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Estonianzulu
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 19770
Location: Middle of Nowhere VA
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 Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| mistakebytehlak wrote: | | duke2056 wrote: | While I won't call Hecker "bad", I still think our 1st round was terrible last year.
Picks what, 4 and 23 and we draft a RB and a 28 year old QB. Talk about a poor use of resources.
You don't take a RB that high unless you are a good team needing a final piece (and even then I can not condone taking a RB that high), and you dont take a 28 year old ANYTHING in the first round, ever.
I was hoping to feel the positive effects from that first round for a decade, not a few years.
However, I also kinda think there was some Holmy influence and some Shurmur influence looking for more immediate impact players to try and save their jobs. It would take one HELL of a lot to convince me otherwise. For all I know, Heckert felt the job security squeeze also. |
yep because reaching at 3 for a RB and taking a soon to be 29 year old QB obviously will help your job security
they stuck to their guns and made the moves they thought would win us games.
trent richardson is gonna score a lot of TDs for us. I'm not gonna complain when he does so. |
I'm also amused when people say "BPA!" and then follow it up with "Don't take a RB at 3"
I thought the rookie wage scale was supposed to make BPA a reality regardless of position?
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ReggieCamp
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 8679
Location: Canonsburg, PA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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I thought about it more over the weekend. My random thoughts.
Haslam and Banner obviously knew the fanbase would hate the Lombardi hire. They scheduled the announcement on a Friday, sandwiched between the announcements of the 2 new coordinators (which were expected to be warmly received, and they have been). They invited Lombardi's wife and son to the press conference. It's a little more difficult for the vultures to hurl insults when the guy's wife and kid are there. Almost immediately, public figures came out in support of the Lombardi hire. Jim Nantz, Bill Belichick, Mike Mayock, Brian Baldinger, etc. This PR outpouring was not a coincidence. This was H&B planning for the backlash.
No matter how you slice it, Lombardi's personnel record is pretty lousy. We've talked about his past drafts a lot, and they were shaky at best. It's a valid question as to whether he had final say on any of these drafts, but they are what they are. Also, many of his public takes on TV couldn't have been much worse. Yes, when you're a talking head on TV, you have to talk so much that you're always going to say things that you'd like to have back. But man, it's not tough to find some really dumb things he said on TV. Not liking the JJ Watt pick (saying Cameron Jordan would've been the better pick), having Blaine Gabbert as #1 on his big board, saying Seattle should bench Russell Wilson for Matt Flynn, and on and on. I'm sure he said plenty of things that were right, but these are some pretty big misses.
My biggest problem is being lied to by Haslam and Banner. Those 2 guys are in charge, and they can hire whoever they want without my permission, but don't tell me about the process and the best man for the job and blah blah blah. They hired Lombardi because Banner was fixated on him since day 1. That's all there is. I don't buy that everyone they talked to said Lombardi was the best and smartest and a great hire. BS. Banner was comfortable with him, and he hired him. I'd almost rather they say that than try to insult my intelligence by making up other stuff. There was only 1 confirmed interview other than Lombardi (Ray Farmer). That's not conducting a thorough search. That's just going through the motions and hiring your friend.
In the end, I have the same feeling about this as I did about hiring Shurmur. Holmgren and Heckert didn't conduct a thorough search for a head coach. They interviewed 3 guys in total (1 was a Rooney Rule), and they hired a guy with a questionable track record. Sound familiar? I gave Shurmur a chance, so I will certainly give Lombardi a chance. I'm just not a fan of the process or the subsequent spin control.
That's all. I won't complain about it any more. Lombardi is now my favorite GM in the league, and I hope he leads us to the promised land.
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JCBrowns21
Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 875
Location: Chi Town
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| ReggieCamp wrote: | I thought about it more over the weekend. My random thoughts.
Haslam and Banner obviously knew the fanbase would hate the Lombardi hire. They scheduled the announcement on a Friday, sandwiched between the announcements of the 2 new coordinators (which were expected to be warmly received, and they have been). They invited Lombardi's wife and son to the press conference. It's a little more difficult for the vultures to hurl insults when the guy's wife and kid are there. Almost immediately, public figures came out in support of the Lombardi hire. Jim Nantz, Bill Belichick, Mike Mayock, Brian Baldinger, etc. This PR outpouring was not a coincidence. This was H&B planning for the backlash.
