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Chiefs_5627


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2013/1/10/3862228/geno-smith-a-tale-in-accuracy


Bigs posted this in another thread.
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigGUNS04 wrote:
Bobikus wrote:
bigGUNS04 wrote:
lol I don't think I will ever be sold on G. Smith...He is a checkdown machine... Rolling Eyes


Already proven false.


Lol...ok...

I guess the games lie. Rolling Eyes There really isn't one thing about him that makes me go "WOW!"

pistol formation, probably averaged 45 att./ game if not more, there really isn't any tape that proves his accuracy of deep throws.

NOBODY on this forum is talking about his 2 recievers that he had this year. Tavon Austin LED all recievers with the most YAC this year. Stedman Bailey had a lot as well.

Tavon Austin:

1289 Rec Yds
909 YAC
70.5% of his yards were YAC---hellooo check downs and screens.

Stedman Bailey:

1501 rec yds
553 yac
36% of his were YAC
-Not to mention most of his stats came from god aweful teams.

You take away those TWO recievers and Geno Smith averaged a whopping 4.9 yards/ attempt Laughing Whatever. All I know is there isn't a CLEAR cut #1 QB this year, which makes me hesitate on taking him #1. If the Chiefs could draft luke joeckel or even star lotulelei and got a QB in round 2 I would be perfectly happy.

Imagine: OL w/ Joeckel

Joeckel (lt), Albert (lg), Hudson (c), Asamoah (rg), Stephenson (rt)

DL w/ Star

jackson (de), Poe (nt), lotulelei (de) --- I personally see this as a lot better DL.I see Star creating much more havoc in a 34 than KC has seen from any 34 de.

Picking a RD 2 QB such as Glennon. Signing A. Smith or trading to Seattle for Flynn. Groom the future. If he doesn't pan out, draft one in '14...by god they have to be better than the '13 class.

See the above link for in depth analysis of all of Geno's throws from this year.

As to the point of the system he played in or the help he had around him, the exact same things were said of RG3. The Baylor offense is very similar to the one Holgerson runs, and features a lot of shotgun/pistol. RG3 also had up to 3 WR that would be future top 100 or so picks (Kendall Wright (1st round), Josh Gordon (2nd round supplementary), and soon to be Terrance Williams (probably 1st rounder).

I know what you've felt you've seen, as I too felt some concern over that too. I actually was very skeptical of RG3 last year too for many of the same reasons. However, I think I've come to realize that a QB's success in the NFL is impacted very little by their time in college.

Ultimately what makes the difference between a QB being successful or not is dependent upon 3 factors: talent, mental make-up, and health. If the guy has the talent, is both mature enough and a hard enough worker, and doesn't suffer from chronic injuries/health, he will ultimately be successful.

I know that makes it sound so simple, but in hindsight it is. It's whether or not you can determine what's in a man's heart through interviews that's tricky. And sometimes health isn't something that comes up at this point in their lives. Those are the things that make talented guys bust.

I personally feel Geno has more then enough talent to be a very successful QB. Mentally, he's certainly a hard worker and by all accounts very smart and studied. One of the few "knocks" that I've heard that would concern me is that he gets down on himself a little too hard and doesn't control his emotions that well. Other then that, he's got everything you look for, and given the team around him this year, his getting upset is more then understandable.

Saying he's not a legit prospect either because of his system in college or the talent around him, is not really a knock on him. Those things simply make it much harder for the average fan to properly evaluate the man's skill set.

Personally, I have Geno 1A over Wilson who's 1B only due to health concerns. Either has the talent no doubt to be a very good, to even elite, QB in this league. Do they have the mentality to unleash that greatness is the only thing in doubt IMO (and concussions for Wilson).
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samsel23


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigGUNS04 wrote:
Bobikus wrote:
bigGUNS04 wrote:
lol I don't think I will ever be sold on G. Smith...He is a checkdown machine... Rolling Eyes


Already proven false.


Lol...ok...

I guess the games lie. Rolling Eyes There really isn't one thing about him that makes me go "WOW!"

pistol formation, probably averaged 45 att./ game if not more, there really isn't any tape that proves his accuracy of deep throws.

NOBODY on this forum is talking about his 2 recievers that he had this year. Tavon Austin LED all recievers with the most YAC this year. Stedman Bailey had a lot as well.

Tavon Austin:

1289 Rec Yds
909 YAC
70.5% of his yards were YAC---hellooo check downs and screens.

Stedman Bailey:

1501 rec yds
553 yac
36% of his were YAC
-Not to mention most of his stats came from god aweful teams.

