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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7925
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
So the same applies to Eric Fisher then?...

Tell you what Al you keep scouting Taylor Lewan as a “mid-round” prospect who hasn’t even declared and let the rest of us get on with it.
Right, what you do is soo important. We all hang on your every word.


Not going to answer the question then? Not surprising considering you probably didn’t know Fisher had gone through the same kind of transition along with many other top OT prospects…

I have never claimed what I write to be important…if people read it then great if people don’t fair enough…there are many guys on this site who have an in-depth knowledge of the draft year in year out…we may not always agree or see the same things in players but we put the effort in to actually watch and learn about these prospects so if people do want to read our opinions they are formed based on information that has been gathered The "expert" I mentioned you rejected for not meeting the standards of CBS (a network with an incredibly low tolerance or understanding of the truth)…unlike yourself who simply posted nonsical rubbish based on nothing which is wasting people's time. It is interesting that you would be so insulting to a fellow Bears fan for no good reason. Particularly since anyone can read the same tripe you do. Why such unnecessary hostility?
Fisher started out being a QB and has gained a lot of weight in the last few years? If he has been anything other than a OL I'm sure you will let me know. He has risen from the initial Steele ratings and but did make his top 50 ratings unlike Johnson. And, as for as I know, he has started more games in the line even though it was against weak competition. So any advantage there may cancel out.

I have some concerns about Fisher as well for some of the same reasons and some different ones. Playing well against major competitors for a week or so does not translate to playing well consistently against the best for years.

I feel most confident about taking players who have long experience against the best competition. But we have seen excellent players from small schools as Bear fans. I would not automatically exclude taking a Fisher over an Alabama lineman but it would take a heck of a lot more than what I have seen so far to make that pick.
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 22723
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
So the same applies to Eric Fisher then?...

Tell you what Al you keep scouting Taylor Lewan as a “mid-round” prospect who hasn’t even declared and let the rest of us get on with it.
Right, what you do is soo important. We all hang on your every word.


Not going to answer the question then? Not surprising considering you probably didn’t know Fisher had gone through the same kind of transition along with many other top OT prospects…

I have never claimed what I write to be important…if people read it then great if people don’t fair enough…there are many guys on this site who have an in-depth knowledge of the draft year in year out…we may not always agree or see the same things in players but we put the effort in to actually watch and learn about these prospects so if people do want to read our opinions they are formed based on information that has been gathered The "expert" I mentioned you rejected for not meeting the standards of CBS (a network with an incredibly low tolerance or understanding of the truth)…unlike yourself who simply posted nonsical rubbish based on nothing which is wasting people's time. It is interesting that you would be so insulting to a fellow Bears fan for no good reason. Particularly since anyone can read the same tripe you do. Why such unnecessary hostility?
Fisher started out being a QB and has gained a lot of weight in the last few years? If he has been anything other than a OL I'm sure you will let me know. He has risen from the initial Steele ratings and but did make his top 50 ratings unlike Johnson. And, as for as I know, he has started more games in the line even though it was against weak competition. So any advantage there may cancel out.

I have some concerns about Fisher as well for some of the same reasons and some different ones. Playing well against major competitors for a week or so does not translate to playing well consistently against the best for years.

I feel most confident about taking players who have long experience against the best competition. But we have seen excellent players from small schools as Bear fans. I would not automatically exclude taking a Fisher over an Alabama lineman but it would take a heck of a lot more than what I have seen so far to make that pick.


The “expert” you mentioned is far from an expert…just look at his rankings year in year out compared to what actually happen in the draft…as for hostility and insults it is neither to tell someone the truth…the truth is you are babbling on about something you clearly have no knowledge of…

Not only that but I gave you a chance to do a little research into the guys you are forming an opinion on based on nothing…Fisher started out as a TE and had added 60lbs to play on the Oline…I shouldn’t have to let you know this if you are wanting to give an opinion on these guys you should have already done this research…

Also this…

ChicagoAl wrote:
I would not automatically exclude taking a Fisher over an Alabama lineman but it would take a heck of a lot more than what I have seen so far to make that pick.


This basically sums up what you know.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7925
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
So the same applies to Eric Fisher then?...

Tell you what Al you keep scouting Taylor Lewan as a “mid-round” prospect who hasn’t even declared and let the rest of us get on with it.
Right, what you do is soo important. We all hang on your every word.


