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OakRaiders3828
Joined: 18 Aug 2007
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Location: Pennsylvania
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 Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Raidin wrote: | | ZoomWaffle wrote: |
Exactly. Stubborness can be the downfall of someone. This game is ever-evolving, every opponent is different, and every player on your team is different from the ones on your past teams. You have to be willing and able to adapt. |
Most great coaches don't change their system for their players though. Great organisations set their system in placed and build players towards that. Raiders yet again seem to want to do it [inappropriate/removed] ways. |
Then why did the 49ers change up their offense when Kaep came on? Why didn't the Redskins run the same offense with Cousins or Beck last year as they did with RG3? You adapt your scheme to fit your players strengths. It's no coincidence the Ravens are so much better with an oc that knows Flaccos strengths and calls his plays accordingly.
You can have a base scheme in place but you need to adapt to fit what your players do best and get the most out of them. Patriots might have a great scheme in place, but you think they used the two TE's as often as they did without gronk and Hernandez? Probably not but they created plays by the strength of the personnel they have at their disposal to get their most dangerous weapons on the field.
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Last edited by OakRaiders3828 on Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:00 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Raidin
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 4309
Location: Dublin
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| OakRaiders3828 wrote: | | Raidin wrote: | | ZoomWaffle wrote: |
Exactly. Stubborness can be the downfall of someone. This game is ever-evolving, every opponent is different, and every player on your team is different from the ones on your past teams. You have to be willing and able to adapt. |
Most great coaches don't change their system for their players though. Great organisations set their system in placed and build players towards that. Raiders yet again seem to want to do it [inappropriate/removed] ways. |
Then why did the 49ers change up their offense when Kaep came on? Why didn't the Redskins run the same offense with Cousins or Beck last year as they did with RG3? You adapt your scheme to fit your players strengths. It's no coincidence the Ravens are so much better with an oc that knows Flaccos strengths and calls his plays accordingly. |
Because those happened midway through the season. I'll agree in certain situations you adapt. Flacco hasn't played any better, he's always been excellent in the play-offs. Ravens/Flacco looked the exact same in regular season.
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OakRaiders3828
Joined: 18 Aug 2007
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Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Raidin wrote: | | OakRaiders3828 wrote: | | Raidin wrote: | | ZoomWaffle wrote: |
Exactly. Stubborness can be the downfall of someone. This game is ever-evolving, every opponent is different, and every player on your team is different from the ones on your past teams. You have to be willing and able to adapt. |
Most great coaches don't change their system for their players though. Great organisations set their system in placed and build players towards that. Raiders yet again seem to want to do it [inappropriate/removed] ways. |
Then why did the 49ers change up their offense when Kaep came on? Why didn't the Redskins run the same offense with Cousins or Beck last year as they did with RG3? You adapt your scheme to fit your players strengths. It's no coincidence the Ravens are so much better with an oc that knows Flaccos strengths and calls his plays accordingly. |
Because those happened midway through the season. I'll agree in certain situations you adapt. Flacco hasn't played any better, he's always been excellent in the play-offs. Ravens/Flacco looked the exact same in regular season. |
Eh Idk about that, ask any raven fan and they'll tell you what a difference switching coordinators made for that team, not only does he use their most valuable asset more effectively (run game) but having been Flaccos position coach all year, he knows his strengths and what type of offense he's best at and adjusted the offense accordingly.
If it made no difference they wouldn't have asked Caldwell to stay after firing Cameron if he was giving the same results.
I understand what you're saying though, and I hope Olson is around for a while so we can build according to what he liked to do.
