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3-4 player transition thread
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Dropkick_pride


Joined: 18 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:12 pm    Post subject: 3-4 player transition thread Reply with quote

(thought it may be nice to make a space for people to add their thoughts to group some of this similar threads together...)




end of '13 Cleveland Browns DEFENSE Free Agent list
- per Rotoworld as a couple weeks ago.
- DBs excluded for the sake of simplicity.

UFAs
LB, Scott Fujita (34 in April)
LB, Kaluka Maiava
DE, Juqua Parker (35 in May)

ERFAs
DE, Emmanuel Stephens

additional UFAs from practice squad
DE, Hall Davis
LB, Ricky Elmore


4-3...
DEs: Sheard, Parker, Stephens, Sanford, English
DTs: Rubin, Hughes, Taylor, Winn, Kitchen
LBs: Jackson, Gocong, Johnson, Carder, Fort, Robertson, Acho, Fujita, Maiava, Elmore, Moten (new addition to the team in Dec!?!)


focus on the DL....
- Hughes 6-2 320. used to play DE and TE, but now is a large DT... many "professionals" didnt think highly of him coming into the draft but he has been a stud. Could be an excellent 34 anchor shutting down the run or at worse a great rotational NT.
- Kitchen 6-1 330. massive... benched 225lbs 35 times... looked good this year for his opportunities. could be an excellent rotational NT.
- Parker is going to 35. Im not including him.
- Rubin 6-2 330. in the 34 he is a great NT.... this we know.
- Rucker 6-3 280. I dont think he fits at all, plus his contract, and age... bye. looks like I was correct in this one.
- Sanford 6-2 280. Mangini gave him his only shot in the NFL and all the coaches reportedly liked him....
- Taylor 6-3 335. draft profile projected him as a 43 or 34, cbs compared him to the Jets Jenkins... NT? DT? 34 DE? He could play any of these...
- Winn 6-4 295. not a traditional DT or DE... played in 34 base sets at Boise and could rotate in on passing downs. has been really good for the browns his rookie year.

focus on the LB...
- Sheard.....
- English could have been a perfect 34 olb, but has been killed by injuries
- Jackson we all know used to play ILB in the 3-4
- Gocong played ILB in he 34 earlier, but many nfl and media people thought he would be a perfect OLB given his college pass rush success.
- JMJ played mlb inside at Neveda, and looked pretty darn good at OLB for the browns.
- Carder played TCU' 4-2-5, and projected to ILB. Thought much higher of than his draft status...
- Fort was a beast inside at Northern Iowa who ran numerous forations including 34s from looking at highlight reels.
- Robertson is a former safety coverted to LB. made tons of tackles in college, made plays for the browns last year. Fast. Hard hitter. Played OLB here.
- Acho was a 43 olb from texas...
- Fujita Ill skip
- Miavia has played all LB spots in 43.
- Moten was a LB for Maryland where ive see him line up both inside and out. played one game for Phi and 10 for Ind.
- Elmore is interesting as it looks like he has played or been listed as 43DE, 43OLB, and 34 OLB!!
- Stephens has always played weak side de from what I can find. Since he was on the smaller side for nfl de, he was projected as a 34 OLB.

new 3-4 front 7 ???

DE:
NT:
DE:

OLB:
ILB:
ILB:
OLB:
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bulldog


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 3-4 player transition thread Reply with quote

DE: Rucker, Winn
DE: Rubin, Hughes, Kitchen
DE: Taylor, Sanford

OLB: ________, Stephens
ILB: DQ, Fort, Carter
ILB: Gocong, JMJ, Robertson
OLB: Sheard, _________
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Dropkick_pride


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 3-4 player transition thread Reply with quote

DE: Taylor, Rucker
NT: Rubin, Kitchen
DE: Hughes, Winn

OLB: Sheard, Robertson
ILB: JMJ, Carder
ILB: Jackson, Fort
OLB: Gocong, Elmore



1) I think Rucker will get cut/traded, and a 34 DE will be brought in via FA or the draft.
2) If the Browns draft OLB in the 1st Gocong plays ILB, if not he plays OLB.
3) Elmore could be gone easily and Robertson may be inside, and replaced.
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shoffma1999