Not going to answer the question then? Not surprising considering you probably didn’t know Fisher had gone through the same kind of transition along with many other top OT prospects…

I have never claimed what I write to be important…if people read it then great if people don’t fair enough…there are many guys on this site who have an in-depth knowledge of the draft year in year out…we may not always agree or see the same things in players but we put the effort in to actually watch and learn about these prospects so if people do want to read our opinions they are formed based on information that has been gathered The "expert" I mentioned you rejected for not meeting the standards of CBS (a network with an incredibly low tolerance or understanding of the truth)…unlike yourself who simply posted nonsical rubbish based on nothing which is wasting people's time. It is interesting that you would be so insulting to a fellow Bears fan for no good reason. Particularly since anyone can read the same tripe you do. Why such unnecessary hostility?
Fisher started out being a QB and has gained a lot of weight in the last few years? If he has been anything other than a OL I'm sure you will let me know. He has risen from the initial Steele ratings and but did make his top 50 ratings unlike Johnson. And, as for as I know, he has started more games in the line even though it was against weak competition. So any advantage there may cancel out.

I have some concerns about Fisher as well for some of the same reasons and some different ones. Playing well against major competitors for a week or so does not translate to playing well consistently against the best for years.

I feel most confident about taking players who have long experience against the best competition. But we have seen excellent players from small schools as Bear fans. I would not automatically exclude taking a Fisher over an Alabama lineman but it would take a heck of a lot more than what I have seen so far to make that pick.


The “expert” you mentioned is far from an expert…just look at his rankings year in year out compared to what actually happen in the draft…as for hostility and insults it is neither to tell someone the truth…the truth is you are babbling on about something you clearly have no knowledge of… An "expert" is someone who gets paid for his opinions and research not a nameless staffer at CBS or someone you must approve. Hence, Steele is far more qualified than you in this regard no matter what you might think. It would not have mattered much who I quoted though or referenced. All I did in any case was reference Johnson and Fisher's standing with Steele prior to the season. He may be at the head of your bandwagon now for all I know.

Plenty of people disagree with things I say around here but most do not treat me as if I am the Enemy. You treat me with great hostility when little of it is called for. So I forget that Lewan is not coming out, that makes me ignorant and contemptible? Or I don't necessarily agree with your approved gurus at CBS so I should be insulted.


Not only that but I gave you a chance to do a little research into the guys you are forming an opinion on based on nothing…Fisher started out as a TE and had added 60lbs to play on the Oline…I shouldn’t have to let you know this if you are wanting to give an opinion on these guys you should have already done this research… I spend more time studying Shakespeare and Greek philosophy than pouring over all the alleged information purveyed by CBS about a draft several months down the road. I have stacks of draft magazines older than you are and most of the information within is as useless and/or false as that CBS is peddling.

While TE is not QB and plays on the Oline I appreciate the information. I hope providing it was not too painful.



Also this…

ChicagoAl wrote:
I would not automatically exclude taking a Fisher over an Alabama lineman but it would take a heck of a lot more than what I have seen so far to make that pick.


This basically sums up what you know.
No one "knows" much at this point wrt these picks which are huge gambles (even bigger than the typical first round picks). I generally won't go All In with a pair of tens and neither will Emery but you are welcome to. Who was correct about Lovie Smith getting canned?
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 22723
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
So the same applies to Eric Fisher then?...

Tell you what Al you keep scouting Taylor Lewan as a “mid-round” prospect who hasn’t even declared and let the rest of us get on with it.
Right, what you do is soo important. We all hang on your every word.


Not going to answer the question then? Not surprising considering you probably didn’t know Fisher had gone through the same kind of transition along with many other top OT prospects…

I have never claimed what I write to be important…if people read it then great if people don’t fair enough…there are many guys on this site who have an in-depth knowledge of the draft year in year out…we may not always agree or see the same things in players but we put the effort in to actually watch and learn about these prospects so if people do want to read our opinions they are formed based on information that has been gathered The "expert" I mentioned you rejected for not meeting the standards of CBS (a network with an incredibly low tolerance or understanding of the truth)…unlike yourself who simply posted nonsical rubbish based on nothing which is wasting people's time. It is interesting that you would be so insulting to a fellow Bears fan for no good reason. Particularly since anyone can read the same tripe you do. Why such unnecessary hostility?
Fisher started out being a QB and has gained a lot of weight in the last few years? If he has been anything other than a OL I'm sure you will let me know. He has risen from the initial Steele ratings and but did make his top 50 ratings unlike Johnson. And, as for as I know, he has started more games in the line even though it was against weak competition. So any advantage there may cancel out.

I have some concerns about Fisher as well for some of the same reasons and some different ones. Playing well against major competitors for a week or so does not translate to playing well consistently against the best for years.

I feel most confident about taking players who have long experience against the best competition. But we have seen excellent players from small schools as Bear fans. I would not automatically exclude taking a Fisher over an Alabama lineman but it would take a heck of a lot more than what I have seen so far to make that pick.


