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Mikek163


Joined: 24 Nov 2008
Posts: 5477
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:29 pm    Post subject: 1st Scout a QB official thread Reply with quote

Okay so all the discussion goes in here since we got everyone signed up. If anyone else wants to join in a bit late and grab someone like Manuel, or whomever feel free.

Im looking for a template that will cover these questions / subjects:

1- 1st year game tape
2- 2nd year game tape
3- 3rd year game tape

And so on until your qb has declared.

Official scouts opinions. General consensus on things like footwork, arm strength etc. Then your opinion on all of those important factors.

So far we have:

MikeK163 = Mike Glennon

HiccupGuy = Geno Smith

Ryk = Tyler Wilson

Rearview = Zac Dysert

Rumless = Colby Cameron

Jeff66 = E.J Manuel

Andddd GO!
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jeffs66


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will look at Ej
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Rearviewmirror


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rearviewmirror wrote:
love it. approve it. Zac Dysert for me.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=zac+dysert+film&oq=zac+dysert+film&gs_l=youtube-reduced.3...0.0.0.831953.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0...0.0...1ac.

Easy to get to the 4 films I watched there.

Positives:
Dysert is well built. 6-4 225. Move in the pocket a little like Roethlisberger. Evades well. Not fast, more elusive. Won't make you miss in the open field. Always keeps his eyes downfield and makes a lot of great schoolyard plays. Great accuracy. Solid mechanics, though will throw off back foot. Good accuracy on crosses hits guys in stride. Uses whole field well. Gets the ball out quick. Had a solid down the field ball. Gives WRs a chance at the very least. Makes those arond him better this lifts him from a 3rd rounder to a 2nd rounder to me. His OL is terrible and he makes due with that.


Concerns:
Pretty much a 1 read QB from the games I watched. He'll maybe 2 times a game or so get to an actual 2nd read, other than that it's forced into the 1st read, checkdowned (though not often), play breaks down and he makes a schoolyard play, or he's sacked. Has a decent arm, but isn't earth shattering. Has a tendency to not feel/see blind side pressure, though some of that is just terrible OL play. Not sure how much reading of defenses/audibling blitz calling he does. Did not see any on the film, but it usually started right at the snap.

Overall, I'd be very interested in him with a trade down a little in the 2nd. Unless I'm mistaken about his arm strength, he won't be a 1st rounder, but he has a lot of tools to work with. I could definitely see Andy liking him for the WCO. Great at slants and crosses. Great accuracy, gets ball out quick.

Good breakdown of him

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Rearviewmirror


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://draftbreakdown.com/category/videos - helpful for everyone
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Mikek163


Joined: 24 Nov 2008
Posts: 5477
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rearviewmirror wrote:
Rearviewmirror wrote:
love it. approve it. Zac Dysert for me.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=zac+dysert+film&oq=zac+dysert+film&gs_l=youtube-reduced.3...0.0.0.831953.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0...0.0...1ac.

Easy to get to the 4 films I watched there.

Positives:
Dysert is well built. 6-4 225. Move in the pocket a little like Roethlisberger. Evades well. Not fast, more elusive. Won't make you miss in the open field. Always keeps his eyes downfield and makes a lot of great schoolyard plays. Great accuracy. Solid mechanics, though will throw off back foot. Good accuracy on crosses hits guys in stride. Uses whole field well. Gets the ball out quick. Had a solid down the field ball. Gives WRs a chance at the very least. Makes those arond him better this lifts him from a 3rd rounder to a 2nd rounder to me. His OL is terrible and he makes due with that.


Concerns:
Pretty much a 1 read QB from the games I watched. He'll maybe 2 times a game or so get to an actual 2nd read, other than that it's forced into the 1st read, checkdowned (though not often), play breaks down and he makes a schoolyard play, or he's sacked. Has a decent arm, but isn't earth shattering. Has a tendency to not feel/see blind side pressure, though some of that is just terrible OL play. Not sure how much reading of defenses/audibling blitz calling he does. Did not see any on the film, but it usually started right at the snap.

Overall, I'd be very interested in him with a trade down a little in the 2nd. Unless I'm mistaken about his arm strength, he won't be a 1st rounder, but he has a lot of tools to work with. I could definitely see Andy liking him for the WCO. Great at slants and crosses. Great accuracy, gets ball out quick.

Good breakdown of him


What kind of offense does Dysert play in? Pro style? How is the competition he is up against?
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Rearviewmirror


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikek163 wrote:
Rearviewmirror wrote:
Rearviewmirror wrote:
love it. approve it. Zac Dysert for me.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=zac+dysert+film&oq=zac+dysert+film&gs_l=youtube-reduced.3...0.0.0.831953.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0...0.0...1ac.