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:56 pm    Post subject: Re: 3-4 player transition thread Reply with quote

I could see us drafting a pass rushing OLB with our first pick, likely someone like Jarvis Jones. Then our defense will look like this:

LDE: Phil Taylor, Devin Taylor (4th Round Pick)
NT: Ahtyba Rubin, John Hughes
RDE: Billy Winn, Frostee Rucker

LOLB: Jabaal Sheard, Ricky Elmore/Emmanuel Stephens
SILB: James Michael-Johnson, Chris Gocong, L.J. Fort
WILB: D'Qwell Jackson, Craig Robertson
ROLB: Jarvis Jones (1st round pick), Emmanuel Acho

LCB: Joe Haden, Buster Skrine
FS: Jarius Byrd (FA pickup), Usama Young
SS: T.J. Ward, Ray Ventrone
RCB: Leon McFadden (3rd round pick), Sheldon Brown, Trevin Wade
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Dropkick_pride


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 3-4 player transition thread Reply with quote

shoffma1999 wrote:
I could see us drafting a pass rushing OLB with our first pick, likely someone like Jarvis Jones. Then our defense will look like this:

LDE: Phil Taylor, Devin Taylor (4th Round Pick)
NT: Ahtyba Rubin, John Hughes
RDE: Billy Winn, Frostee Rucker

LOLB: Jabaal Sheard, Ricky Elmore/Emmanuel Stephens
SILB: James Michael-Johnson, Chris Gocong, L.J. Fort
WILB: D'Qwell Jackson, Craig Robertson
ROLB: Jarvis Jones (1st round pick), Emmanuel Acho



Kitchen did a good job this year and could be an excellent back up NT. I think Hughes can be an excellent 34DE to shut down the run and eat up blocks. Heck if anybody needs replaced its Rucker. I dont see him fitting or wanting to fit at all. I honestly think Star could be possible at #6 depending on their evaluate the DL.

OLB is a definite possiblity... However, the Cards OLBs are bigger and their ILBs are smaller... Any of the top 3-4 OLBs are possible at #6... , or Gocong could stay on the edge(see below article) opposite Sheard with any mixture of the guys on the inside....

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/03/13/secret-superstar-chris-gocong-cleveland-browns/
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roger murdock


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I prefer the 3-4 defense and think we have just as good personale to run it as we do a 4-3. Basically guys like Winn will get more PT than JMJ and Robinson. Sheard/Taylor/Rubins snaps wont be affected that much. I think TJ Ward has the opportunity to really break out in this defense.

Gimme Werner or Milliner at 6!
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Dropkick_pride


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

roger murdock wrote:
I prefer the 3-4 defense and think we have just as good personale to run it as we do a 4-3. Basically guys like Winn will get more PT than JMJ and Robinson. Sheard/Taylor/Rubins snaps wont be affected that much. I think TJ Ward has the opportunity to really break out in this defense.

Gimme Werner or Milliner at 6!



one of those guys might move into one of the ILB starting positions next to DQ....


Im not a fan of werner at all, Milliner would be great but I think 6 is too high for him.
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Dropkick_pride


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frostee Rucker will be 30 next season. He has never played in a 34 always a 43 DE, and came to CLE to start at 43 DE. He is 6-3 280 so he would be the smallest of the 34 DL group. He is one year into a FIVE year 20.5 million dollar contract...

I highly doubt he would be a starting 34 DE on the team. Plus, considering he came to the Browns to be a starter instead of backup/rotational player in a 43 Im not even sure he will want to stay in Cleveland as a backup in a system he doesnt fit. Add in that contract I wonder if he gets cut if the Browns cant trade him quickly.
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Entropy


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dropkick_pride wrote:
roger murdock wrote:
I prefer the 3-4 defense and think we have just as good personale to run it as we do a 4-3. Basically guys like Winn will get more PT than JMJ and Robinson. Sheard/Taylor/Rubins snaps wont be affected that much. I think TJ Ward has the opportunity to really break out in this defense.

Gimme Werner or Milliner at 6!



one of those guys might move into one of the ILB starting positions next to DQ....


