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EliteTexan80
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
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 Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| Apollo Stallion wrote: | | Marco79 wrote: | | I also wouldn't mind Geno Smith in the end of the 1st. |
Funny how quickly we forget the Dolphins laughable pick of Pat White in 2nd round 2009. |
I guess I don't understand this comparison. Geno Smith is a pretty refined QB, with some good skills throwing the ball, as he displayed with back to back 4,000 passing seasons and two seasons with 30+ TD tosses. White always was a run-first guy, you can see that with his career best passing numbers equating out to 1,800 yards and 21 TDs.. White's career passing numbers (a four year starter at WVA) barely compare to Smith's final two seasons as the Mountaineers' QB. You don't compile a 73:13 TD:INT ratio by being the same QB that White was.
If this is based on the two guys going to the same college - welp, someone better tell the Colts they're doomed to have another Trent Edwards on their hands with that Luck kid.
The only thing that is laughable is thinking that Smith = White. A simple crunch of the numbers shows this is clearly not the case.
| Quote: | | Took all of one offseason for DCs to adapt and scheme the Wildcat out of existence which made this pick all that much more ridiculous. |
Again - thinking that these two QBs are in the same stratosphere is probably moreso of a flawed argument, as White made his name as a runner (two 1,200 rushing yard seasons in a four year career) while Smith set the bar with his rushing at - wait for it - 217 yards on 106 carries, which comes out to a little over two yards per carry.
| Quote: | | The pistol won't go as quick as the Wildcat, but we also already saw RGIII go down, and lets see what a full season of hits do to Wilson and Kaepernick. |
...someone correct me if I'm wrong (and, you know...I know I'm not) but didn't Russell Wilson start a full season, complete with NFL level hits? Also - does anyone remember Wilson even playing in the pistol? We know Kaepernick has, but everything I saw from Seattle was your basic, run of the mill pro style offense - same offenses Wilson ran at NC State and Wisconsin. Moving him to a pistol offense would be just as much of a step backwards in his game as moving Matt Schaub into the pistol; Neither has any sort of experience in said formation.
| Quote: | | I would have thought we would have stopped stereotyping running Qbs based upon 1 characteristic by now. I will double over with laughter if the Jags think Geno is the answer at #2 after running Leftwich and Garrard out of town. |
The only one who seems to be doing this is you.
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Last edited by EliteTexan80 on Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:35 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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biggio7
Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 6677
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:59 am Post subject: |
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This draft class of quarterbacks is going to challenge 2002 for worst ever. 
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Apollo Stallion
Joined: 06 Feb 2008
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Location: Battle Red State
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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And on cue, Pat White attempts to become relevant again...
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5080/pat-white
No time to address the Geno Smith as running QB flawed thinking, but I addressed exactly this point elsewhere. Geno Smith is getting bumped up on lists because ill informed morons think he is Pat White, which is what is trendy. I'm not equating them, I'm saying others are...
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amazingandre
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Apollo Stallion wrote: | And on cue, Pat White attempts to become relevant again...
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5080/pat-white
No time to address the Geno Smith as running QB flawed thinking, but I addressed exactly this point elsewhere. Geno Smith is getting bumped up on lists because ill informed morons think he is Pat White, which is what is trendy. I'm not equating them, I'm saying others are... |
You didn't read any of our posts in reply to you if youre still babbling about this
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EliteTexan80
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
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Location: Three time Mr. fanTASTic!
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Apollo Stallion wrote: | | No time to address the Geno Smith as running QB flawed thinking, but I addressed exactly this point elsewhere. Geno Smith is getting bumped up on lists because ill informed morons think he is Pat White, which is what is trendy. I'm not equating them, I'm saying others are... |
Heck, there might be some folk, but I don't think Marco - the guy who got you started up on this tangent - is that guy. I like to think the vast majority of those who frequent this area see Geno Smith and Teddy Bridgewater for what they are - QBs with a strong arm, good touch, good accuracy. Guys who can run just fine, but don't have to RELY on running to be good in this league. Their running isn't on par with a Michael Vick, moreso on par with Aaron Rodgers, who is surprisingly fast, yet uses that speed to enhance what he does in the PASSING game.
