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Browns hire Ray Horton as DC
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candyman93


Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 42484
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gocong was used as a ILB in the 3-4
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Dropkick_pride


Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 10805
Location: C-bus
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
Gocong was used as a ILB in the 3-4


I think I just said that.... page cut off maybe?

I spent some time last night reading old news articles on Gocong from the draft, his time at Phili and then when he came to the browns. From everything I have read there is nothing that shows me that Gocong might not be better on the outside rushing the passer, then in the middle as a run stopper.
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candyman93


Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 42484
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dropkick_pride wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
Gocong was used as a ILB in the 3-4


I think I just said that.... page cut off maybe?

I spent some time last night reading old news articles on Gocong from the draft, his time at Phili and then when he came to the browns. From everything I have read there is nothing that shows me that Gocong might not be better on the outside rushing the passer, then in the middle as a run stopper.


You didn't have to read anything. When he was in our 3-4 he was primarily a run stuffer. Show me his pass rushing prowess in the NFL and not what he did in college
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Dropkick_pride


Joined: 18 Jan 2009
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Location: C-bus
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
Gocong was used as a ILB in the 3-4


I think I just said that.... page cut off maybe?

I spent some time last night reading old news articles on Gocong from the draft, his time at Phili and then when he came to the browns. From everything I have read there is nothing that shows me that Gocong might not be better on the outside rushing the passer, then in the middle as a run stopper.


You didn't have to read anything. When he was in our 3-4 he was primarily a run stuffer. Show me his pass rushing prowess in the NFL and not what he did in college


Well if you dont need to read then you obviously know everything there is to know....
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candyman93


Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 42484
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dropkick_pride wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
Gocong was used as a ILB in the 3-4


I think I just said that.... page cut off maybe?

I spent some time last night reading old news articles on Gocong from the draft, his time at Phili and then when he came to the browns. From everything I have read there is nothing that shows me that Gocong might not be better on the outside rushing the passer, then in the middle as a run stopper.


You didn't have to read anything. When he was in our 3-4 he was primarily a run stuffer. Show me his pass rushing prowess in the NFL and not what he did in college


Well if you dont need to read then you obviously know everything there is to know....


Yup, glad you're catching on
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Dawgpoun8017


Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 12312
Location: Waterloo,NY
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wanna throw a name out that we already have that has a connection to Horton, Emmanuel Acho? Horton coached his brother in Arizona and turned him into a pretty decent 3-4 OLB. maybe he can do the same with EA
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 2736
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:
MarkPrice25 wrote:
Jackson has played the 3-4 before (admittedly leaving a lot to be desired. Hopefully he's improved)


I've been meaning to talk about this.

DQ was drafted in 2006. This is what the rest of the defensive front 7 looked like that we was playing with. I'm going to include "stops" for each LB after their name, just to paint a picture, but I can only do this for 2008.

2006
DE- Alvin McKinley
NT- Ted Washington
DE- Orpheus Roye
OLB- Kam Wimbley
MLB- DQ
MLB- Andra Davis
OLB- Willie McGinest

2007
DE- Robaire Smith
NT- Shaun Smith
DE- Orpheus Roye
OLB- Kam Wimbley
MLB- DQ
MLB- Andra Davis
OLB- Willie McGinest

2008
DE- Corey Williams
NT- Shaun Rogers
DE- Shaun Smith
OLB- Kam Wimbley (27)
MLB- DQ (55)
MLB- Andra Davis (34)
OLB- Willie McGinest (33)

My point? DQ was surrounded by a bunch of crap the last time he played in a 34. Even with all that crap around him, in 2008, DQ ranked 17th among ALL inside LB's in run stop %.


If I'm not mistaken, run stop % is calculated from opportunities. It seems that in 2008 my biggest criticism with DQ was that he was either out of position himself or taken (blocked) out of the play by an offensive player pretty often. I don't think that shows up in stop %.

He's always been a pretty decent tackler, however. So it's no surprise that when he's not taken out of a play, he does well.

But yeah, Davis, Williams, Rogers, and Smith weren't good for the scheme, Wimbley was a pretty poor run defender, and McGinest was 37 at the time.
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green24


Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 47651
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
green24 wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
We need a #2 CB.