The “expert” you mentioned is far from an expert…just look at his rankings year in year out compared to what actually happen in the draft…as for hostility and insults it is neither to tell someone the truth…the truth is you are babbling on about something you clearly have no knowledge of… An "expert" is someone who gets paid for his opinions and research not a nameless staffer at CBS or someone you must approve. Hence, Steele is far more qualified than you in this regard no matter what you might think. It would not have mattered much who I quoted though or referenced. All I did in any case was reference Johnson and Fisher's standing with Steele prior to the season. He may be at the head of your bandwagon now for all I know.

Plenty of people disagree with things I say around here but most do not treat me as if I am the Enemy. You treat me with great hostility when little of it is called for. So I forget that Lewan is not coming out, that makes me ignorant and contemptible? Or I don't necessarily agree with your approved gurus at CBS so I should be insulted.


Not only that but I gave you a chance to do a little research into the guys you are forming an opinion on based on nothing…Fisher started out as a TE and had added 60lbs to play on the Oline…I shouldn’t have to let you know this if you are wanting to give an opinion on these guys you should have already done this research… I spend more time studying Shakespeare and Greek philosophy than pouring over all the alleged information purveyed by CBS about a draft several months down the road. I have stacks of draft magazines older than you are and most of the information within is as useless and/or false as that CBS is peddling.

While TE is not QB and plays on the Oline I appreciate the information. I hope providing it was not too painful.



Also this…

ChicagoAl wrote:
I would not automatically exclude taking a Fisher over an Alabama lineman but it would take a heck of a lot more than what I have seen so far to make that pick.


This basically sums up what you know.
No one "knows" much at this point wrt these picks which are huge gambles (even bigger than the typical first round picks). I generally won't go All In with a pair of tens and neither will Emery but you are welcome to. Who was correct about Lovie Smith getting canned?


An expert isn’t someone who gets paid for a job…an expert is someone whom excels at that job…which Steele never has…

It is ignorance to not know that a guy isn’t eligible for the draft or the journey that prospects have taken to get to where they are…especially when it is easy enough information to find…

Maybe you should stick to Shakespeare and Greek philosophy if you actually know about that because you don’t have the knowledge of the draft to form a proper opinion of these guys as you have proven in your recent posts…

Plenty of people know a lot about many of these prospects…everyone is a gamble in every draft however if you put in the work to research these guys like NFL teams do they have far less of a gamble than you blindly commenting on players…as for Lovie being sacked you were right he was…of course the reasons for that sacking were far from the ones you wanted it to be.
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IronMike84


Joined: 17 Jun 2009
Posts: 7120
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Rotoworld.com wrote:
...internet mock drafts, which have ridiculously become the measuring stick for where players are "supposed" to go.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7925
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
So the same applies to Eric Fisher then?...

Tell you what Al you keep scouting Taylor Lewan as a “mid-round” prospect who hasn’t even declared and let the rest of us get on with it.
Right, what you do is soo important. We all hang on your every word.


Not going to answer the question then? Not surprising considering you probably didn’t know Fisher had gone through the same kind of transition along with many other top OT prospects…

I have never claimed what I write to be important…if people read it then great if people don’t fair enough…there are many guys on this site who have an in-depth knowledge of the draft year in year out…we may not always agree or see the same things in players but we put the effort in to actually watch and learn about these prospects so if people do want to read our opinions they are formed based on information that has been gathered The "expert" I mentioned you rejected for not meeting the standards of CBS (a network with an incredibly low tolerance or understanding of the truth)…unlike yourself who simply posted nonsical rubbish based on nothing which is wasting people's time. It is interesting that you would be so insulting to a fellow Bears fan for no good reason. Particularly since anyone can read the same tripe you do. Why such unnecessary hostility?
Fisher started out being a QB and has gained a lot of weight in the last few years? If he has been anything other than a OL I'm sure you will let me know. He has risen from the initial Steele ratings and but did make his top 50 ratings unlike Johnson. And, as for as I know, he has started more games in the line even though it was against weak competition. So any advantage there may cancel out.

I have some concerns about Fisher as well for some of the same reasons and some different ones. Playing well against major competitors for a week or so does not translate to playing well consistently against the best for years.

I feel most confident about taking players who have long experience against the best competition. But we have seen excellent players from small schools as Bear fans. I would not automatically exclude taking a Fisher over an Alabama lineman but it would take a heck of a lot more than what I have seen so far to make that pick.


The “expert” you mentioned is far from an expert…just look at his rankings year in year out compared to what actually happen in the draft…as for hostility and insults it is neither to tell someone the truth…the truth is you are babbling on about something you clearly have no knowledge of… An "expert" is someone who gets paid for his opinions and research not a nameless staffer at CBS or someone you must approve. Hence, Steele is far more qualified than you in this regard no matter what you might think. It would not have mattered much who I quoted though or referenced. All I did in any case was reference Johnson and Fisher's standing with Steele prior to the season. He may be at the head of your bandwagon now for all I know.