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Raidin
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 4309
Location: Dublin
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| OakRaiders3828 wrote: | | Raidin wrote: | | OakRaiders3828 wrote: | | Raidin wrote: | | ZoomWaffle wrote: |
Exactly. Stubborness can be the downfall of someone. This game is ever-evolving, every opponent is different, and every player on your team is different from the ones on your past teams. You have to be willing and able to adapt. |
Most great coaches don't change their system for their players though. Great organisations set their system in placed and build players towards that. Raiders yet again seem to want to do it [inappropriate/removed] ways. |
Then why did the 49ers change up their offense when Kaep came on? Why didn't the Redskins run the same offense with Cousins or Beck last year as they did with RG3? You adapt your scheme to fit your players strengths. It's no coincidence the Ravens are so much better with an oc that knows Flaccos strengths and calls his plays accordingly. |
Because those happened midway through the season. I'll agree in certain situations you adapt. Flacco hasn't played any better, he's always been excellent in the play-offs. Ravens/Flacco looked the exact same in regular season. |
Eh Idk about that, ask any raven fan and they'll tell you what a difference switching coordinators made for that team, not only does he use their most valuable asset more effectively (run game) but having been Flaccos position coach all year, he knows his strengths and what type of offense he's best at and adjusted the offense accordingly.
If it made no difference they wouldn't have asked Caldwell to stay after firing Cameron if he was giving the same results.
I understand what you're saying though, and I hope Olson is around for a while so we can build according to what he liked to do. |
Caldwell knew the offense, terminology an playbook. They were hardly going to get some guy off the street who knew none of this. Generally when it comes to drafting a QB teams will change systems to suit him if they like the QB that much(1st round pick it's obvious they will). Pats didn't draft Gronk and Hernandez to be mainly blocking tight ends and just luckily found out they were excellent pass-catchers.
Obviously teams need to adapt and change it up to a certain extent but I think the foundations stay the same. Redskin and Ravens didnt suddenly switch blocking schemes for example, same with Pats. Either way we still have a very long way to go to be a decent team.
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oakdb36
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Quote: | Q: Obviously, the zone-blocking scheme last year did not work for McFadden, so you're saying you apply the offense to your personnel?
A: Yeah, no question. And what do they do well? What type of runners do we have? What type of blockers do we have up front? And I think you have to base your scheme…upon that, as opposed to coming in and saying, This is what I do and this is what I've done. You've got to take a look at your personnel and find out what they do best and try to build upon those strengths. |
nice he is saying all the right things |
Thing is if you look at the type of runners (namely McFadden) we have and the type of blockers, they don't seem to match. I guess something will have to be done personnel wise one way or another. And since Mcfadden seems to be in their plans, the changes will probably come on the offensive line.
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justwinbaby81
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| oakdb36 wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Quote: | Q: Obviously, the zone-blocking scheme last year did not work for McFadden, so you're saying you apply the offense to your personnel?
A: Yeah, no question. And what do they do well? What type of runners do we have? What type of blockers do we have up front? And I think you have to base your scheme…upon that, as opposed to coming in and saying, This is what I do and this is what I've done. You've got to take a look at your personnel and find out what they do best and try to build upon those strengths. |
nice he is saying all the right things |
Thing is if you look at the type of runners (namely McFadden) we have and the type of blockers, they don't seem to match. I guess something will have to be done personnel wise one way or another. And since Mcfadden seems to be in their plans, the changes will probably come on the offensive line. |
He had one hell of a year with Veldheer and Wiz on the line, so they are fine. As for the rest of em, personally IDGAF about a single one of them being here.
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Raidin
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 4309
Location: Dublin
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| justwinbaby81 wrote: | | oakdb36 wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Quote: | Q: Obviously, the zone-blocking scheme last year did not work for McFadden, so you're saying you apply the offense to your personnel?
A: Yeah, no question. And what do they do well? What type of runners do we have? What type of blockers do we have up front? And I think you have to base your scheme…upon that, as opposed to coming in and saying, This is what I do and this is what I've done. You've got to take a look at your personnel and find out what they do best and try to build upon those strengths. |
nice he is saying all the right things |
Thing is if you look at the type of runners (namely McFadden) we have and the type of blockers, they don't seem to match. I guess something will have to be done personnel wise one way or another. And since Mcfadden seems to be in their plans, the changes will probably come on the offensive line. |
He had one hell of a 6 games with Veldheer and Wiz on the line, so they are fine. As for the rest of em, personally IDGAF about a single one of them being here. |
fixed that for you.