Buster Skrine will be fine as a #3 CB. You can get any random dude as a #4z

I could see Kyle Wilson being made available. Would you trade 3rd/4th round value for him?


Is he a #2 CB?

He served in that role this year after Revis tore his ACL. He is normally the Jets #3 CB, but only because he is on the same team as two of the top CBs in the NFL. He was a first round pick in 2010.
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Dawgpoun8017


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Location: Waterloo,NY
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kyle Wilson was the guy that Ryan and Mangini wanted to take over Haden
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bulldog


Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 5840
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
bulldog wrote:
MarkPrice25 wrote:
Jackson has played the 3-4 before (admittedly leaving a lot to be desired. Hopefully he's improved)


I've been meaning to talk about this.

DQ was drafted in 2006. This is what the rest of the defensive front 7 looked like that we was playing with. I'm going to include "stops" for each LB after their name, just to paint a picture, but I can only do this for 2008.

2006
DE- Alvin McKinley
NT- Ted Washington
DE- Orpheus Roye
OLB- Kam Wimbley
MLB- DQ
MLB- Andra Davis
OLB- Willie McGinest

2007
DE- Robaire Smith
NT- Shaun Smith
DE- Orpheus Roye
OLB- Kam Wimbley
MLB- DQ
MLB- Andra Davis
OLB- Willie McGinest

2008
DE- Corey Williams
NT- Shaun Rogers
DE- Shaun Smith
OLB- Kam Wimbley (27)
MLB- DQ (55)
MLB- Andra Davis (34)
OLB- Willie McGinest (33)

My point? DQ was surrounded by a bunch of crap the last time he played in a 34. Even with all that crap around him, in 2008, DQ ranked 17th among ALL inside LB's in run stop %.


If I'm not mistaken, run stop % is calculated from opportunities. It seems that in 2008 my biggest criticism with DQ was that he was either out of position himself or taken (blocked) out of the play by an offensive player pretty often. I don't think that shows up in stop %.

He's always been a pretty decent tackler, however. So it's no surprise that when he's not taken out of a play, he does well.

But yeah, Davis, Williams, Rogers, and Smith weren't good for the scheme, Wimbley was a pretty poor run defender, and McGinest was 37 at the time.


A "stop", by PFF standards is tackle that stopped the offensw for less than;
40% of required yards on first down
60% on second down
Short of the first down marker on 3rd and 4th down.

And DQ isn't the type to shed blockers, I'm not defending that. He's still a productive LB and I think he is being unfairly judged from his days in the 34 when he was surrounded by suck.

Even Ray Lewis admitted having a hard time behind a bad DL.
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Dropkick_pride


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dawgpoun8017 wrote:
Kyle Wilson was the guy that Ryan and Mangini wanted to take over Haden


did he suck [inappropriate/removed] this year?
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green24


Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 47651
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dropkick_pride wrote:
Dawgpoun8017 wrote:
Kyle Wilson was the guy that Ryan and Mangini wanted to take over Haden


did he suck [inappropriate/removed] this year?

He wasn't that bad. He's not close to Revis or Cromartie, but I think he can be a solid #2. Still a bit of a disappointment for a first round pick.
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Productiondawg


Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Posts: 409
Location: Cincinnati
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
New Browns defensive coordinator Ray Horton isnít worried that he runs a 3-4 and the personnel has been acquired for a 4-3; ďIím a coach of men, whether itís 3-4, 4-3, 5-5, I donít care,Ē Horton said. ďIím going to coach men.Ē


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/19/saturday-one-liners-13/

Just thought if throw that out there.
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cthomas09


Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 8077
Location: ohio
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am excited he is here. He seems like he has a lot of fire and a big chip on his shoulder. I wonder where richard will get a job?
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younggun1273


Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 7212
Location: Tempe
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats on the Horton hire. All of us Cardinals fans were disappointed to see him leave (and disappointed he wasn't named HC...). He will be a good hire for you guys and his players played hard for him. One of the things he preaches is that for his DBs, he wants big guys who can cover and smaller guys who can hit. If you are a DB and cannot tackle, than you will not be seeing playing time.

He primarily ran a 2-5-4 in AZ, but I saw that he is open to fitting his scheme to his players' strengths.

Good luck the rest of the way.
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