Plenty of people disagree with things I say around here but most do not treat me as if I am the Enemy. You treat me with great hostility when little of it is called for. So I forget that Lewan is not coming out, that makes me ignorant and contemptible? Or I don't necessarily agree with your approved gurus at CBS so I should be insulted.


Not only that but I gave you a chance to do a little research into the guys you are forming an opinion on based on nothing…Fisher started out as a TE and had added 60lbs to play on the Oline…I shouldn’t have to let you know this if you are wanting to give an opinion on these guys you should have already done this research… I spend more time studying Shakespeare and Greek philosophy than pouring over all the alleged information purveyed by CBS about a draft several months down the road. I have stacks of draft magazines older than you are and most of the information within is as useless and/or false as that CBS is peddling.

While TE is not QB and plays on the Oline I appreciate the information. I hope providing it was not too painful.



Also this…

ChicagoAl wrote:
I would not automatically exclude taking a Fisher over an Alabama lineman but it would take a heck of a lot more than what I have seen so far to make that pick.


This basically sums up what you know.
No one "knows" much at this point wrt these picks which are huge gambles (even bigger than the typical first round picks). I generally won't go All In with a pair of tens and neither will Emery but you are welcome to. Who was correct about Lovie Smith getting canned?


An expert isn’t someone who gets paid for a job…an expert is someone whom excels at that job…which Steele never has… You apparently know nothing of the guy believing as you do that he has "draft rankings" to consult. And the perceived expertise is why an "expert" gets hired AS an expert. The Unknown Expert is useless to everyone.

It is ignorance to not know that a guy isn’t eligible for the draft or the journey that prospects have taken to get to where they are…especially when it is easy enough information to find… Of course, being unaware of any fact is ignorance. Is one this trivial in importance to any one of good will worth derision? Should I act like the biggest fool on the site should you be ignorant of something similar? Or merely kindly provide the information.

Maybe you should stick to Shakespeare and Greek philosophy if you actually know about that because you don’t have the knowledge of the draft to form a proper opinion of these guys as you have proven in your recent posts… A "proper opinion" being yours no doubt. And I have been called "arrogant". LoL. In any case there is plenty of time for the necessary information to be perused more thoroughly by all and sundry.

Plenty of people THINK they know a lot about many of these prospects…everyone is a gamble in every draft however if you put in the work to research these guys like NFL teams do they have far less of a gamble than you blindly commenting on players…as for Lovie being sacked you were right he was…of course the reasons for that sacking were far from the ones you wanted it to be. He was sacked for not knowing anymore about creating an effective offense than a hole in the wall, exactly why I said he should be fired and exactly why he will never be a head coach in the NFL again.
Steele does not have a draft evaluation record and is widely acknowledged as an "expert" by many people including the major award committees for college football and bookmaking services. His opinion of players at the beginning of the season of COLLEGE football players was what I referred to not any draft status. He has published a major college review magazine for a decade or so and gathers and enormous amount of information about the players as well as high school players being recruited.

Any objective person recognizes him as one of the major football evaluators and talent experts in the nation.

The majority of the information and opinions of the draft will be forthcoming within the next two months and those opinions will be widely varying including those of Fisher and
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7925
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IronMike84 wrote:
Let us take the plunge, it isn't as though anything is being interrupted now is it. This joint is so deserted I'm hearing echoes.
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 22723
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
So the same applies to Eric Fisher then?...

Tell you what Al you keep scouting Taylor Lewan as a “mid-round” prospect who hasn’t even declared and let the rest of us get on with it.
Right, what you do is soo important. We all hang on your every word.


Not going to answer the question then? Not surprising considering you probably didn’t know Fisher had gone through the same kind of transition along with many other top OT prospects…

I have never claimed what I write to be important…if people read it then great if people don’t fair enough…there are many guys on this site who have an in-depth knowledge of the draft year in year out…we may not always agree or see the same things in players but we put the effort in to actually watch and learn about these prospects so if people do want to read our opinions they are formed based on information that has been gathered The "expert" I mentioned you rejected for not meeting the standards of CBS (a network with an incredibly low tolerance or understanding of the truth)…unlike yourself who simply posted nonsical rubbish based on nothing which is wasting people's time. It is interesting that you would be so insulting to a fellow Bears fan for no good reason. Particularly since anyone can read the same tripe you do. Why such unnecessary hostility?
Fisher started out being a QB and has gained a lot of weight in the last few years? If he has been anything other than a OL I'm sure you will let me know. He has risen from the initial Steele ratings and but did make his top 50 ratings unlike Johnson. And, as for as I know, he has started more games in the line even though it was against weak competition. So any advantage there may cancel out.

I have some concerns about Fisher as well for some of the same reasons and some different ones. Playing well against major competitors for a week or so does not translate to playing well consistently against the best for years.