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NCOUGHMAN
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 12598
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| oakdb36 wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Quote: | Q: Obviously, the zone-blocking scheme last year did not work for McFadden, so you're saying you apply the offense to your personnel?
A: Yeah, no question. And what do they do well? What type of runners do we have? What type of blockers do we have up front? And I think you have to base your scheme…upon that, as opposed to coming in and saying, This is what I do and this is what I've done. You've got to take a look at your personnel and find out what they do best and try to build upon those strengths. |
nice he is saying all the right things |
Thing is if you look at the type of runners (namely McFadden) we have and the type of blockers, they don't seem to match. I guess something will have to be done personnel wise one way or another. And since Mcfadden seems to be in their plans, the changes will probably come on the offensive line. |
i was just thinking about that maybe they are blowing smoke to increase trade value.
-dmac is pbs but goody and the guy from stan are zbs iirc
-wiz, jv and barnes are pbs and breezelle is zbs. coop can do both.
hmmm?
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NCOUGHMAN
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 12598
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Raidin wrote: | | justwinbaby81 wrote: | | oakdb36 wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Quote: | Q: Obviously, the zone-blocking scheme last year did not work for McFadden, so you're saying you apply the offense to your personnel?
A: Yeah, no question. And what do they do well? What type of runners do we have? What type of blockers do we have up front? And I think you have to base your scheme…upon that, as opposed to coming in and saying, This is what I do and this is what I've done. You've got to take a look at your personnel and find out what they do best and try to build upon those strengths. |
nice he is saying all the right things |
Thing is if you look at the type of runners (namely McFadden) we have and the type of blockers, they don't seem to match. I guess something will have to be done personnel wise one way or another. And since Mcfadden seems to be in their plans, the changes will probably come on the offensive line. |
He had one hell of a 6 games with Veldheer and Wiz on the line, so they are fine. As for the rest of em, personally IDGAF about a single one of them being here. |
fixed that for you. |
lol
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justwinbaby81
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 3080
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Raidin wrote: | | justwinbaby81 wrote: | | oakdb36 wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Quote: | Q: Obviously, the zone-blocking scheme last year did not work for McFadden, so you're saying you apply the offense to your personnel?
A: Yeah, no question. And what do they do well? What type of runners do we have? What type of blockers do we have up front? And I think you have to base your scheme…upon that, as opposed to coming in and saying, This is what I do and this is what I've done. You've got to take a look at your personnel and find out what they do best and try to build upon those strengths. |
nice he is saying all the right things |
Thing is if you look at the type of runners (namely McFadden) we have and the type of blockers, they don't seem to match. I guess something will have to be done personnel wise one way or another. And since Mcfadden seems to be in their plans, the changes will probably come on the offensive line. |
He had one hell of a 6 games with Veldheer and Wiz on the line, so they are fine. As for the rest of em, personally IDGAF about a single one of them being here. |
fixed that for you. |
Can they or can they not block in a PBS?
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OakRaiders3828
Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 9161
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | oakdb36 wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Quote: | Q: Obviously, the zone-blocking scheme last year did not work for McFadden, so you're saying you apply the offense to your personnel?
A: Yeah, no question. And what do they do well? What type of runners do we have? What type of blockers do we have up front? And I think you have to base your scheme…upon that, as opposed to coming in and saying, This is what I do and this is what I've done. You've got to take a look at your personnel and find out what they do best and try to build upon those strengths. |
nice he is saying all the right things |
Thing is if you look at the type of runners (namely McFadden) we have and the type of blockers, they don't seem to match. I guess something will have to be done personnel wise one way or another. And since Mcfadden seems to be in their plans, the changes will probably come on the offensive line. |
i was just thinking about that maybe they are blowing smoke to increase trade value.
-dmac is pbs but goody and the guy from stan are zbs iirc
-wiz, jv and barnes are pbs and breezelle is zbs. coop can do both.
hmmm? |
I think goodson can do both. IIRC he was in a PBS in Carolina.