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Marco79
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| EliteTexan80 wrote: | | Apollo Stallion wrote: | | No time to address the Geno Smith as running QB flawed thinking, but I addressed exactly this point elsewhere. Geno Smith is getting bumped up on lists because ill informed morons think he is Pat White, which is what is trendy. I'm not equating them, I'm saying others are... |
Heck, there might be some folk, but I don't think Marco - the guy who got you started up on this tangent - is that guy. I like to think the vast majority of those who frequent this area see Geno Smith and Teddy Bridgewater for what they are - QBs with a strong arm, good touch, good accuracy. Guys who can run just fine, but don't have to RELY on running to be good in this league. Their running isn't on par with a Michael Vick, moreso on par with Aaron Rodgers, who is surprisingly fast, yet uses that speed to enhance what he does in the PASSING game. |
Thank you ET.
Apollo, if people thought Geno Smith was Pat White, nobody would consider him a 1st round pick. It is not like I am, or other people, are saying "Let's draft Denard Robinson to fix the QB problem", if that was the case you would have a point, but you comparing Smith and White just because they went to the same school is comical. They are two totally different players as ET has explained.
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lumberjackchris
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Texantype
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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Location: Houston
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:55 pm Post subject: The qb |
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They better get serious about about another qb. Did anyone see how "unsparkling" Schaub was at the Pro Bowl?
What is the matter with his performance the last sevaral weeks and the pro bowl?
Oh, I know, we can't get another because of what we pay him, I can hear it now, "he's just in a slump and he'll pull out out of it?
Nobody seems to be talking about it.
What? Is there a a gag order? |
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Wolf6151
Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 2559
Location: Pearland, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: The qb |
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| Texantype wrote: | They better get serious about about another qb. Did anyone see how "unsparkling" Schaub was at the Pro Bowl?
What is the matter with his performance the last sevaral weeks and the pro bowl?
Oh, I know, we can't get another because of what we pay him, I can hear it now, "he's just in a slump and he'll pull out out of it?
Nobody seems to be talking about it.
What? Is there a a gag order? |
Schaub has been playing poorly since we got [inappropriate/removed] slapped by the Packers. I think something got into his head and he hasn't pulled out of it yet. He sucked in the lowest pressure situation, Pro Bowl, by throwing 2 interceptions in what amounts to a sand lot game. And Kubiak wasn't around to control or restrict him. Schaub had the lowest passer rating of all QB's in the Pro Bowl. Unfortunately we're stuck with him for at least 2-3 more years, and I don't see the Texans paying a 1st round pick to sit on the bench for at least 2 yrs.. Also this isn't the year for taking a QB, this draft class leaves alot to be desired.
Yes there will be teams taking plenty of QB's in the 1st round, it's just a position that gets over drafted due to need, and there's always lots of need. |
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EliteTexan80
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 37192
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:04 am Post subject: Re: The qb |
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| Texantype wrote: | | They better get serious about about another qb. Did anyone see how "unsparkling" Schaub was at the Pro Bowl? |
I don't bother watching that glorified practice session, but I heard as much.
| Quote: | | What is the matter with his performance the last sevaral weeks and the pro bowl? |
That's the four year/$66MM question. I think we've all asked it for the most part, and - just like any hot topic - there are two sides to the debate.
| Quote: | | Oh, I know, we can't get another because of what we pay him, I can hear it now, "he's just in a slump and he'll pull out out of it? |
I don't think anyone is saying that anymore. There are talks that he might be hiding an injury, there are talks that he doesn't have enough weapons, there are talks that he's simply not good - but just like in any hot topic, there is no ONE answer. It's probably a combo of all three.
You bring up the money side of the discussion and - while I understand that written word can't really convey context or intent - I almost can sense that your intent is to throw that by the wayside. Sorry, but that isn't how it works...the money is a REAL issue that has to be dealt with, no reason to beat around that bush. Keeping Schaub means you have the starting QB for the 2013 season, with a cap hit of roughly $8MM. Letting Schaub loose means you need to find a starting QB, and would cost the Texans upwards of a $9MM cap penalty. Trading him has the same effect to the cap (we'd no doubt get some concessions in the form of players and/or draft picks, but we'd still have about $9MM of our cap dedicated to him).