I feel most confident about taking players who have long experience against the best competition. But we have seen excellent players from small schools as Bear fans. I would not automatically exclude taking a Fisher over an Alabama lineman but it would take a heck of a lot more than what I have seen so far to make that pick.


The “expert” you mentioned is far from an expert…just look at his rankings year in year out compared to what actually happen in the draft…as for hostility and insults it is neither to tell someone the truth…the truth is you are babbling on about something you clearly have no knowledge of… An "expert" is someone who gets paid for his opinions and research not a nameless staffer at CBS or someone you must approve. Hence, Steele is far more qualified than you in this regard no matter what you might think. It would not have mattered much who I quoted though or referenced. All I did in any case was reference Johnson and Fisher's standing with Steele prior to the season. He may be at the head of your bandwagon now for all I know.

Plenty of people disagree with things I say around here but most do not treat me as if I am the Enemy. You treat me with great hostility when little of it is called for. So I forget that Lewan is not coming out, that makes me ignorant and contemptible? Or I don't necessarily agree with your approved gurus at CBS so I should be insulted.


Not only that but I gave you a chance to do a little research into the guys you are forming an opinion on based on nothing…Fisher started out as a TE and had added 60lbs to play on the Oline…I shouldn’t have to let you know this if you are wanting to give an opinion on these guys you should have already done this research… I spend more time studying Shakespeare and Greek philosophy than pouring over all the alleged information purveyed by CBS about a draft several months down the road. I have stacks of draft magazines older than you are and most of the information within is as useless and/or false as that CBS is peddling.

While TE is not QB and plays on the Oline I appreciate the information. I hope providing it was not too painful.



Also this…

ChicagoAl wrote:
I would not automatically exclude taking a Fisher over an Alabama lineman but it would take a heck of a lot more than what I have seen so far to make that pick.


This basically sums up what you know.
No one "knows" much at this point wrt these picks which are huge gambles (even bigger than the typical first round picks). I generally won't go All In with a pair of tens and neither will Emery but you are welcome to. Who was correct about Lovie Smith getting canned?


An expert isn’t someone who gets paid for a job…an expert is someone whom excels at that job…which Steele never has… You apparently know nothing of the guy believing as you do that he has "draft rankings" to consult. And the perceived expertise is why an "expert" gets hired AS an expert. The Unknown Expert is useless to everyone.

It is ignorance to not know that a guy isn’t eligible for the draft or the journey that prospects have taken to get to where they are…especially when it is easy enough information to find… Of course, being unaware of any fact is ignorance. Is one this trivial in importance to any one of good will worth derision? Should I act like the biggest fool on the site should you be ignorant of something similar? Or merely kindly provide the information.

Maybe you should stick to Shakespeare and Greek philosophy if you actually know about that because you don’t have the knowledge of the draft to form a proper opinion of these guys as you have proven in your recent posts… A "proper opinion" being yours no doubt. And I have been called "arrogant". LoL. In any case there is plenty of time for the necessary information to be perused more thoroughly by all and sundry.

Plenty of people THINK they know a lot about many of these prospects…everyone is a gamble in every draft however if you put in the work to research these guys like NFL teams do they have far less of a gamble than you blindly commenting on players…as for Lovie being sacked you were right he was…of course the reasons for that sacking were far from the ones you wanted it to be. He was sacked for not knowing anymore about creating an effective offense than a hole in the wall, exactly why I said he should be fired and exactly why he will never be a head coach in the NFL again.
Steele does not have a draft evaluation record and is widely acknowledged as an "expert" by many people including the major award committees for college football and bookmaking services. His opinion of players at the beginning of the season of COLLEGE football players was what I referred to not any draft status. He has published a major college review magazine for a decade or so and gathers and enormous amount of information about the players as well as high school players being recruited.

Any objective person recognizes him as one of the major football evaluators and talent experts in the nation.

The majority of the information and opinions of the draft will be forthcoming within the next two months and those opinions will be widely varying including those of Fisher and


Anyone who knows anything about the draft knows that this is simply untrue…but going off your posts on this subject it’s clear you don’t know anything about the draft so it shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone that you have this incorrect information...

Not only that but you are trying to use college rankings to understand the draft which isn’t possible…look at a guy like Kellen Moore…highly ranked college QB…UDFA in the NFL…if you are going to try and understand the draft use rankings by someone who understands the draft.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7925
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
So the same applies to Eric Fisher then?...

Tell you what Al you keep scouting Taylor Lewan as a “mid-round” prospect who hasn’t even declared and let the rest of us get on with it.
Right, what you do is soo important. We all hang on your every word.