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ZoomWaffle
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 4580
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| OakRaiders3828 wrote: | | Raidin wrote: | | ZoomWaffle wrote: |
Exactly. Stubborness can be the downfall of someone. This game is ever-evolving, every opponent is different, and every player on your team is different from the ones on your past teams. You have to be willing and able to adapt. |
Most great coaches don't change their system for their players though. Great organisations set their system in placed and build players towards that. Raiders yet again seem to want to do it [inappropriate/removed] ways. |
Then why did the 49ers change up their offense when Kaep came on? Why didn't the Redskins run the same offense with Cousins or Beck last year as they did with RG3? You adapt your scheme to fit your players strengths. It's no coincidence the Ravens are so much better with an oc that knows Flaccos strengths and calls his plays accordingly.
You can have a base scheme in place but you need to adapt to fit what your players do best and get the most out of them. Patriots might have a great scheme in place, but you think they used the two TE's as often as they did without gronk and Hernandez? Probably not but they created plays by the strength of the personnel they have at their disposal to get their most dangerous weapons on the field. |
+1
I wasnt saying an OC should drastically change his entire scheme and playbook to fit his players, but he should be able to adapt somewhat and find ways to utilize his playmakers in a way that will be most beneficial- something Knapp was never able to do. He didnt have to completely change everything, but he should have realized that their best player was useless in the scheme and something had to be altered, even if just a little bit.
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raidr4life
Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 2177
Location: Fresno, California
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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Just confirming why I thought it was important to have our OC for senior bowl practices.
[ Raiders officially hire Greg Olson as OC]
"The key for me is that he's here and he's able to evaluate the players and get a good feel for the players so that when we go back and begin to go through the evaluation process with him, with the players we have on the roster right now, you can kind of have a vision for where some of those guys fit it."
Some here thought that having the OC before hand was not important,
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Raidin
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 4309
Location: Dublin
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| justwinbaby81 wrote: | | Raidin wrote: | | justwinbaby81 wrote: | | oakdb36 wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Quote: | Q: Obviously, the zone-blocking scheme last year did not work for McFadden, so you're saying you apply the offense to your personnel?
A: Yeah, no question. And what do they do well? What type of runners do we have? What type of blockers do we have up front? And I think you have to base your scheme…upon that, as opposed to coming in and saying, This is what I do and this is what I've done. You've got to take a look at your personnel and find out what they do best and try to build upon those strengths. |
nice he is saying all the right things |
Thing is if you look at the type of runners (namely McFadden) we have and the type of blockers, they don't seem to match. I guess something will have to be done personnel wise one way or another. And since Mcfadden seems to be in their plans, the changes will probably come on the offensive line. |
He had one hell of a 6 games with Veldheer and Wiz on the line, so they are fine. As for the rest of em, personally IDGAF about a single one of them being here. |
fixed that for you. |
Can they or can they not block in a PBS? |
Not sure, they sucked when Bush was in.
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justwinbaby81
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 3080
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Raidin wrote: | | justwinbaby81 wrote: | | Raidin wrote: | | justwinbaby81 wrote: | | oakdb36 wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Quote: | Q: Obviously, the zone-blocking scheme last year did not work for McFadden, so you're saying you apply the offense to your personnel?
A: Yeah, no question. And what do they do well? What type of runners do we have? What type of blockers do we have up front? And I think you have to base your scheme…upon that, as opposed to coming in and saying, This is what I do and this is what I've done. You've got to take a look at your personnel and find out what they do best and try to build upon those strengths. |
nice he is saying all the right things |
Thing is if you look at the type of runners (namely McFadden) we have and the type of blockers, they don't seem to match. I guess something will have to be done personnel wise one way or another. And since Mcfadden seems to be in their plans, the changes will probably come on the offensive line. |
He had one hell of a 6 games with Veldheer and Wiz on the line, so they are fine. As for the rest of em, personally IDGAF about a single one of them being here. |
fixed that for you. |
Can they or can they not block in a PBS? |
Not sure, they sucked when Bush was in. |
Or maybe Bush is overrated? Or maybe the offense line has three others on it? Just stop dude
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