and adding speed to the WR corps has to be atop the wish list for the offseason beyond the CB situation.


I would agree. I am hoping that BB doesn't feel that he's already taken care of the pass rush with Jones/Francis/Bequette, though. I think someone is needed opposite Jones to truely get the best out of the D-Line as a whole.

I am coming around on your opinion of Welker, I think it's time to cut him loose if his price remains the same as last off-season. Which I'm sure it has. I wish Greg Jennings wasn't becoming an injury concern. He's a guy I'd be comfortable paying "Welker money", for.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 24204
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Canadian_Patriot wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Canadian_Patriot wrote:
Same issues for me as the last 2 years.

Can't cover. (safeties)
Can't rush the passer.(Anyone)
Can't get effective WR play outside the numbers and beyond 15 yards.

Other then that I'm happy with the roster.

CP


McCourty is good in coverage. Gregory is a poor starter and needs to be upgraded.

Improving the pass rush and adding speed to the WR corps has to be atop the wish list for the offseason beyond the CB situation.


I would agree. I am hoping that BB doesn't feel that he's already taken care of the pass rush with Jones/Francis/Bequette, though. I think someone is needed opposite Jones to truely get the best out of the D-Line as a whole.


The boost to the pass-rush needs to come from an interior sub rusher (think Mike Wright/Jarvis Green) or a bona fide 3 down starting UT next to Wilfork.

Ninkovich, for all his flaws, has proven to be useful enough as a pass rusher that I don't see him as being replaced at LE in that capacity. So how do they upgrade? How many guys are going to be better rushers than Ninkovich? You can find some, but they'd be pricey. A more complete (i.e. someone who can play the run) LE would be great but I doubt they invest a high pick or big money in that.
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TomRalph


Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 10894
Location: Revis Island
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At least we have a boat load of draft picks to reload the roster with Confused
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Times Tom Brady has actively ignored throwing to Number 80:
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 24204
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomRalph wrote:
At least we have a boat load of draft picks to reload the roster with Confused


They still have the ones that matter most.

Besides, this team doesn't need to reload. They're coming off Super Bowl and AFCCG seasons.
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NextBigThing


Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 2012 Patriots were 1 or two impact players away from totally running the show. Keep Volmer and Talib, get a WR, SS, and DE, and we are the best team in football hands down when at full health.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 24204
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
The 2012 Patriots were 1 or two impact players away from totally running the show. Keep Volmer and Talib, get a WR, SS, and DE, and we are the best team in football hands down when at full health.


Better yet, let Vollmer and Welker go, keep Talib and invest a ton of money in the D and a pair of 2nd tier WR's (e.g. S.Moss/Amendola)
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TomRalph


Joined: 03 Apr 2009
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Location: Revis Island
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
NextBigThing wrote:
The 2012 Patriots were 1 or two impact players away from totally running the show. Keep Volmer and Talib, get a WR, SS, and DE, and we are the best team in football hands down when at full health.


Better yet, let Vollmer and Welker go, keep Talib and invest a ton of money in the D and a pair of 2nd tier WR's (e.g. S.Moss/Amendola)


I'm still hoping we can go down the route where we keep Vollmer and Talib. I don't want to see 2 of the 'Big 3' leaving.

If you think we could get Amendola in as a cheap replacement for Welker, I'll join the bandwagon.
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NextBigThing


Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 22624
Location: Beat Of My Own Drum
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
NextBigThing wrote:
The 2012 Patriots were 1 or two impact players away from totally running the show. Keep Volmer and Talib, get a WR, SS, and DE, and we are the best team in football hands down when at full health.


Better yet, let Vollmer and Welker go, keep Talib and invest a ton of money in the D and a pair of 2nd tier WR's (e.g. R.Moss/Amendola)


Wink

But seriously either Moss or Amendola won't cut it. We need pure, raw, badass speed.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 24204
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
NextBigThing wrote:
The 2012 Patriots were 1 or two impact players away from totally running the show. Keep Volmer and Talib, get a WR, SS, and DE, and we are the best team in football hands down when at full health.


Better yet, let Vollmer and Welker go, keep Talib and invest a ton of money in the D and a pair of 2nd tier WR's (e.g. R.Moss/Amendola)


Wink

But seriously either Moss or Amendola won't cut it. We need pure, raw, badass speed.


And you can still get it with a 2nd tier veteran and a top 50 draft pick.

The goal should be to improve and diversify/deepen the WR corps. But you can't go into the draft "having" to take a WR and I doubt Belichick will. I would expect 2-3 WR's signed in free agency (of varying expense and quality) so that they're not forced to draft one but they'll probably be looking hard.
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Canadian_Patriot


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Joined: 26 Jan 2005
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Location: Halifax
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
Canadian_Patriot wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Canadian_Patriot wrote:
Same issues for me as the last 2 years.

Can't cover. (safeties)
Can't rush the passer.(Anyone)
Can't get effective WR play outside the numbers and beyond 15 yards.

Other then that I'm happy with the roster.

CP


McCourty is good in coverage. Gregory is a poor starter and needs to be upgraded.

Improving the pass rush and adding speed to the WR corps has to be atop the wish list for the offseason beyond the CB situation.


I would agree. I am hoping that BB doesn't feel that he's already taken care of the pass rush with Jones/Francis/Bequette, though. I think someone is needed opposite Jones to truely get the best out of the D-Line as a whole.


The boost to the pass-rush needs to come from an interior sub rusher (think Mike Wright/Jarvis Green) or a bona fide 3 down starting UT next to Wilfork.

Ninkovich, for all his flaws, has proven to be useful enough as a pass rusher that I don't see him as being replaced at LE in that capacity. So how do they upgrade? How many guys are going to be better rushers than Ninkovich? You can find some, but they'd be pricey. A more complete (i.e. someone who can play the run) LE would be great but I doubt they invest a high pick or big money in that.


A fair point, I think the other causation for our poor pass rush can be attributed to defensive play calling. Don't seem to blitz nearly enough. Relying on guys that aren't pure pass rushers to get pressure when we only rush 4 is so flawed.
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NextBigThing


Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 22624
Location: Beat Of My Own Drum
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of Williams, Patterson, or Hunter will be there at 29. They compliment Lloyd perfect. Gronk at T=E, Hernandez as the 3rd receiver/do it all guy. Edleman in on the occasional route.
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Canadian_Patriot


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Joined: 26 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
One of Williams, Patterson, or Hunter will be there at 29. They compliment Lloyd perfect. Gronk at T=E, Hernandez as the 3rd receiver/do it all guy. Edleman in on the occasional route.


The huge problem with this is this team cannot evaluate or draft wide receiver talent. We haven't drafted and developed one of our own since...

.
.
.
.

Confused

(I personally agree there needs to be someone across from Lloyd that's not a slot receiver.)
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