Im not a fan of werner at all, Milliner would be great but I think 6 is too high for him.


Are you talking about a few spaces too high, or like a bunch of spaces too high?

He's the best rated DB in the draft class as of right now, so I certainly can't see anything wrong with a team taking him even a few spaces before #6.
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Dropkick_pride


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
roger murdock wrote:
I prefer the 3-4 defense and think we have just as good personale to run it as we do a 4-3. Basically guys like Winn will get more PT than JMJ and Robinson. Sheard/Taylor/Rubins snaps wont be affected that much. I think TJ Ward has the opportunity to really break out in this defense.

Gimme Werner or Milliner at 6!



one of those guys might move into one of the ILB starting positions next to DQ....


Im not a fan of werner at all, Milliner would be great but I think 6 is too high for him.


Are you talking about a few spaces too high, or like a bunch of spaces too high?

He's the best rated DB in the draft class as of right now, so I certainly can't see anything wrong with a team taking him even a few spaces before #6.


He is the best rated, but I dont think he is as good as Haden.... at least not from what Ive seen when watching him. He will be drafted high just because DBs are highly valued, but I think the next 3, or 4 CBs could be just as good. Milliner might be drafted top 10, but I would be perfectly happy trading down later in the first and picking up Rhodes, Banks, or maybe Poyer and potentially getting an extra pick to use on a FS?

(yes, the one year starting worries me as well)
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Entropy


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dropkick_pride wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
roger murdock wrote:
I prefer the 3-4 defense and think we have just as good personale to run it as we do a 4-3. Basically guys like Winn will get more PT than JMJ and Robinson. Sheard/Taylor/Rubins snaps wont be affected that much. I think TJ Ward has the opportunity to really break out in this defense.

Gimme Werner or Milliner at 6!



one of those guys might move into one of the ILB starting positions next to DQ....


Im not a fan of werner at all, Milliner would be great but I think 6 is too high for him.


Are you talking about a few spaces too high, or like a bunch of spaces too high?

He's the best rated DB in the draft class as of right now, so I certainly can't see anything wrong with a team taking him even a few spaces before #6.


He is the best rated, but I dont think he is as good as Haden.... at least not from what Ive seen when watching him. He will be drafted high just because DBs are highly valued, but I think the next 3, or 4 CBs could be just as good. Milliner might be drafted top 10, but I would be perfectly happy trading down later in the first and picking up Rhodes, Banks, or maybe Poyer and potentially getting an extra pick to use on a FS?

(yes, the one year starting worries me as well)


I see, and I hope you're right since that would be better for us to have such freedom to trade down and fill 2 spots.

I'm just not sure that has a good chance of happening.

And hey, let's all hope we clearly fill either a CB or the FS spot (or both) in free agency and don't even need to worry about it.
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bungleodeon


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dropkick_pride wrote:


but I would be perfectly happy trading down later in the first
I haven't see a single fan base for a team currently drafting in the top 10 that isn't hoping they can trade down. I have a feeling no one in the top 10 is going to be moving down, and if they do, they won't be getting the same value that we normally see for teams moving out of the top 10.
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bruceb


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bungleodeon wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:


but I would be perfectly happy trading down later in the first
I haven't see a single fan base for a team currently drafting in the top 10 that isn't hoping they can trade down. I have a feeling no one in the top 10 is going to be moving down, and if they do, they won't be getting the same value that we normally see for teams moving out of the top 10.


Agree, especially re the value chart. Out the window this year.
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Dropkick_pride


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Browns will have multiple excellent options at #6!!

- Star may be there, which would give the Browns a scary DL.

- Numerous OLB prospects, just depends on which one they like best out of who is still available. Moore, Jordan, Mingo, etc.

- Te'o may be there, and if he does great at the combine he may be a good pick.

- Milliner may be there, and filling maybe the biggest need on the defense is not a bad thing.

- FS... no. nope. nada. zilch. nein. nyet.

- trade down and pick up a few extra extra picks would be great, but if not I do not see a problem.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would check and see if Kerry Rhoades still has gas left in the tank.

Familiar with Horton.

One time pro bowler
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