You take away those TWO recievers and Geno Smith averaged a whopping 4.9 yards/ attempt Laughing Whatever. All I know is there isn't a CLEAR cut #1 QB this year, which makes me hesitate on taking him #1. If the Chiefs could draft luke joeckel or even star lotulelei and got a QB in round 2 I would be perfectly happy.

Imagine: OL w/ Joeckel

Joeckel (lt), Albert (lg), Hudson (c), Asamoah (rg), Stephenson (rt)

DL w/ Star

jackson (de), Poe (nt), lotulelei (de) --- I personally see this as a lot better DL.I see Star creating much more havoc in a 34 than KC has seen from any 34 de.

Picking a RD 2 QB such as Glennon. Signing A. Smith or trading to Seattle for Flynn. Groom the future. If he doesn't pan out, draft one in '14...by god they have to be better than the '13 class.


Pretty sure Miami said the same thing when they selected Jake Long over Matt Ryan. And now Jake Long might be on his way out before they even have a QBOTF developed.

I'm not even sure Albert is more suited for LG anymore, IIRC he played OT in JUCO. The only time he was at LG was at Virginia. Why take a guy with more experience at LT and move him to an unfamiliar LG spot (although he could). It's like you want proven QB, but not the proven OT.

I'm also confused about Star. Haven't Chiefs fans (I say this loosely) complained about so many 1st round DL in recent years, and now they want another?? I do think Star is a GREAT prospect, but neither him or Joekel will improve last years record.
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^Not to mention Reid hasn't had much success picking DT's, so if he wanted Star over a QB, that alone would cause me some pause. Although Reid's Eagles took d-line in the 1st round 6 times (out of 12 1st round picks made), so he's certainly inclined to look that way.

The rest broke down like:
QB - 1
O-line - 2
WR - 2
CB - 1

I'm no expert on the Eagles, but I did watch them a lot during Reid's tenure, especially early on in the 2000's. From this look, he goes need in the 1st as much as anythign else. Sure, I'm confident the picks made were highly regarded from a BPA standpoint, but each time they were filling a need. You don't take 6 guys in the 1st round in 13 years for your d-line if you're consistently playing well on the line.
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HiccupGuy


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
^Not to mention Reid hasn't had much success picking DT's, so if he wanted Star over a QB, that alone would cause me some pause. Although Reid's Eagles took d-line in the 1st round 6 times (out of 12 1st round picks made), so he's certainly inclined to look that way.

The rest broke down like:
QB - 1
O-line - 2
WR - 2
CB - 1

I'm no expert on the Eagles, but I did watch them a lot during Reid's tenure, especially early on in the 2000's. From this look, he goes need in the 1st as much as anythign else. Sure, I'm confident the picks made were highly regarded from a BPA standpoint, but each time they were filling a need. You don't take 6 guys in the 1st round in 13 years for your d-line if you're consistently playing well on the line.


I am glad Reid isn't going to be making the picks, just going to put his 2 cents in. Thank you Dorsey.
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bigGUNS04


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RGIII led ncaa in throws, completions, and TD passes from LOS for 2 years straight....he was never EVER known for his screen passes...wtf?
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HiccupGuy


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigGUNS04 wrote:
RGIII led ncaa in throws, completions, and TD passes from LOS for 2 years straight....he was never EVER known for his screen passes...wtf?


Where are you getting your stats? Unless I am reading what you said wrong. No he didn't. Matt Barkley beat him in all of those stats in 2011 and Luck beat him in TD's in 2010 and then Tied with him in TD's in 2011. Those are just the 2 that I looked up.
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Chiefs_5627


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigGUNS04 wrote:
RGIII led ncaa in throws, completions, and TD passes from LOS for 2 years straight....he was never EVER known for his screen passes...wtf?


I think what Bigs was getting at is a guy can be pigeon holed by the offense they run but what that link will show you is that he can make all the other throws and do them quite well. The only argument I'm seeing from you is that his wr have a lot of yac which is basically the premise for a west coast offense. And yes you take away a guys top two wrs his average will go down. Laughing
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Rearviewmirror


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigGUNS04 wrote:
RGIII led ncaa in throws, completions, and TD passes from LOS for 2 years straight....he was never EVER known for his screen passes...wtf?


Tons of scouts said RG3 only threw deep balls, screens, and curls. Gimmick offense. The offense you play in doesn't mean as much as the talent you have to make the throws and the smarts to adjust to a higher level.
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OILCHIEFS


Joined: 02 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigGUNS04 wrote:
Bobikus wrote:
bigGUNS04 wrote:
lol I don't think I will ever be sold on G. Smith...He is a checkdown machine... Rolling Eyes


Already proven false.


Lol...ok...

I guess the games lie. Rolling Eyes There really isn't one thing about him that makes me go "WOW!"

pistol formation, probably averaged 45 att./ game if not more, there really isn't any tape that proves his accuracy of deep throws.

