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Rygar
Joined: 23 Dec 2012
Posts: 218
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 Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| At least there are no franchise QBs in Arizona that Bruce Arians can destroy with his slow-developing pass plays that seldom have checkdown options, and his utterly Martzian play-calling. |
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CJ4life
Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 5706
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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Roy Horton to the Eagles seems like a good fit to me if the Cardinals don't retain him.
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| driftwood wrote: | | haggis wrote: | | i bet if you had sould after he jumped a little cough here and there usually follow |
lol, wait what? |
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11sanchez11
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 6188
Location: Tucson, AZ
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Thelonebillsfan wrote: | | Horton turned a bunch of no name guys and late round picks into a top 5 defense. |
Peterson, Washington, Campbell, Dockett, Rhodes, Wilson, Big Dan. Not exactly no name guys or late round picks but yes he did an amazing job with them.
Maybe Arian bombs this year, we get the #1 pick next year, fire Arians, and hire Horton! |
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Rygar
Joined: 23 Dec 2012
Posts: 218
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| DirtyDez wrote: | | So why did Big Ben like this guy so much? Never got in his face or something? |
Because Arians took the shackles off him. Roethlisberger hated hearing people claim that the key to the Steelers' success was to limit him (I don't blame him either), and Arians allowed him more input into the offense. The problem was, Arians' offense was vertical at a time when the offensive line was deteriorating, and it was never adjusted to account for that. This lack of adjustment is exactly why the Steelers fired him last off-season. Furthermore, his play-calling often didn't make much sense. Arians' system honestly reminds me more of Mike Martz than Ken Whisenhunt.
Basically, Roethlisberger felt appreciated by Arians, which is why he wasn't very happy to see him go. |
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JammerHammer21
Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 18071
Location: Anywhere
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| 11sanchez11 wrote: | | Thelonebillsfan wrote: | | Horton turned a bunch of no name guys and late round picks into a top 5 defense. |
Peterson, Washington, Campbell, Dockett, Rhodes, Wilson, Big Dan. Not exactly no name guys or late round picks but yes he did an amazing job with them.
Maybe Arian bombs this year, we get the #1 pick next year, fire Arians, and hire Horton! |
I think Horton is going to be too POed at Keim and everyone else to ever do that.
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| Bohlmann20 (On The 95 Cleveland Browns Staff) wrote: | | Lombardi - Isn't that the guy the trophy is named after? If so, top 3 coach of all time. |
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Rejuvenation
Joined: 20 Sep 2010
Posts: 1237
Location: Delaware
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| The Cardinals sure love their ex-Steelers... |
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FourThreeMafia
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 40056
Location: East of Sixburgh
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Rygar wrote: | | DirtyDez wrote: | | So why did Big Ben like this guy so much? Never got in his face or something? |
Because Arians took the shackles off him. Roethlisberger hated hearing people claim that the key to the Steelers' success was to limit him (I don't blame him either), and Arians allowed him more input into the offense. The problem was, Arians' offense was vertical at a time when the offensive line was deteriorating, and it was never adjusted to account for that. This lack of adjustment is exactly why the Steelers fired him last off-season. Furthermore, his play-calling often didn't make much sense. Arians' system honestly reminds me more of Mike Martz than Ken Whisenhunt.
Basically, Roethlisberger felt appreciated by Arians, which is why he wasn't very happy to see him go. |
This, and Arians coddled Ben. Ben wanted to look for big plays all the time and Arians system allowed it. While the big plays happened more often under Arians, that logic ultimately hurt more than it helped and killed alot of drives, because they were trying to force the big play pretty much all the time.
Notice Ben at the beginning of 2012 before his injury. He was extremely efficient and playing some of the best ball he ever played. It went against what Ben wanted to do, but Haley still kept him upright and kept the offense flowing. If it werent for Ben;s injury, Haley and the offense would get much more respect and the Steelers would be in the playoffs.
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| cluelessororke wrote: | | I am going to laugh in your face when they don't even sniff WR until day three of the draft |
Still waiting for your laugh.... |
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FourThreeMafia
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 40056
Location: East of Sixburgh
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Rejuvenation wrote: | | The Cardinals sure love their ex-Steelers... |
Haha...I said the same thing in another thread.
They seem hellbent on continuing to sign Steelers castoffs.
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| cluelessororke wrote: | | I am going to laugh in your face when they don't even sniff WR until day three of the draft |
Still waiting for your laugh.... |
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kethnaab
Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 6986
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| khodder wrote: | | BaltimoreTerp wrote: | | Only downside I see for a team looking to add Horton is that it's likely that you'll only get 1 year out of him and then you're looking for a DC again next year when he finally gets hired as a head coach. Good problem to have, though. |
Everyone thought Ray was going to be a HC this year, and then even his current team (inexplicably) passed on him. |
everyone thought Whiz was going to be the Steelers' head coach, and then we passed on him....
as for Ben, you can have him for 3 first round draft choices.