Easy to get to the 4 films I watched there.

Positives:
Dysert is well built. 6-4 225. Move in the pocket a little like Roethlisberger. Evades well. Not fast, more elusive. Won't make you miss in the open field. Always keeps his eyes downfield and makes a lot of great schoolyard plays. Great accuracy. Solid mechanics, though will throw off back foot. Good accuracy on crosses hits guys in stride. Uses whole field well. Gets the ball out quick. Had a solid down the field ball. Gives WRs a chance at the very least. Makes those arond him better this lifts him from a 3rd rounder to a 2nd rounder to me. His OL is terrible and he makes due with that.


Concerns:
Pretty much a 1 read QB from the games I watched. He'll maybe 2 times a game or so get to an actual 2nd read, other than that it's forced into the 1st read, checkdowned (though not often), play breaks down and he makes a schoolyard play, or he's sacked. Has a decent arm, but isn't earth shattering. Has a tendency to not feel/see blind side pressure, though some of that is just terrible OL play. Not sure how much reading of defenses/audibling blitz calling he does. Did not see any on the film, but it usually started right at the snap.

Overall, I'd be very interested in him with a trade down a little in the 2nd. Unless I'm mistaken about his arm strength, he won't be a 1st rounder, but he has a lot of tools to work with. I could definitely see Andy liking him for the WCO. Great at slants and crosses. Great accuracy, gets ball out quick.

Good breakdown of him


What kind of offense does Dysert play in? Pro style? How is the competition he is up against?


very WCO type stuff. Slants, crosses. Mostly in the gun, but works a little under center. Lots of rollouts. He's great on the run.

Competition I saw was pretty good. Ohio State, Boise St, Kent St, all good teams. Ohio was the other.
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There's only one thing that determines a teams performance on any given sunday
Their opponent-
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Mikek163


Joined: 24 Nov 2008
Posts: 5477
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting about the roll out part. I have only watched a little bit so far about Glennon but I haven't been overly impressed with what he has been doing when on the run. He has the arm strength to get the ball where it needs to be, but he's a little erratic.
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HiccupGuy


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 1959
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

QB: Eugene Emmet (Geno) Smith III

Plays for: West Virginia Mountaineers

Height: 6 ft 3 in
Weight: 220 lb

Stats:
Year - Comps - Atts ---- % ----Yards - Avg - TD - Long - INT - Rating
2009 ----32 ---- 49 ---- 65.6 --- 309 -- 6.3 --- 1 -- 33 ---- 1 --- 120.9
2010 -- 241 --- 372 --- 64.8 -- 2763 -- 7.4 -- 24 -- 71 ---- 7 --- 144.7
2011 -- 346 --- 526 --- 65.8 -- 4385 -- 8.3 -- 31 -- 84 ---- 7 --- 152.6
2012 -- 369 --- 518 --- 71.2 -- 4205 -- 8.1 -- 42 -- 87 ---- 6 --- 163.9


Highlights:
Smith Highlights 2012
More Smith Highlights 2012
Smith 8 TD game Highlight
Smith's Junior Highlights
Smith's Sophomore Highlights

Game Tape:
Texas 2012
Iowa State 2012
Marshall 2012
K-State 2012
Kansas 2012
Maryland 2012
Texas Tech 2012
Oklahoma 2012
Baylor 2012
LSU 2011
Orange Bowl 2012 (2011 season)

Post Game:
Baylor Post Game Interview
Baylor Post Game Interview Locker Room
Iowa State Post Game Interview
Texa Tech Post Game Interview
Maryland Post Game Interview
Kansas State Post Game Interview
Oklahoma State Post Game Interview
Orange Bowl Post Game ESPN Interview 2012 (2011 season)
Orange Bowl Post Game Locker Room Interview 2012 (2011 season)

Pros:
Ideal Size
Great Accuracy on Deep and Medium Passes
Great Footwork
Quick and Consistent Release
Excellent Ball Placement
Calm in the Face of Pressure
Solid Throwing Mechanics
Football Junkie
Lots of Starting Experience
Above Average Athleticism
Can Read Defenses
Goes Through Progressions

Cons:
Not a Rocket Arm
Doesn't Sense Pressure well (Started out great but wore off as soon as the season draged on)
Well Lock onto Primary WR time to time
Doesn't put great touch on short passes
Doesnít spend much time under center, mainly in pistol/shotgun
Tentative to pull it down and run

Some People That I Asked:

CWood21 wrote:
Strengths: The first thing you notice when you start watching tape of Geno Smith is that he's tremendously gifted with his physical tools. He's built quite well, and has shown the ability to bounce back from hard hits from defensive players. But he isn't your classic in the pocket passer, he's got the athletic ability to extend the play with his feet buying a little extra time for his receivers to get open. Geno Smith has been extremely productive under Dana Holgerson by completing over 65% of his throws and only throwing 12 interceptions combined over the last two seasons. When you dissect his release, you notice he's got a quick, short motion that snaps the ball out of his arm and to his receiver. He's got more than enough velocity on his throws to make all the throws that a starting quarterback will be asked to make. Displays really good accuracy on the intermediate throws, and throws a pretty good short route passes. While he's got the ability to create something out of nothing with his legs, he does a great job at being a passer first and then running only when the play breaks down.