In short - it's more cost efficient to keep Schaub on the roster vs cutting or trading him. If you have a way of ridding ourselves of Schaub while not throwing our salary cap into the abyss, I am all ears. We have some key players to re-sign in the next one to three years (not including the largest contract for a defensive player that JJ Watt is going to be pining for sometime next year...you're not seeing straight if you think Watt will be playing on his rookie deal in 2014).
| Quote: | Nobody seems to be talking about it.
What? Is there a a gag order? |
I apologize in advance, but...WHAT!? 
Venture into the 2013 Draft thread. See how many rookie QBs have been mentioned - EJ Manuel, Tyler Bray, Ryan Nassib, Tyler Wilson - we're not mentioning them because we have the utmost confidence in Matt. We bring them up because many have made their decision on Schaub, and that decision is that he WON'T be the starting QB for the Texans if the right circumstances play out.
Outside of that piece - you know, finding our next QB while our current QB is still collecting checks and all - there ain't much talk because there ain't much to get out there. Who, pray tell...would YOU endorse? The career backup in TJ Yates? The sub-par Alex Smith? Joe Flacco, who is about to either be tagged by Baltimore, or sign a deal that is on par with the $23MM/year deal that Drew Brees got? Kevin LOLb? The QB formerly known as Titans QB? Colt "Waaa, Daddy help me" McCoy? Michael Vick?
If any of these names are your solution, then I fear for the future. Matt is bad, but good enough to engineer a 12-4 season. Outside of Flacco (who is a pipe dream, as well as extremely inconsistent during the Regular Season) there's not a name among the QBs available that would even sniff at 12-4 with this team. We'd be right back to "Forever 8-8" again.
Truth is, franchise QBs don't grow on trees. We found that out when we drafted David Carr #1 overall, and we got a better idea of that when our six year project from Atlanta showed his lack of big game fortitude this past season. Weeping and gnashing of teeth ain't going to make this better. Reviewing over options and actually SEEING who can help will...and in doing that, you don't see anyone who does make this better.
If you don't think people are talking about this, or you think there is some sort of "gag" order, you haven't been paying attention.
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Texantype
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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Location: Houston
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: The qb |
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| EliteTexan80 wrote: | | Texantype wrote: | | They better get serious about about another qb. Did anyone see how "unsparkling" Schaub was at the Pro Bowl? |
I don't bother watching that glorified practice session, but I heard as much.
| Quote: | | What is the matter with his performance the last sevaral weeks and the pro bowl? |
That's the four year/$66MM question. I think we've all asked it for the most part, and - just like any hot topic - there are two sides to the debate.
| Quote: | | Oh, I know, we can't get another because of what we pay him, I can hear it now, "he's just in a slump and he'll pull out out of it? |
I don't think anyone is saying that anymore. There are talks that he might be hiding an injury, there are talks that he doesn't have enough weapons, there are talks that he's simply not good - but just like in any hot topic, there is no ONE answer. It's probably a combo of all three.
You bring up the money side of the discussion and - while I understand that written word can't really convey context or intent - I almost can sense that your intent is to throw that by the wayside. Sorry, but that isn't how it works...the money is a REAL issue that has to be dealt with, no reason to beat around that bush. Keeping Schaub means you have the starting QB for the 2013 season, with a cap hit of roughly $8MM. Letting Schaub loose means you need to find a starting QB, and would cost the Texans upwards of a $9MM cap penalty. Trading him has the same effect to the cap (we'd no doubt get some concessions in the form of players and/or draft picks, but we'd still have about $9MM of our cap dedicated to him).
In short - it's more cost efficient to keep Schaub on the roster vs cutting or trading him. If you have a way of ridding ourselves of Schaub while not throwing our salary cap into the abyss, I am all ears. We have some key players to re-sign in the next one to three years (not including the largest contract for a defensive player that JJ Watt is going to be pining for sometime next year...you're not seeing straight if you think Watt will be playing on his rookie deal in 2014).
| Quote: | Nobody seems to be talking about it.
What? Is there a a gag order? |
I apologize in advance, but...WHAT!?
