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wayne87reggie


Joined: 03 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Save The Hero wrote:
wayne87reggie wrote:
Its not that hard to see that this was a great deal for Vonte!

Some things dont need thought about too much, good ol' commen sense is all it takes.

Im sorry, but not everybody has the time to set down and draw up perfectly worded contracts.

They just started rejecting deals because they thought they had already let too many through!! Went from one extreme to the other!


Not sure how it was a great deal. A great deal would offer much more long term security. Sure its a good deal since he is making more money this year, but he's guaranteed nothing after the 1st year. Can easily get cut every year after that.

So the ones who chose to be the GM don't have the time, but the ones running it do? They both chose to do this.

Why would that matter for extensions?


So lets go hypothetical here..

Say Vonte plays out contract, and gets hurt..he will make $1.12m and be a FA coming off an injury. Not good spot!

Lets say Vonte takes this extention, and get hurt...he will make $8.5m and is still under contract, much better... But lets even say we do cut him with extention, so he would turn down $7.4m in extra money to be in the exact same position he would be in if he didnt sign extention!!

HMM, like said probably should of had guarantees in there, but even with out it its still very obvious!! We have every intention on paying him his money. We are the ones taking the risk of him getting hurt, he is securing more oney this season, incase he gets hurt!
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scar988


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayne87reggie wrote:
Save The Hero wrote:
People have to realize that there is a lot on the plate for the mods running this. Instead of doing this, how about sending a PM reply to him explaining this or trying again.

Its easy to miss things and its easy to forget some things. Do we need to give them extra stress and flack for not being perfect?


Its not that hard to see that this was a great deal for Vonte!

Some things dont need thought about too much, good ol' commen sense is all it takes.

Im sorry, but not everybody has the time to set down and draw up perfectly worded contracts.

They just started rejecting deals because they thought they had already let too many through!! Went from one extreme to the other!
actually it was a horrible deal for Vonte. If I'm an agent and a team offers 2 years, I laugh in their face. Vonte deserves at least 4.
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CHOMP_CHOMP


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayne87reggie wrote:
Save The Hero wrote:
People have to realize that there is a lot on the plate for the mods running this. Instead of doing this, how about sending a PM reply to him explaining this or trying again.

Its easy to miss things and its easy to forget some things. Do we need to give them extra stress and flack for not being perfect?


Its not that hard to see that this was a great deal for Vonte!

Some things dont need thought about too much, good ol' commen sense is all it takes.

Im sorry, but not everybody has the time to set down and draw up perfectly worded contracts.

They just started rejecting deals because they thought they had already let too many through!! Went from one extreme to the other!


I think you are missing the point they are trying to make. These things do need a ton of thought. You have pretty much signed him to a one year extension.

The thing is, if he doesnt play to a pro bowl level, or he gets hurt. Then he is cut because the cap hit would be entirely too much to take on for a player with a question mark.

If you make the deal more balanced and not such a big jump in cap hit, im sure they would reconsider.
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Save The Hero


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
Spare me this bull. It's a locked thread buried halfway down the page. All the re-signings are going into the FFMD '13 Roster Cut/Trade/Sign/Restructure Updates thread.

Logic would dictate that if they were going to announce schedule changes, they would put it in the schedule or announcement threads.

Or hell, put it in the thread where they are posting re-signings. They did none of the above.

They didn't bother to post in War Rooms that they were going to stop accepting re-signings.

It was complete shiot communication. I don't care if the "majority" of teams knew it. They have no excuse for every team not knowing it other than their own screw-up.

Yes. They chose to take this on. If they had wanted or needed help, I would have been happy to oblige. I'm sure many others would have been.

For example, if they needed help on valuations or going over potential contracts, I'm sure myself, Scar or many other posters would have helped them with that.

They screwed up. They didn't communicate well and made a lot of questionable decisions.

And I'm livid right now. Don't care how many excuses are made. This is their screw-up.

The word evening does not mean 6 PM. It's best you stop arguing. Attributing a random number to the definition of a word and then claiming it's right is ridiculous.


Thats the resigning thread. Yeah for rules and updates on that logic would dictate checking there or the schedule thread. It has no mention on schedule thread so why not check there. Also its buried now when Marky has 100 threads and there are other things going on but was pretty evident before.

Majority of teams knew it because majority of teams do what they are supposed to do as a GM and check every thread for any update.