Weakness: For as productive as he has been under Dana Holgerson, he really hasn't been in a pro-style offense with him as he's often taking snaps out of shotgun. As a result, he'll need to get practice taking snaps under center and that might be a bit of a hurdle that will need to be seen in post-season games. Too often, he'll rely on his pure arm strength rather than proper technique by stepping up into pressure and throwing off his front foot rather than throwing off his backfoot. The system that Holgerson runs has a lot of predetermined routes for the receivers, so the complexity of a different offensive system will likely be a concern. He'll need to impress the talent evaluators in the board room if he wants to contend for the #1 pick. Occasionally gets too locked onto a receiver, and he'll miss an open receiver as a result. Also will occasionally throw into double and triple coverage forcing throws that he probably shouldn't make. Surprisingly, not a real accurate runner when he's flushed from the pocket. Could stand to clean up his deep ball accuracy a bit more.

Overall: Geno Smith has done a great job of putting himself in line to be the #1 overall pick come April despite his team's lack of success in it's inaugural season in the Big XII. Geno Smith possesses the physical tools to play the quarterback position in the NFL, but right now the question remains more of what is between the ears. He'll need good coaching in the NFL, because his technique particularly in regards to his footwork needs changed. He'll make his money in the board room if he can prove that he can understand and articulate a more complex offensive system than what is ran in West Virginia. Geno Smith has moved himself from a Day 2 pick before the season started into what figures to be a top ten pick, and possibly the first overall pick should he continue to impress people. He's below Andrew Luck and RGIII as QB prospects though.


Reality_Check wrote:
I came in looking at the tape thinking Iíd be scouting a second tier quarterback with upside, but came away with the second highest grade Iíve given to the draft eligible quarterbacks thus far (Tyler Wilson of Arkansas). Smith exhibits all of the tools needed to be successful at the next level, and in my opinion is a franchise quarterback prospect. I have an early first round grade on him, and if he continues to play at the level he has, would have no problem spending a top 15 pick on him.


This is what he said on his website. Was before the season started. The next thing is something that he also said to me.

Reality_Check wrote:
I think he fits with the Chiefs and Reid. Would really like to see them pursue him or Tyler Wilson at #1 overall, then double down on an EJ Manuel in the 4th. Similar to what the Redskins did last draft w/ RG3 and Kirk Cousins.


nicfre2011 wrote:
My take on Geno Smith :

I think Geno Smith is a solid prospect. He doesn't get a fair shake when compared to recent top quarterback prospects like Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III, etc. I think Smith projects as a solid franchise quarterback if he never becomes an elite starting quarterback at the NFL level. While not comparing them as prospects trait-for-trait, Smith reminds me alot of how people viewed Matt Ryan as a prospect coming out of Boston College. Matt Ryan was panned as a less-than-elite quarterback prospect but was essentially the #1 rated quarterback by default. I think Smith compares to Ryan in the sense that Matt Ryan isn't necessarily viewed as elite but he is a solid starter with the potential to develop even further - and having a solid starter with legitimate upside is a big plus.

I think the knock against Smith as far as the offensive system is proving to be if not a non-factor certainly not something that projects to be a big negative. I feel this is especially evident when you look at the success that the young quarterbacks have had coming right out of college like Russell Wilson, Colin Kaepernick, and Robert Griffin III. Smart offensive-minded coaches don't necessarily try and put a square peg in a round hole but can tailor an offensive attack to maximize the immediate strengths and abilities.

I think Smith has the physical tools although I wouldn't necessarily say he has top-tier arm strength but he can make the necessary throws at the next level that you look for in a legitimate quarterback prospect.

He strikes me as the epitome of a rhythm quarterback. When he gets in a rhythm and the WVU offense gets in a rhythm, Smith is definitely at his best. What I do notice is that while Smith doesn't panic on the pocket, he doesn't feel the pressure as quickly as you would like when the pocket breaks down. He is athletic but doesn't use that athleticism as much to slide in the pocket. He does a good job of keeping his eyes down the field and is definitely looking to pass first as opposed to tucking and running.