Not going to answer the question then? Not surprising considering you probably didn’t know Fisher had gone through the same kind of transition along with many other top OT prospects…

I have never claimed what I write to be important…if people read it then great if people don’t fair enough…there are many guys on this site who have an in-depth knowledge of the draft year in year out…we may not always agree or see the same things in players but we put the effort in to actually watch and learn about these prospects so if people do want to read our opinions they are formed based on information that has been gathered The "expert" I mentioned you rejected for not meeting the standards of CBS (a network with an incredibly low tolerance or understanding of the truth)…unlike yourself who simply posted nonsical rubbish based on nothing which is wasting people's time. It is interesting that you would be so insulting to a fellow Bears fan for no good reason. Particularly since anyone can read the same tripe you do. Why such unnecessary hostility?
Fisher started out being a QB and has gained a lot of weight in the last few years? If he has been anything other than a OL I'm sure you will let me know. He has risen from the initial Steele ratings and but did make his top 50 ratings unlike Johnson. And, as for as I know, he has started more games in the line even though it was against weak competition. So any advantage there may cancel out.

I have some concerns about Fisher as well for some of the same reasons and some different ones. Playing well against major competitors for a week or so does not translate to playing well consistently against the best for years.

I feel most confident about taking players who have long experience against the best competition. But we have seen excellent players from small schools as Bear fans. I would not automatically exclude taking a Fisher over an Alabama lineman but it would take a heck of a lot more than what I have seen so far to make that pick.


The “expert” you mentioned is far from an expert…just look at his rankings year in year out compared to what actually happen in the draft…as for hostility and insults it is neither to tell someone the truth…the truth is you are babbling on about something you clearly have no knowledge of… An "expert" is someone who gets paid for his opinions and research not a nameless staffer at CBS or someone you must approve. Hence, Steele is far more qualified than you in this regard no matter what you might think. It would not have mattered much who I quoted though or referenced. All I did in any case was reference Johnson and Fisher's standing with Steele prior to the season. He may be at the head of your bandwagon now for all I know.

Plenty of people disagree with things I say around here but most do not treat me as if I am the Enemy. You treat me with great hostility when little of it is called for. So I forget that Lewan is not coming out, that makes me ignorant and contemptible? Or I don't necessarily agree with your approved gurus at CBS so I should be insulted.


Not only that but I gave you a chance to do a little research into the guys you are forming an opinion on based on nothing…Fisher started out as a TE and had added 60lbs to play on the Oline…I shouldn’t have to let you know this if you are wanting to give an opinion on these guys you should have already done this research… I spend more time studying Shakespeare and Greek philosophy than pouring over all the alleged information purveyed by CBS about a draft several months down the road. I have stacks of draft magazines older than you are and most of the information within is as useless and/or false as that CBS is peddling.

While TE is not QB and plays on the Oline I appreciate the information. I hope providing it was not too painful.



Also this…

ChicagoAl wrote:
I would not automatically exclude taking a Fisher over an Alabama lineman but it would take a heck of a lot more than what I have seen so far to make that pick.


This basically sums up what you know.
No one "knows" much at this point wrt these picks which are huge gambles (even bigger than the typical first round picks). I generally won't go All In with a pair of tens and neither will Emery but you are welcome to. Who was correct about Lovie Smith getting canned?


An expert isn’t someone who gets paid for a job…an expert is someone whom excels at that job…which Steele never has… You apparently know nothing of the guy believing as you do that he has "draft rankings" to consult. And the perceived expertise is why an "expert" gets hired AS an expert. The Unknown Expert is useless to everyone.

It is ignorance to not know that a guy isn’t eligible for the draft or the journey that prospects have taken to get to where they are…especially when it is easy enough information to find… Of course, being unaware of any fact is ignorance. Is one this trivial in importance to any one of good will worth derision? Should I act like the biggest fool on the site should you be ignorant of something similar? Or merely kindly provide the information.

Maybe you should stick to Shakespeare and Greek philosophy if you actually know about that because you don’t have the knowledge of the draft to form a proper opinion of these guys as you have proven in your recent posts… A "proper opinion" being yours no doubt. And I have been called "arrogant". LoL. In any case there is plenty of time for the necessary information to be perused more thoroughly by all and sundry.

Plenty of people THINK they know a lot about many of these prospects…everyone is a gamble in every draft however if you put in the work to research these guys like NFL teams do they have far less of a gamble than you blindly commenting on players…as for Lovie being sacked you were right he was…of course the reasons for that sacking were far from the ones you wanted it to be. He was sacked for not knowing anymore about creating an effective offense than a hole in the wall, exactly why I said he should be fired and exactly why he will never be a head coach in the NFL again.
Steele does not have a draft evaluation record and is widely acknowledged as an "expert" by many people including the major award committees for college football and bookmaking services. His opinion of players at the beginning of the season of COLLEGE football players was what I referred to not any draft status. He has published a major college review magazine for a decade or so and gathers and enormous amount of information about the players as well as high school players being recruited.

Any objective person recognizes him as one of the major football evaluators and talent experts in the nation.

