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Football Mensa


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Jenkins was injured during the time the trade went down so he could not be traded. Reports to the contrary are pure fabrication.


You truly make me LOL. Look at the date when they were trying to trade for Jenkins....pup list has nothing to do with it...fabrication huh ?...That is truly funny.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Football Mensa wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Jenkins was injured during the time the trade went down so he could not be traded. Reports to the contrary are pure fabrication.


You truly make me LOL.


Glad I could help. You can't trade players on PUP. Unless the new CBA allows for it, which I have not seen. Feel free to provide evidence that it does.
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JWingate


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Football Mensa wrote:
JWingate wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:
JWingate wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:
Jerry never trades anyone who can actually bring a premium pick. He let Martellus walk. He could have traded Jenkins. He just isn't savy enough to figure it out. Jerry trades second rounders ( Fasano) packaged with a lb for a 4th rounder. It isn't hard to understand why Dallas is looking in.

I don't even have the hope that he figures it out. The Pats are making a run for their 6th superbowl under BB. They cut or trade older players for draft picks and remain strong. We remain mediocre. Frustrating as hell.

To say Jerry isn't savvy enough for trading is way off base. The thing is the NFL values these players differently than what the fans do, the value wasn't there to trade him and no one was interested, as I am sure he took offers.

He was offered a second for Martellus by the Bengals. He had multiple offerss from the Colts who traded a second to Miami for Vontae Davis. He had offers, he just doesn't make the move.

Jerry is a very intelligent man, he knows how to get the best offers. In both situations he was hoping that each player could help us get into the superbowl in their respective years. I am not sure how accurate the Bengals giving the 2nd for Bennett is even though I heard the same report, I believe speculation was a 2nd round pick. There was also no report of the Colts being interested in Mike Jenkins, they specifically wanted someone who could have helped them right away and Jenkins couldn't have done that.


http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/7972613/indianapolis-colts-making-bid-dalllas-cowboys-mike-jenkins-source-says


http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/2012/05/colts-show-interest-in-mike-je.html/

...andwhy do you think Jerry is intelligent regarding football ? Not being a smart arse....

Never said he was smart regarding football just an intelligent man and knows how to wheel and deal.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Football Mensa wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Jenkins was injured during the time the trade went down so he could not be traded. Reports to the contrary are pure fabrication.


You truly make me LOL. Look at the date when they were trying to trade for Jenkins....pup list has nothing to do with it...fabrication huh ?...That is truly funny.


Re-Read what I said. And look at when the Colts traded for Davis.

But okay.
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G-osh


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Football Mensa wrote:
Jerry never trades anyone who can actually bring a premium pick. He let Martellus walk. He could have traded Jenkins. He just isn't savy enough to figure it out. Jerry trades second rounders ( Fasano) packaged with a lb for a 4th rounder. It isn't hard to understand why Dallas is looking in.

I don't even have the hope that he figures it out. The Pats are making a run for their 6th superbowl under BB. They cut or trade older players for draft picks and remain strong. We remain mediocre. Frustrating as hell.


Yes! This has bugged me for like ten years. We hold on to guys until they have no value. We should be the first to see the cracks in a player, and trade them before the rest of the league can see said cracks. Evil or Very Mad
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G-osh


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralDissaray wrote:
JWingate wrote:
G-osh wrote:
Dboys88-82 wrote:
While it seems to make sense, there must be a reason why it never happens.


It happens, just not with the Cowboys. We don't seem to trade anybody Confused! I believe Matt Cassel and Jared Allen were both tag and trades. That's just off the top of my head. I want to keep Spencer and use him as a LOLB on 1st and 2nd, and as a LDE on 3rd and in the nickel; however, if we don't keep him, then I certainly hope we can tag and trade him.

If we were to do this I would do it to move up in the draft, like doing

Dallas gets:
6th overall

Cleveland gets:
18th overall
Anthony Spencer
Conditional 2014 pick


I don't know all the particulars, and if someone does I would appreciate clarification. If franchised, can a team seeking a trade for Spencer negotiate a contract extension, and then basically he signs it after the trade is officially approved, or do they have to wait until the year after?

The team that makes the most sense to me is Indianapolis. They have about 40 mil in cap space. Dwight Freeney is 32, a free agent, and not a great fit for a 3-4 anyway. We could even lower the price to a first next year, since they only have 4 picks this year, and no 2nd. The only problem I see is that we would have to sacrifice the future by restructuring a number of contracts to get in under the cap.