Smith isn't exactly in the Mike Glennon club as far as physique goes, but he does seem to have a fairly slight build. I am sure once he gets into an NFL weight training and nutrition program he will be able to add some bulk without affecting his mobility in the pocket.

I like the reports that Smith is a true student of the game and is willing to put in the time and effort to study film with an eye to improving. His press conferences after wins and losses seem to show a young quarterback that is always looking to take the next step and learn from his (and the teams') mistakes. Hopefully Smith doesn't dwell on the mistakes and has the mental ability of putting a bad performance behind him and starting the next game without the distraction of past struggles.

My biggest concern with Smith is something that I see in Tyler Wilson - the intangibles. I am not sure that I see in Smith the projection of a quarterback that has the moxie or intangibles to lead a team when the bullets are flying and when it looks like the odds are stacked against victory. When I have watched Smith, especially in the losses, I have seen a quarterback that while he continues to trot out play after play, I don't always see the fire that translates into carrying a team on his shoulders.

Smith has alot of positives from a physical ability standpoint, understanding of the position, and his work ethic. He does have some negatives that will have to be determined if they more than just minor red flags.



Added to some Pros and Cons. If I have missed some or feel like a put some in the wrong place be free to tell me. Anyways I will prolly finish up tomarrow.


Last edited by HiccupGuy on Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:37 am; edited 4 times in total
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good read guys. Keep it up.
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Mikek163


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nicfre2011 wrote:
Good read guys. Keep it up.


Nic you want to make the final decision on where the Chiefs should go in each round with each prospect? Ie - Smith 1, Glennon 2, Dyser 7 etc..? After all the stuff is finalized?
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jeffs66


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EJ Manuel
Florida St.
6-5 240lbs
4.64 40

2009: 69/106 817 YD 2 TD 6 INT 124.7 Rating
2010: 65/93 861 YD 4 TD 4 INT 153.3 Rating
2011: 203/311 2,666 YD 18 TD 8 INT 151.2 Rating
2012: 263/387 3,392 YD 23 TD 10 INT 156.0 Rating




http://draftbreakdown.com/ej-manuel-vs-miami-2011
http://draftbreakdown.com/ej-manuel-vs-notre-dame-2011
http://draftbreakdown.com/ej-manuel-vs-wake-forest-2012
http://draftbreakdown.com/ej-manuel-vs-clemson-2012
http://draftbreakdown.com/ej-manuel-vs-usf-2012

Scouts Consensus
Good:
-Arm strength
-Athleticism
-Footwork and agility to avoid the pass rush
Bad:
-Poor decision making
-Fails to see the entire field on downfield throws

My Observations from Film:
Manuel's first two years were spent mostly as back-up to Ponder. His junior year he would have a play of brilliance showing all the potential talent he had only to follow it up with 2-3 bone-headed decisions. His junior year was just plagued by inconsistency. From the games I watched in his senior year he seemed to take a step forward. The bone-headed plays seemed to be reduced as he led his team to an Orange Bowl victory. When Gameday visited for the Clemson game I was impressed with how Manuel played on the big stage. As a USC student I don't have much respect for Clemson's defense but I was impressed by Manuel's performance in that game as it was a classic game for him to have a meltdown.
Manuel has great athletic ability and seems to have pretty good to great pocket presence. He has great arm strength and a fairly quick release. As long as he has some protection and can step into his throw and deliver it on time his accuracy is strong as well. He runs into problems when he is under pressure and tries to force the ball down field while he is off balance.
Under Reid, Pederson, and Childress, Manuel can succeed as his decision-making improves. I would certainly be willing to use one of the third round picks on him to help fill in as Kirk Cousins role like Washington did last year.
I would love to hear others opinions as well.
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simonwayne


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that this is a terrific idea, and I'll take Matt Barkley.
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Chiefer


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HiccupGuy wrote:

Cons:
Doesn't Sense Pressure well (Started out great but wore off as soon as the season draged on)

You think that has something to do with the lack of talent on the OL?

Everyone and their mother knows that the only players of note on that team are Tavon, Bailey & Geno. I think the lack of ideal protection and the weight of having to make the big play constantly got to him as the season wore on.
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Chiefer


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HiccupGuy wrote:

Cons:
Doesn't Sense Pressure well (Started out great but wore off as soon as the season draged on)

You think that has something to do with the lack of talent on the OL?

Everyone and their mother knows that the only players of note on that team are Tavon, Bailey & Geno. I think the lack of ideal protection and the weight of having to make the big play constantly got to him as the season wore on.
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikek163 wrote:
nicfre2011 wrote:
Good read guys. Keep it up.


Nic you want to make the final decision on where the Chiefs should go in each round with each prospect? Ie - Smith 1, Glennon 2, Dyser 7 etc..? After all the stuff is finalized?


Sounds good! Will do!
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