The majority of the information and opinions of the draft will be forthcoming within the next two months and those opinions will be widely varying including those of Fisher and


Anyone who knows anything about the draft knows that this is simply untrue…but going off your posts on this subject it’s clearly you don’t know anything about the draft so it shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone that you have this incorrect information... Anyone who knows anything about the draft knows that Steele does NOT do drafts and IS one of the premier sources of information about these players.

Hence, your claim that his record with the draft is bad is false and likely just a lie. Since you never saw any draft rankings by him it is hard to claim that you have without lying.


Not only that but you are trying to use college rankings to understand the draft which isn’t possible…look at a guy like Kellen Moore…highly ranked college QB…UDFA in the NFL…if you are going to try and understand the draft use rankings by someone who understands the draft.
Evaluation starts with college players but DOES NOT END THERE nor have I pretended that it does. There was always doubt about Moore which is why he wasn't drafted at all much less highly. Signing him as an UDFA was just a no-lose afterthought much like our signing of James
Brown also considered draftable. It certainly does not mean either will stay in the league even another year. Nor does it change the fact that evaluations start with college careers.
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
Evaluation starts with college players but DOES NOT END THERE nor have I pretended that it does. There was always doubt about Moore which is why he wasn't drafted at all much less highly. Signing him as an UDFA was just a no-lose afterthought much like our signing of James
Brown also considered draftable. It certainly does not mean either will stay in the league even another year. Nor does it change the fact that evaluations start with college careers.


As usual you are completely missing the point…

Steele’s record of ranking college prospects and players is poor…it doesn’t stack up to the likes of Scout.com or the Rivals…hence the reason he has no relevance when it comes to how players will be ranked by pro teams when they come out of college…Steele has no background in scouting college players to the pros so why on earth are you brining him up when that is what we are talking about?...

There are far better sources for high school to college players than Steele and certainly far far better sources from college to the pros scouting…but you will stand by your belief that he holds some kind of relevance when it’s clear he doesn’t and continue to push ridiculous claims like just because a player like Barrett Jones went to Bama he must be better than the likes of Eric Fisher or Jonathan Cooper…which is laughable.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Evaluation starts with college players but DOES NOT END THERE nor have I pretended that it does. There was always doubt about Moore which is why he wasn't drafted at all much less highly. Signing him as an UDFA was just a no-lose afterthought much like our signing of James
Brown also considered draftable. It certainly does not mean either will stay in the league even another year. Nor does it change the fact that evaluations start with college careers.


As usual you are completely missing the point…

Steele’s record of ranking college prospects and players is poor…it doesn’t stack up to the likes of Scout.com or the Rivals…hence the reason he has no relevance when it comes to how players will be ranked by pro teams when they come out of college…Steele has no background in scouting college players to the pros so why on earth are you brining him up when that is what we are talking about?... Like unnamed CBS staffers you mean? LoL

There are far better sources for high school to college players than Steele and certainly far far better sources from college to the pros scouting…but you will stand by your belief that he holds some kind of relevance when it’s clear he doesn’t and continue to push ridiculous claims like just because a player like Barrett Jones went to Bama he must be better than the likes of Eric Fisher or Jonathan Cooper…which is laughable.
"...far better...", "it is clear" is just your opinion and easily countered with real quotes.

Having an opinion is fine just don't fall in love with it.

However, misrepresenting what I have said is NOT fine. Barrett Jones excellence was shown by his being recruited into the finest program in the country and excelling at three line positions while being on two championship team this is validation of his quality. This program consistently takes the best but cannot get all of them. Jones value is his incredible versatility not his alma mater. That is why I prefer him to Cooper and his experience is another reason why I prefer him to Fisher and Johnson.

The fact is that, if you are looking for Olinemen, Alabama is a great place to start and it is no accident that as many as three Olinemen could be drafted in the first round off that squad. And they will be immediate starters.
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Evaluation starts with college players but DOES NOT END THERE nor have I pretended that it does. There was always doubt about Moore which is why he wasn't drafted at all much less highly. Signing him as an UDFA was just a no-lose afterthought much like our signing of James
Brown also considered draftable. It certainly does not mean either will stay in the league even another year. Nor does it change the fact that evaluations start with college careers.


As usual you are completely missing the point…

Steele’s record of ranking college prospects and players is poor…it doesn’t stack up to the likes of Scout.com or the Rivals…hence the reason he has no relevance when it comes to how players will be ranked by pro teams when they come out of college…Steele has no background in scouting college players to the pros so why on earth are you brining him up when that is what we are talking about?... Like unnamed CBS staffers you mean? LoL

There are far better sources for high school to college players than Steele and certainly far far better sources from college to the pros scouting…but you will stand by your belief that he holds some kind of relevance when it’s clear he doesn’t and continue to push ridiculous claims like just because a player like Barrett Jones went to Bama he must be better than the likes of Eric Fisher or Jonathan Cooper…which is laughable.
"...far better...", "it is clear" is just your opinion and easily countered with real quotes.