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jrry32
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 31530
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| FourThreeMafia wrote: | | Rygar wrote: | | DirtyDez wrote: | | So why did Big Ben like this guy so much? Never got in his face or something? |
Because Arians took the shackles off him. Roethlisberger hated hearing people claim that the key to the Steelers' success was to limit him (I don't blame him either), and Arians allowed him more input into the offense. The problem was, Arians' offense was vertical at a time when the offensive line was deteriorating, and it was never adjusted to account for that. This lack of adjustment is exactly why the Steelers fired him last off-season. Furthermore, his play-calling often didn't make much sense. Arians' system honestly reminds me more of Mike Martz than Ken Whisenhunt.
Basically, Roethlisberger felt appreciated by Arians, which is why he wasn't very happy to see him go. |
This, and Arians coddled Ben. Ben wanted to look for big plays all the time and Arians system allowed it. While the big plays happened more often under Arians, that logic ultimately hurt more than it helped and killed alot of drives, because they were trying to force the big play pretty much all the time.
Notice Ben at the beginning of 2012 before his injury. He was extremely efficient and playing some of the best ball he ever played. It went against what Ben wanted to do, but Haley still kept him upright and kept the offense flowing. If it werent for Ben;s injury, Haley and the offense would get much more respect and the Steelers would be in the playoffs. |
My feeling was that you guys jumped from one extreme to another with Haley from Arians.
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FourThreeMafia
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 40056
Location: East of Sixburgh
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| jrry32 wrote: | | FourThreeMafia wrote: | | Rygar wrote: | | DirtyDez wrote: | | So why did Big Ben like this guy so much? Never got in his face or something? |
Because Arians took the shackles off him. Roethlisberger hated hearing people claim that the key to the Steelers' success was to limit him (I don't blame him either), and Arians allowed him more input into the offense. The problem was, Arians' offense was vertical at a time when the offensive line was deteriorating, and it was never adjusted to account for that. This lack of adjustment is exactly why the Steelers fired him last off-season. Furthermore, his play-calling often didn't make much sense. Arians' system honestly reminds me more of Mike Martz than Ken Whisenhunt.
Basically, Roethlisberger felt appreciated by Arians, which is why he wasn't very happy to see him go. |
This, and Arians coddled Ben. Ben wanted to look for big plays all the time and Arians system allowed it. While the big plays happened more often under Arians, that logic ultimately hurt more than it helped and killed alot of drives, because they were trying to force the big play pretty much all the time.
Notice Ben at the beginning of 2012 before his injury. He was extremely efficient and playing some of the best ball he ever played. It went against what Ben wanted to do, but Haley still kept him upright and kept the offense flowing. If it werent for Ben;s injury, Haley and the offense would get much more respect and the Steelers would be in the playoffs. |
My feeling was that you guys jumped from one extreme to another with Haley from Arians. |
What extremes are you speaking of?
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| cluelessororke wrote: | | I am going to laugh in your face when they don't even sniff WR until day three of the draft |
Still waiting for your laugh.... |
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TheKillerNacho
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 7391
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:07 am Post subject: |
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Really not a fan of this hire, especially with Ray Horton leaving. How Arians went from being literally thrown into retirement by the Steelers and becoming a Head Coach a couple years later is mind-boggling... even with his impressive (but most likely inflated) year with the Colts... I like the Cardinals so I wish them well but I think this is the worst HC hiring this off-season by far... good luck, Cardinals fans.
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With much cheese,
Nacho Simulation Football League |
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jrry32
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 31530
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| FourThreeMafia wrote: |
What extremes are you speaking of? |
From too vertical to not vertical enough. Feel like Haley utilized Wallace poorly even if Wallace wasn't playing his best.
I think with the guys you had, the offense should always have been vertical leaning. Just not as much emphasis as Arians placed on it...plus Arians idea of a short pass is a bubble screen.
But maybe a system leaning on hi-low reads that emphasizes it's checkdown options to Ben more than Arians did. A system that would really utilize Wallace well as a deep threat.
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Boise&cards Fan
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 2941
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:08 am Post subject: |
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Just a Sad day to be a Cardinals fan.
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That right I won. Thank you NS922 for the Sig. |
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FourThreeMafia
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 40056
Location: East of Sixburgh
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| jrry32 wrote: | | FourThreeMafia wrote: |
What extremes are you speaking of? |
From too vertical to not vertical enough. Feel like Haley utilized Wallace poorly even if Wallace wasn't playing his best.
I think with the guys you had, the offense should always have been vertical leaning. Just not as much emphasis as Arians placed on it...plus Arians idea of a short pass is a bubble screen.
But maybe a system leaning on hi-low reads that emphasizes it's checkdown options to Ben more than Arians did. A system that would really utilize Wallace well as a deep threat. |
To a point, you are correct.
Wallace was pretty bad this year. People think we simply werent going deep, but Wallace had issues getting open all seaosn. When he did get open, he dropped several passes.
(This isnt meant to dog Wallace...Id still like to keep him, but he had a down year in 2012 and wasnt just the offense)
Also, another reason we had trouble going vertical was the failure to establish the play action, which is directily a result of a poor running game.
We didnt go vertical as much, but I think we wouldve saw more if a) Wallace had played better and b) we were able to establish a ground game.
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| cluelessororke wrote: | | I am going to laugh in your face when they don't even sniff WR until day three of the draft |
Still waiting for your laugh.... |
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