No matter how you slice it, Lombardi's personnel record is pretty lousy. We've talked about his past drafts a lot, and they were shaky at best. It's a valid question as to whether he had final say on any of these drafts, but they are what they are. Also, many of his public takes on TV couldn't have been much worse. Yes, when you're a talking head on TV, you have to talk so much that you're always going to say things that you'd like to have back. But man, it's not tough to find some really dumb things he said on TV. Not liking the JJ Watt pick (saying Cameron Jordan would've been the better pick), having Blaine Gabbert as #1 on his big board, saying Seattle should bench Russell Wilson for Matt Flynn, and on and on. I'm sure he said plenty of things that were right, but these are some pretty big misses.
My biggest problem is being lied to by Haslam and Banner. Those 2 guys are in charge, and they can hire whoever they want without my permission, but don't tell me about the process and the best man for the job and blah blah blah. They hired Lombardi because Banner was fixated on him since day 1. That's all there is. I don't buy that everyone they talked to said Lombardi was the best and smartest and a great hire. BS. Banner was comfortable with him, and he hired him. I'd almost rather they say that than try to insult my intelligence by making up other stuff. There was only 1 confirmed interview other than Lombardi (Ray Farmer). That's not conducting a thorough search. That's just going through the motions and hiring your friend.
In the end, I have the same feeling about this as I did about hiring Shurmur. Holmgren and Heckert didn't conduct a thorough search for a head coach. They interviewed 3 guys in total (1 was a Rooney Rule), and they hired a guy with a questionable track record. Sound familiar? I gave Shurmur a chance, so I will certainly give Lombardi a chance. I'm just not a fan of the process or the subsequent spin control.
That's all. I won't complain about it any more. Lombardi is now my favorite GM in the league, and I hope he leads us to the promised land. |
Agree with most of your thoughts, but I will say it's a little different than the Shurmur hire. Lombardi has the experience and people in high places that vouch for him. Whether we like him or not, he seems to be well respected by football people. The only people I hear criticizing are fans and local journalists.
Shurmur had only been an OC for like 1-2 years and was given too much responsibility. Lombardi won't be making final roster decisions or working the cap, contracts, etc. Hopefully, he can be the talent evaluator that BB, Banner and others believe him to be.
Still wasn't the guy I wanted, but I think the coaching staff is more important and by all accounts, we got that right.
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mtmmike
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 477
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| ReggieCamp wrote: | I thought about it more over the weekend. My random thoughts.
Haslam and Banner obviously knew the fanbase would hate the Lombardi hire. They scheduled the announcement on a Friday, sandwiched between the announcements of the 2 new coordinators (which were expected to be warmly received, and they have been). They invited Lombardi's wife and son to the press conference. It's a little more difficult for the vultures to hurl insults when the guy's wife and kid are there. Almost immediately, public figures came out in support of the Lombardi hire. Jim Nantz, Bill Belichick, Mike Mayock, Brian Baldinger, etc. This PR outpouring was not a coincidence. This was H&B planning for the backlash.
No matter how you slice it, Lombardi's personnel record is pretty lousy. We've talked about his past drafts a lot, and they were shaky at best. It's a valid question as to whether he had final say on any of these drafts, but they are what they are. Also, many of his public takes on TV couldn't have been much worse. Yes, when you're a talking head on TV, you have to talk so much that you're always going to say things that you'd like to have back. But man, it's not tough to find some really dumb things he said on TV. Not liking the JJ Watt pick (saying Cameron Jordan would've been the better pick), having Blaine Gabbert as #1 on his big board, saying Seattle should bench Russell Wilson for Matt Flynn, and on and on. I'm sure he said plenty of things that were right, but these are some pretty big misses.