And you're saying if you had the job you wouldn't make any mistakes or forget something. Laughing Come on. All Im saying is no one is perfect.

What does evening mean to you? 10:45PM? It is common knowledge that evening is around 6PM.

It is best I stop arguing, but not because Im not right. There's just no reason for me to waste my time.
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scar988


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayne87reggie wrote:
Save The Hero wrote:
wayne87reggie wrote:
Its not that hard to see that this was a great deal for Vonte!

Some things dont need thought about too much, good ol' commen sense is all it takes.

Im sorry, but not everybody has the time to set down and draw up perfectly worded contracts.

They just started rejecting deals because they thought they had already let too many through!! Went from one extreme to the other!


Not sure how it was a great deal. A great deal would offer much more long term security. Sure its a good deal since he is making more money this year, but he's guaranteed nothing after the 1st year. Can easily get cut every year after that.

So the ones who chose to be the GM don't have the time, but the ones running it do? They both chose to do this.

Why would that matter for extensions?


So lets go hypothetical here..

Say Vonte plays out contract, and gets hurt..he will make $1.12m and be a FA coming off an injury. Not good spot!

Lets say Vonte takes this extention, and get hurt...he will make $8.5m and is still under contract, much better... But lets even say we do cut him with extention, so he would turn down $7.4m in extra money to be in the exact same position he would be in if he didnt sign extention!!

HMM, like said probably should of had guarantees in there, but even with out it its still very obvious!! We have every intention on paying him his money. We are the ones taking the risk of him getting hurt, he is securing more oney this season, incase he gets hurt!

he turned it down because someone on the FA market next year would still give him more money and years.
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wayne87reggie


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
wayne87reggie wrote:
So obviously we should of had the guarantee figure in there but, like I said we dont have all day to set around and draw up contract, we had rough start to one and it got submitted by our gm, but looking at the contract and the whole situation it should be clear we intend to pay his money.


Even if he got hurt this year and got cut in off season, he still made $2.4m more this year and ($3.75m additional SB $'s), and would be coming off injury as FA. Probably not best situation for him!!

Just think about it, thats all it takes!

With all due respect, get real. You're not the only one that doesn't have all day to sit around and do FFMD stuff. Attaching a guaranteed $ figure to a contract when you have oodles of cap space and "obviously intend" to keep the guy long-term isn't difficult and takes a whopping extra 10 seconds to do.

You seem to want the committee to just "make assumptions" when it's not their responsibility to do it. And yet it's alright for you to "make assumptions" that a player would be just dandy "trusting" a team to honor a contract in a cut-throat/what-have-you-done-for-me-lately industry like the NFL? There's two sides to this coin.

Sorry, but the "just think about it, that's all it takes" argument is weak. I could say the same thing right back to you.

And put it in context, a player who (based off of previous recent contracts had by other players on the open market - which he would hit if he didn't extend this year) would be in a position for a per-year-average of $10 million (see Brandon Carr contract), isn't going to risk that for single-year security and a $7 million bonus.

It's a simple solution - attach a guarantee to a certain portion of the dollar amount of the contract. It still is something that takes all of 5 seconds to do. You seem to be combating this purely on principle, which really there isn't one to be reasonably argued aside from that you seem to want others to be held to standards you are contending you aren't holding yourself to.


read above teach, your reasoning for everything dont make sense!

and I didnt submit the contract, our GM did(who I might add has been quite absent and isnt even a colts fan) I have no problem attaching a guarantee to it, but power trip on homie!!
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
Save The Hero wrote:
wayne87reggie wrote:
Its not that hard to see that this was a great deal for Vonte!

Some things dont need thought about too much, good ol' commen sense is all it takes.

Im sorry, but not everybody has the time to set down and draw up perfectly worded contracts.

They just started rejecting deals because they thought they had already let too many through!! Went from one extreme to the other!


Not sure how it was a great deal. A great deal would offer much more long term security. Sure its a good deal since he is making more money this year, but he's guaranteed nothing after the 1st year. Can easily get cut every year after that.

So the ones who chose to be the GM don't have the time, but the ones running it do? They both chose to do this.

Why would that matter for extensions?


He has plenty guaranteed after Year 1. He has 6 million in dead cap in Year 2 and 4.5 million in dead cap in Year 3.

It's nearly the same contract that Leon Hall accepted from the Bengals.