Having an opinion is fine just don't fall in love with it.

However, misrepresenting what I have said is NOT fine. Barrett Jones excellence was shown by his being recruited into the finest program in the country and excelling at three line positions while being on two championship team this is validation of his quality. This program consistently takes the best but cannot get all of them. Jones value is his incredible versatility not his alma mater. That is why I prefer him to Cooper and his experience is another reason why I prefer him to Fisher and Johnson.

The fact is that, if you are looking for Olinemen, Alabama is a great place to start and it is no accident that as many as three Olinemen could be drafted in the first round off that squad. And they will be immediate starters.


To start with the CBS guys aren’t just staffers…its Rob Rang & Dane Brugler both of whom write for multiple websites including NFL.com…of course you would have known that had you taken the time to do a little research before sprouting off…

Barrett Jones being recruited from high school has nothing to do with him becoming a pro…Xavier Nixon was the #5 HS recruit in the country in 2009…does that mean he should be drafted in the 1st round of the 2013 NFL draft? Of course it doesn’t…because plenty of great HS players bust in college the same way as many great college players bust in the NFL…using HS rankings to evaluate the draft makes no sense…there is no way Jones is a better prospect than Cooper or Fisher.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The biggest factor being ignored is that Barrett Jones had Lis Franc surgery after the National Championship game and won't be able to workout before the draft.

That is a serious injury and surgery.
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Evaluation starts with college players but DOES NOT END THERE nor have I pretended that it does. There was always doubt about Moore which is why he wasn't drafted at all much less highly. Signing him as an UDFA was just a no-lose afterthought much like our signing of James
Brown also considered draftable. It certainly does not mean either will stay in the league even another year. Nor does it change the fact that evaluations start with college careers.


As usual you are completely missing the point…

Steele’s record of ranking college prospects and players is poor…it doesn’t stack up to the likes of Scout.com or the Rivals…hence the reason he has no relevance when it comes to how players will be ranked by pro teams when they come out of college…Steele has no background in scouting college players to the pros so why on earth are you brining him up when that is what we are talking about?... Like unnamed CBS staffers you mean? LoL

There are far better sources for high school to college players than Steele and certainly far far better sources from college to the pros scouting…but you will stand by your belief that he holds some kind of relevance when it’s clear he doesn’t and continue to push ridiculous claims like just because a player like Barrett Jones went to Bama he must be better than the likes of Eric Fisher or Jonathan Cooper…which is laughable.
"...far better...", "it is clear" is just your opinion and easily countered with real quotes.

Having an opinion is fine just don't fall in love with it.

However, misrepresenting what I have said is NOT fine. Barrett Jones excellence was shown by his being recruited into the finest program in the country and excelling at three line positions while being on two championship team this is validation of his quality. This program consistently takes the best but cannot get all of them. Jones value is his incredible versatility not his alma mater. That is why I prefer him to Cooper and his experience is another reason why I prefer him to Fisher and Johnson.

The fact is that, if you are looking for Olinemen, Alabama is a great place to start and it is no accident that as many as three Olinemen could be drafted in the first round off that squad. And they will be immediate starters.


To start with the CBS guys aren’t just staffers…its Rob Rang & Dane Brugler both of whom write for multiple websites including NFL.com…of course you would have known that had you taken the time to do a little research before sprouting off…

Barrett Jones being recruited from high school has nothing to do with him becoming a pro…Xavier Nixon was the #5 HS recruit in the country in 2009…does that mean he should be drafted in the 1st round of the 2013 NFL draft? Of course it doesn’t…because plenty of great HS players bust in college the same way as many great college players bust in the NFL…using HS rankings to evaluate the draft makes no sense…there is no way Jones is a better prospect than Cooper or Fisher.
Yeah, I'll bet the NFL hangs on every word from those two. No one was using high school rankings so that canard falls flat. I was merely pointing out the word of a LONG TIME talent evaluator as it stood at the beginning of the year. Then you started with falsehoods about a "record" which does not exist.
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
The biggest factor being ignored is that Barrett Jones had Lis Franc surgery after the National Championship game and won't be able to workout before the draft.

That is a serious injury and surgery.
I am not ignoring that and it does not affect my opinion of Jones. If it knocks him down a bit and allows us to trade down AND get him all the better. He dominated against ND even with that serious injury as he had all year well, all career actually. I hate to think of what he would have done without it.

I have a bias towards players who have consistently dominated the opposition (especially top flight opposition) rather than those who had a good year. This is a major reason why I prefer Jones.

Is that the right way? Maybe not but to each his own.

Would I be upset with any of these players? Not in the slightest.
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