My biggest problem is being lied to by Haslam and Banner. Those 2 guys are in charge, and they can hire whoever they want without my permission, but don't tell me about the process and the best man for the job and blah blah blah. They hired Lombardi because Banner was fixated on him since day 1. That's all there is. I don't buy that everyone they talked to said Lombardi was the best and smartest and a great hire. BS. Banner was comfortable with him, and he hired him. I'd almost rather they say that than try to insult my intelligence by making up other stuff. There was only 1 confirmed interview other than Lombardi (Ray Farmer). That's not conducting a thorough search. That's just going through the motions and hiring your friend.
In the end, I have the same feeling about this as I did about hiring Shurmur. Holmgren and Heckert didn't conduct a thorough search for a head coach. They interviewed 3 guys in total (1 was a Rooney Rule), and they hired a guy with a questionable track record. Sound familiar? I gave Shurmur a chance, so I will certainly give Lombardi a chance. I'm just not a fan of the process or the subsequent spin control.
That's all. I won't complain about it any more. Lombardi is now my favorite GM in the league, and I hope he leads us to the promised land. |
I feel your pain but maybe we can draft the loiusville qb next year. |
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roger murdock
Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 5217
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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I don't want Bridgewater of Clowney next year. I want a winning football team and I think we can do it.
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buno67
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 24034
Location: Chubs for Chud
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| roger murdock wrote: | | I don't want Bridgewater of Clowney next year. I want a winning football team and I think we can do it. |
I don't want anything to do with Bridgewater but would love to trade up for Clowney
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cattleman78
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 6431
Location: ohio
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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While Heckert had a lot of holes to fill and overall did a good job Lombardi has quite a few holes to fill also. He and others will be judged on this.
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bruceb
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 5328
Location: Rocky River, OH
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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The thing that bothers me the most about hiring Lombardi is that I like the other high level hirings.
Not wild about Chud, but Chud + Turner + Horton = Very solid.
Lombardi seems like a red-haired step child added to the mix, and I can't make heads or tails of it in comparison to the other hirings.
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ditchdigger
Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 14043
Location: Columbus, OH
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| bruceb wrote: | The thing that bothers me the most about hiring Lombardi is that I like the other high level hirings.
Not wild about Chud, but Chud + Turner + Horton = Very solid.
Lombardi seems like a red-haired step child added to the mix, and I can't make heads or tails of it in comparison to the other hirings. |
Are you not offended by the sham "process to find the right guy"? Or does Banner get the free pass that you never gave Holmgren? |
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nugpimpen
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 12160
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| ditchdigger wrote: | | bruceb wrote: | The thing that bothers me the most about hiring Lombardi is that I like the other high level hirings.
Not wild about Chud, but Chud + Turner + Horton = Very solid.
Lombardi seems like a red-haired step child added to the mix, and I can't make heads or tails of it in comparison to the other hirings. |
Are you not offended by the sham "process to find the right guy"? Or does Banner get the free pass that you never gave Holmgren? |
They aren't all represented by the same agent.
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bruceb
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 5328
Location: Rocky River, OH
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:02 am Post subject: |
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| nugpimpen wrote: | | ditchdigger wrote: | | bruceb wrote: | The thing that bothers me the most about hiring Lombardi is that I like the other high level hirings.
Not wild about Chud, but Chud + Turner + Horton = Very solid.
Lombardi seems like a red-haired step child added to the mix, and I can't make heads or tails of it in comparison to the other hirings. |
Are you not offended by the sham "process to find the right guy"? Or does Banner get the free pass that you never gave Holmgren? |
They aren't all represented by the same agent.
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LOL! 
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bruceb
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 5328
Location: Rocky River, OH
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:06 am Post subject: |
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| ditchdigger wrote: | | bruceb wrote: | The thing that bothers me the most about hiring Lombardi is that I like the other high level hirings.
Not wild about Chud, but Chud + Turner + Horton = Very solid.
Lombardi seems like a red-haired step child added to the mix, and I can't make heads or tails of it in comparison to the other hirings. |
Are you not offended by the sham "process to find the right guy"? Or does Banner get the free pass that you never gave Holmgren? |
Holmgren was a highly paid putz.