Davis would be stupid not take it.

That's not guaranteed, jrry, and you know it. You're telling me a player should feel secure in his job if the team can save $12 million in new money (and $7.5 million in cap space based upon what would otherwise be committed) by releasing him in year 2. The fact that the team has to eat a dead-money cap hit should mean squat in terms of "security" (or to the player at all aside from "monies available for further money from the team they can get") if the dead-money hit is less than what would be gained in cap space by cutting him. There would be more security even if the Y1 salary was closer to the Y2 salary and Y2 salary was smaller than it is now, because the cap-hit taken to release him would be a lot closer (or potentially even equal) to what it would be to just keep him.
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wayne87reggie


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scar988 wrote:
wayne87reggie wrote:
Save The Hero wrote:
People have to realize that there is a lot on the plate for the mods running this. Instead of doing this, how about sending a PM reply to him explaining this or trying again.

Its easy to miss things and its easy to forget some things. Do we need to give them extra stress and flack for not being perfect?


Its not that hard to see that this was a great deal for Vonte!

Some things dont need thought about too much, good ol' commen sense is all it takes.

Im sorry, but not everybody has the time to set down and draw up perfectly worded contracts.

They just started rejecting deals because they thought they had already let too many through!! Went from one extreme to the other!
actually it was a horrible deal for Vonte. If I'm an agent and a team offers 2 years, I laugh in their face. Vonte deserves at least 4.


It was 4yr 42m contract he just put the first 2 years in it!
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wayne87reggie


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking towards Vontae Davis extention, I think a good comparable contract would be Cromartie!
Quote:
Antonio Cromartie Defensive Back
8/1/2011: Signed a four-year, $32 million contract. The deal included a $5 million signing bonus. 2013: $7 million (+ $2.3 million roster bonus due 3/14 + $200,000 workout bonus), 2014: $4.3 million (+ $5 million roster bonus + $200,000 workout bonus), 2015: Free Agent


Vontae's current contract has 1yr $1,136,250

New Deal:

5yr 42m. $7.5m SB(including $5m roster bonus in 2014):

2013:$2m base, $1.5m SB, $3.5m cap hit
2014:$7m base, $1.5m SB, $5m RB, $13.5m cap hit
2015:$9m base, $1.5m SB, $10.5m cap hit
2016:$6m base, $1.5m SB, $7.5m cap hit
2017:$6m base, $1,5m SB, $7.5m cap hit
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scar988


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayne87reggie wrote:
scar988 wrote:
wayne87reggie wrote:
Save The Hero wrote:
People have to realize that there is a lot on the plate for the mods running this. Instead of doing this, how about sending a PM reply to him explaining this or trying again.

Its easy to miss things and its easy to forget some things. Do we need to give them extra stress and flack for not being perfect?


Its not that hard to see that this was a great deal for Vonte!

Some things dont need thought about too much, good ol' commen sense is all it takes.

Im sorry, but not everybody has the time to set down and draw up perfectly worded contracts.

They just started rejecting deals because they thought they had already let too many through!! Went from one extreme to the other!
actually it was a horrible deal for Vonte. If I'm an agent and a team offers 2 years, I laugh in their face. Vonte deserves at least 4.


It was 4yr 42m contract he just put the first 2 years in it!

well then. as long as it's structured right, I'd accept the 4 years 42M...
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Save The Hero


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayne87reggie wrote:
So lets go hypothetical here..

Say Vonte plays out contract, and gets hurt..he will make $1.12m and be a FA coming off an injury. Not good spot!

Lets say Vonte takes this extention, and get hurt...he will make $8.5m and is still under contract, much better... But lets even say we do cut him with extention, so he would turn down $7.4m in extra money to be in the exact same position he would be in if he didnt sign extention!!

HMM, like said probably should of had guarantees in there, but even with out it its still very obvious!! We have every intention on paying him his money. We are the ones taking the risk of him getting hurt, he is securing more oney this season, incase he gets hurt!


Thats the players and agents risk to take. If he has a good year and he hits the market he gets much more guaranteed money coming his way. The team signing the extension has to take the risk also.

You just said the contract offer was based on common sense, yet its really based on an assumption? Laughing
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wayne87reggie


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scar988 wrote:
wayne87reggie wrote:
scar988 wrote:
wayne87reggie wrote:
Save The Hero wrote:
People have to realize that there is a lot on the plate for the mods running this. Instead of doing this, how about sending a PM reply to him explaining this or trying again.