I believe Spencer would have to sign the tag, and then he can be traded. After that a team could renegotiate a contract extension, as the original team could if not traded, but there is a time limited before the franchise tag becomes permanent for the year.
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MaddHatter


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We would have no leverage due to the cap hit and lack of cap space ($11m of the maybe $15-20m going to one guy with 10 more signings needed?) and would likely get less than the compensatory pick we'd get by letting him walk. Either re-sign him or let him walk
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MaddHatter


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also don't get why people (some here, some elsewhere) don't think we have the cap room to resign Spencer. Give him an Ahmad Brooks type contract and it's a $3m cap hit vs. a $10.5m cap hit. He gets a $1m salary plus $10m signing bonus (makes $11m) and we only eat $3m in cap hit. Then give him $4m, $5m, $7m etc through the other 5 years and you have the makings of a pretty solid contract.
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htfryar


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaddHatter wrote:
I also don't get why people (some here, some elsewhere) don't think we have the cap room to resign Spencer. Give him an Ahmad Brooks type contract and it's a $3m cap hit vs. a $10.5m cap hit. He gets a $1m salary plus $10m signing bonus (makes $11m) and we only eat $3m in cap hit. Then give him $4m, $5m, $7m etc through the other 5 years and you have the makings of a pretty solid contract.


If he was willing to accept that, we should do it. But, last year when we started negotiations with him, he was asking for DeMarcus Ware level pay. Contract terms have to be agreed to by both sides and he seems to be looking for more than the contract you suggested.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People embellish our cap issues. The Penalty hurt us, but we can restructure and move enough things around to be in a decent spot yearly. Of course, there is a toll to eventually be paid. I just personally donít want to re-sign Spencer. I think we could, and I am sure we will look into it though.
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MaddHatter


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

htfryar wrote:
MaddHatter wrote:
I also don't get why people (some here, some elsewhere) don't think we have the cap room to resign Spencer. Give him an Ahmad Brooks type contract and it's a $3m cap hit vs. a $10.5m cap hit. He gets a $1m salary plus $10m signing bonus (makes $11m) and we only eat $3m in cap hit. Then give him $4m, $5m, $7m etc through the other 5 years and you have the makings of a pretty solid contract.


If he was willing to accept that, we should do it. But, last year when we started negotiations with him, he was asking for DeMarcus Ware level pay. Contract terms have to be agreed to by both sides and he seems to be looking for more than the contract you suggested.


Ware is 7yrs 70m so I agree - $10m a year is a bit steep but even if we did that, it's not like we couldn't make it work. $20m SB is $4m/yr plus a $1m salary is still only $5m hit in 2013.
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Football Mensa


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Jenkins was injured during the time the trade went down so he could not be traded. Reports to the contrary are pure fabrication.


You truly make me LOL. Look at the date when they were trying to trade for Jenkins....pup list has nothing to do with it...fabrication huh ?...That is truly funny.


Re-Read what I said. And look at when the Colts traded for Davis.

But okay.


Again look at the date when they were trying to trade for Jenkins. The Davis trade had nothing to do with it as the need for Davis wouldn't have been there if they got Jenkins. Keep up the entertainment.
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Dallas94Ware


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Tag & Trade? Reply with quote

GrassyKnoll wrote:
I've heard an idea mentioned on ESPN radio out of Dallas that intrigues me. The idea is to somehow get under the cap through cuts, extensions, or other reworking gimmicks enough to tag Spencer again & ten trade him. I think it's Skin Wade of the Ben & Skin radio show that is raving about this. He seems to believe we could get a 2nd & 3rd round pick for Spencer by doing this instead of letting him walk for nothing. Any thoughts out there on this idea?


While the idea of this works, you realize how little you'll get for him at that point, right?

He may be coming off of his best season, but when you're tagging a player then looking to trade him, teams know you're desperate to get rid of him - at that size of a cap space he'll take, you can't rightly hold onto him without making room elsewhere. And that desperation to move him to prevent that huge of a cap hit, is going to bring down the value. Other teams know your situation, and will part ways with picks or players of much lesser value. Leaving you to decide to take the big cap hit and keep him, or get a deal done and lower that number which you could have done in the first place anyway.
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Dallas94Ware


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaddHatter wrote:
I also don't get why people (some here, some elsewhere) don't think we have the cap room to resign Spencer. Give him an Ahmad Brooks type contract and it's a $3m cap hit vs. a $10.5m cap hit. He gets a $1m salary plus $10m signing bonus (makes $11m) and we only eat $3m in cap hit. Then give him $4m, $5m, $7m etc through the other 5 years and you have the makings of a pretty solid contract.


This depends on what Spencer (and his agent) feels he can get elsewhere. This is his job, and he wants to be paid the most he can just as any of us do. If he feels he can squeeze 5, 6 million a year off of a needy team and get a contract length that leaves him another big contract or payday in the somewhat near future, he's gone if we don't tag him.
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GrassyKnoll


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am fully aware of the leverage issues with tagging Spencer & then trying o trade him. However, this is overrated for two reasons. First, there are several possible suitors for a trade which drives up his value. Second, if we don't line the offers we can always try & work out a extension fir him & rescind the tag.
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