Banner might well be, too. I don't know, and am trying to figure it out.
I just can't reconcile what I consider a solid team with the rest of the picks with Lombardi, who's track record sucks.
Part of me is thinking: Ok, the rest are ok, so this one must be, too.
But Lombardi? What in the hell has he ever done right to merit this kind of a job?
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nugpimpen
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 12160
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:11 am Post subject: |
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| bruceb wrote: | | ditchdigger wrote: | | bruceb wrote: | The thing that bothers me the most about hiring Lombardi is that I like the other high level hirings.
Not wild about Chud, but Chud + Turner + Horton = Very solid.
Lombardi seems like a red-haired step child added to the mix, and I can't make heads or tails of it in comparison to the other hirings. |
Are you not offended by the sham "process to find the right guy"? Or does Banner get the free pass that you never gave Holmgren? |
Holmgren was a highly paid putz.
Banner might well be, too. I don't know, and am trying to figure it out.
I just can't reconcile what I consider a solid team with the rest of the picks with Lombardi, who's track record sucks.
Part of me is thinking: Ok, the rest are ok, so this one must be, too.
But Lombardi? What in the hell has he ever done right to merit this kind of a job? |
How come you are waiting on Banner but pounced right on Holmgren and didn't give him a chance?
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bruceb
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 5328
Location: Rocky River, OH
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:21 am Post subject: |
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| nugpimpen wrote: | | bruceb wrote: | | ditchdigger wrote: | | bruceb wrote: | The thing that bothers me the most about hiring Lombardi is that I like the other high level hirings.
Not wild about Chud, but Chud + Turner + Horton = Very solid.
Lombardi seems like a red-haired step child added to the mix, and I can't make heads or tails of it in comparison to the other hirings. |
Are you not offended by the sham "process to find the right guy"? Or does Banner get the free pass that you never gave Holmgren? |
Holmgren was a highly paid putz.
Banner might well be, too. I don't know, and am trying to figure it out.
I just can't reconcile what I consider a solid team with the rest of the picks with Lombardi, who's track record sucks.
Part of me is thinking: Ok, the rest are ok, so this one must be, too.
But Lombardi? What in the hell has he ever done right to merit this kind of a job? |
How come you are waiting on Banner but pounced right on Holmgren and didn't give him a chance? |
Because Holmgren was a putz from day one...no question in my mind about it.
Banner. at least, has given us Chud, Turner and Horton.
More than a little better and lot less crony than Shurmur, Shurmur and Jauron.
I still wonder what Holmgren's "take" was on those decisions.
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nugpimpen
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 12160
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| bruceb wrote: | | nugpimpen wrote: | | bruceb wrote: | | ditchdigger wrote: | | bruceb wrote: | The thing that bothers me the most about hiring Lombardi is that I like the other high level hirings.
Not wild about Chud, but Chud + Turner + Horton = Very solid.
Lombardi seems like a red-haired step child added to the mix, and I can't make heads or tails of it in comparison to the other hirings. |
Are you not offended by the sham "process to find the right guy"? Or does Banner get the free pass that you never gave Holmgren? |
Holmgren was a highly paid putz.
Banner might well be, too. I don't know, and am trying to figure it out.
I just can't reconcile what I consider a solid team with the rest of the picks with Lombardi, who's track record sucks.
Part of me is thinking: Ok, the rest are ok, so this one must be, too.
But Lombardi? What in the hell has he ever done right to merit this kind of a job? |
How come you are waiting on Banner but pounced right on Holmgren and didn't give him a chance? |
Because Holmgren was a putz from day one...no question in my mind about it.
Banner. at least, has given us Chud, Turner and Horton.
More than a little better and lot less crony than Shurmur, Shurmur and Jauron.
I still wonder what Holmgren's "take" was on those decisions. |
As much as i believe our coaches will be legit, they haven't done anything yet.
You are assuming they will be and giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Neither of those things were given to the FO brought in by Holmy.
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| hornbybrown wrote: | | We also have the highest amount per capita of Jedi in New Zealand. I'm one. |
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