Its easy to miss things and its easy to forget some things. Do we need to give them extra stress and flack for not being perfect?


Its not that hard to see that this was a great deal for Vonte!

Some things dont need thought about too much, good ol' commen sense is all it takes.

Im sorry, but not everybody has the time to set down and draw up perfectly worded contracts.

They just started rejecting deals because they thought they had already let too many through!! Went from one extreme to the other!
actually it was a horrible deal for Vonte. If I'm an agent and a team offers 2 years, I laugh in their face. Vonte deserves at least 4.


It was 4yr 42m contract he just put the first 2 years in it!

well then. as long as it's structured right, I'd accept the 4 years 42M...


I have no proble changing language to say guaranteed $!

I didnt even see what got sent in till it was already sent in!!
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Save The Hero


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
That's not guaranteed, jrry, and you know it. You're telling me a player should feel secure in his job if the team can save $12 million in new money (and $7.5 million in cap space based upon what would otherwise be committed) by releasing him in year 2. The fact that the team has to eat a dead-money cap hit should mean squat in terms of "security" (or to the player at all aside from "monies available for further money from the team they can get") if the dead-money hit is less than what would be gained in cap space by cutting him. There would be more security even if the Y1 salary was closer to the Y2 salary and Y2 salary was smaller than it is now, because the cap-hit taken to release him would be a lot closer (or potentially even equal) to what it would be to just keep him.


This. Easily not a nobrainer contract.

And with this, I am really done.

No need to go through useless arguments.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle

Im sexy and Ian knows it.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayne87reggie wrote:
The LBC wrote:
wayne87reggie wrote:
So obviously we should of had the guarantee figure in there but, like I said we dont have all day to set around and draw up contract, we had rough start to one and it got submitted by our gm, but looking at the contract and the whole situation it should be clear we intend to pay his money.


Even if he got hurt this year and got cut in off season, he still made $2.4m more this year and ($3.75m additional SB $'s), and would be coming off injury as FA. Probably not best situation for him!!

Just think about it, thats all it takes!

With all due respect, get real. You're not the only one that doesn't have all day to sit around and do FFMD stuff. Attaching a guaranteed $ figure to a contract when you have oodles of cap space and "obviously intend" to keep the guy long-term isn't difficult and takes a whopping extra 10 seconds to do.

You seem to want the committee to just "make assumptions" when it's not their responsibility to do it. And yet it's alright for you to "make assumptions" that a player would be just dandy "trusting" a team to honor a contract in a cut-throat/what-have-you-done-for-me-lately industry like the NFL? There's two sides to this coin.

Sorry, but the "just think about it, that's all it takes" argument is weak. I could say the same thing right back to you.

And put it in context, a player who (based off of previous recent contracts had by other players on the open market - which he would hit if he didn't extend this year) would be in a position for a per-year-average of $10 million (see Brandon Carr contract), isn't going to risk that for single-year security and a $7 million bonus.

It's a simple solution - attach a guarantee to a certain portion of the dollar amount of the contract. It still is something that takes all of 5 seconds to do. You seem to be combating this purely on principle, which really there isn't one to be reasonably argued aside from that you seem to want others to be held to standards you are contending you aren't holding yourself to.


read above teach, your reasoning for everything dont make sense!

and I didnt submit the contract, our GM did(who I might add has been quite absent and isnt even a colts fan) I have no problem attaching a guarantee to it, but power trip on homie!!

Let me get this straight. So you're the only one whose entitled to come in here and start ranting and calling behaviors outlandish and "the biggest joke you've ever heard"? Anyone else who does it (or doesn't agree with your stance) is "on a power trip"?

You don't want a response tinged in aggression then don't make an initial post tinged with one.

My reasoning makes plenty of sense. If you feel it doesn't then please feel free to refute it with actual fact and evidence as opposed to just saying (I didn't write it, our GM did).

---------------------------------------------------
Non-Sequiter: Sorry, but this is the exact reason why very few of the veteran moderators who have run FFMD in the past have any desire to come back and run it again. The amount to which members feel it's their God-given right to complain and slander the work of others is sad. Would any of you be all that keen on volunteering your time to do a job where people are not only going to gripe but rather than seeking to find a solution, just air dirty laundry, and make fun of you?
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