Venture into the 2013 Draft thread. See how many rookie QBs have been mentioned - EJ Manuel, Tyler Bray, Ryan Nassib, Tyler Wilson - we're not mentioning them because we have the utmost confidence in Matt. We bring them up because many have made their decision on Schaub, and that decision is that he WON'T be the starting QB for the Texans if the right circumstances play out.
Outside of that piece - you know, finding our next QB while our current QB is still collecting checks and all - there ain't much talk because there ain't much to get out there. Who, pray tell...would YOU endorse? The career backup in TJ Yates? The sub-par Alex Smith? Joe Flacco, who is about to either be tagged by Baltimore, or sign a deal that is on par with the $23MM/year deal that Drew Brees got? Kevin LOLb? The QB formerly known as Titans QB? Colt "Waaa, Daddy help me" McCoy? Michael Vick?
If any of these names are your solution, then I fear for the future. Matt is bad, but good enough to engineer a 12-4 season. Outside of Flacco (who is a pipe dream, as well as extremely inconsistent during the Regular Season) there's not a name among the QBs available that would even sniff at 12-4 with this team. We'd be right back to "Forever 8-8" again.
Truth is, franchise QBs don't grow on trees. We found that out when we drafted David Carr #1 overall, and we got a better idea of that when our six year project from Atlanta showed his lack of big game fortitude this past season. Weeping and gnashing of teeth ain't going to make this better. Reviewing over options and actually SEEING who can help will...and in doing that, you don't see anyone who does make this better.
If you don't think people are talking about this, or you think there is some sort of "gag" order, you haven't been paying attention. |
I think think you are right. There is no single answer to the Schaub problem. But they better scout the qb's like crazy.
Thanks for answering.  |
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buckwild
Joined: 25 Jan 2011
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Location: Ft Worth, Tx
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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Regardless of what happened in the game, I think the Texans are going to wait until next year to even consider a QB.
Lance Zierlein
This draft class for QB sucks to put it mildly, and don't want Texans reaching on a QB when they could be improving in other areas of the team. We have it good with Schaub or would many of you rather have Matt Cassel, Mark Sanchez, Ryan Fitzpatrick, or Brandon Weeden.
Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
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bunnyracin
Joined: 28 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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Start the vid at 2:15 .. Dilfer says toward the end of the season Matt looked hurt. What he said was pretty interesting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KQPyoXGlr0
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mse326
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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It would make sense. He started overthrowin a lot more than usual (not the deep routes but the medium crossing routes). That is normally an issue with the lower body.
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Apollo Stallion
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| mse326 wrote: |
It would make sense. He started overthrowin a lot more than usual (not the deep routes but the medium crossing routes). That is normally an issue with the lower body. |
See my various posts on the same subject. Schaub has never had exceptional deep arm strength, but almost all of the reputable QB analysts rave about Schaub's strength and accuracy on short/medium routes required in our system, especially sending the sideline routes out there on a rope. He came into camp throwing lasers all over the field and was more often than not overthrowing the deep routes. I would love to see the pick 6 in the Bengals game laid side by side with about 20 similar throws before the final month when clearly something was going on (I suspect in the shoulder). I am glad Schaub and nobody else in the organization are making injury excuses for him as we're done hearing them as ultimately staying healthy is on him, but there seems to be plenty of evidence that something was going on just like Peyton made some throws late that didn't fit with mid season form. It's why I advocated bringing in Knapp as a playoff "consultant" after he got blown out in Oak to evaluate Schaub and determine what had gone awry as the work he did with him in 2011 absolutely improved his arm strength and something got lost late whether due to injury or form.
BTW - Going to keep hitting this point every time the arm strength issue comes up. Jamarcus Russell had a great deep arm and so did our roided up PUNTER last year. Those throws are more like those a right fielder throws to home plate, while QBs throws are more like a pitcher's that need to be accurate and be able to control speed for certain pitches. Some can do both, but for the most part the ones with the right field arms can't keep the ball over the plate consistently just like the Jamarcus Russell types couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. Kaepernick clearly has no touch and as exciting as he may be running and bombing deep, as teams adapt they are going to keep blitzing the hell out of him and watch him zip fastballs 3 feet high and drives die in the red zone. There are plenty of things that can be improved with Schaub, but you don't see anyone complaining about Brady's arm strength and Schaub's is closer to his than Brady's is to Flacco's or Kaepernicks.
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