NOBODY on this forum is talking about his 2 recievers that he had this year. Tavon Austin LED all recievers with the most YAC this year. Stedman Bailey had a lot as well.

Tavon Austin:

1289 Rec Yds
909 YAC
70.5% of his yards were YAC---hellooo check downs and screens.

Stedman Bailey:

1501 rec yds
553 yac
36% of his were YAC
-Not to mention most of his stats came from god aweful teams.

You take away those TWO recievers and Geno Smith averaged a whopping 4.9 yards/ attempt Laughing Whatever. All I know is there isn't a CLEAR cut #1 QB this year, which makes me hesitate on taking him #1. If the Chiefs could draft luke joeckel or even star lotulelei and got a QB in round 2 I would be perfectly happy.

Imagine: OL w/ Joeckel

Joeckel (lt), Albert (lg), Hudson (c), Asamoah (rg), Stephenson (rt)

DL w/ Star

jackson (de), Poe (nt), lotulelei (de) --- I personally see this as a lot better DL.I see Star creating much more havoc in a 34 than KC has seen from any 34 de.

Picking a RD 2 QB such as Glennon. Signing A. Smith or trading to Seattle for Flynn. Groom the future. If he doesn't pan out, draft one in '14...by god they have to be better than the '13 class.





Man you can't eliminate half the body of work to get a picture of a guy. I challenge you to take any QB and take away his 2 best receivers and check their stats. He averaged 39 ATT/game and it makes a lot of sense as the WVU defense was terrible and Geno was always playing from behind.

Also if you've watched any of his game tape you will see multiple times he has delivered a perfect deep throw to Bailey on the post route that Bailey runs a lot.

Moving Albert to LG makes no sense. Essentially it takes Albert away from the only position he has played in the NFL and it makes the drafting of Allen a terrible decision. No one draft a G in the 2nd round to be a depth player.

Obviously im a big supporter in Smith but I've made sure to do all my research before hand.
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bigGUNS04


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how doesnt moving albert to lg make sense? he was a guard his whole college career. . .

and yeah I did plenty of research on G. Smith to form an opinion. It also upsets me big time that he declined the senior bowl, as if he has something to hide or work on in private. . .

If I had the time I could go through this board from years past and find many of you guys on the glenn dorsey, t. jackson bandwagon saying these two are going to be dominant...

YAC is crucial for a WCO, but I want a play maker...NOT someone who relies on their WR for the majority of the work. You can get mediocre QBs to rely heavily on the skill set of a WR. Dear God please take somebody other than G. Smith at #1 Angel
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samsel23


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigGUNS04 wrote:
how doesnt moving albert to lg make sense? he was a guard his whole college career. . .

and yeah I did plenty of research on G. Smith to form an opinion. It also upsets me big time that he declined the senior bowl, as if he has something to hide or work on in private. . .

If I had the time I could go through this board from years past and find many of you guys on the glenn dorsey, t. jackson bandwagon saying these two are going to be dominant...

YAC is crucial for a WCO, but I want a play maker...NOT someone who relies on their WR for the majority of the work. You can get mediocre QBs to rely heavily on the skill set of a WR. Dear God please take somebody other than G. Smith at #1 Angel


How does moving Albert make any sense? You don't need a better LT than Albert to win in thus league.

Jackson has been alot better than expected. Dorsey has knee problems, but was a good enough run stuffer. Whats this have to do with anything?

You can also go through alot our posts and find guys who turned out great.
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bigGUNS04


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, im just a [inappropriate/removed] for thinking these things... Embarassed

You guys are ALWAYS right on your professional assesments of talent. Heck I'd hire half of you for my NFL scouting team. Laughing

moving albert inside makes PLENTY of sense. If you guys want to debate about it, thats fine. I have my opinions you have yours. I'm just saying I would hate to see G. Smith under center in kc
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Chiefs_5627


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigGUNS04 wrote:
yeah, im just a [inappropriate/removed] for thinking these things... Embarassed

You guys are ALWAYS right on your professional assesments of talent. Heck I'd hire half of you for my NFL scouting team. Laughing

moving albert inside makes PLENTY of sense. If you guys want to debate about it, thats fine. I have my opinions you have yours. I'm just saying I would hate to see G. Smith under center in kc

So what exactly is your criticism of Geno again?

You say he only throws short stuff, so we put a link to a detailed breakdown refuting that.

You criticize his system, but it's a very similar type of system to what RG3 ran, as well as others like Kaepernick, Newton, Bradford, and Weeden ran.

You say he's carried by two good WRs but so are a lot of other guys. Also, isn't that kind of negated by how terrible the entire rest of his team was this year?
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