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whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 3164
Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:23 pm    Post subject: Can someone explain something to me…? Reply with quote

Why does it seem that Steve Spagnuolo is getting a pass here?

Look, I’ve heard all the old excuses for Spags a thousand times… “He needs better players”, “He needs more time”, “Sean Payton wasn’t here” and on and on. My response to all of it is BULL CRAP! Now maybe I’m in the minority on this but I simply cannot and will not hang players out to dry while at the same time allowing the DC to get a pass here. All coaches main job is to get to most production out of the talent they have and while the Saints defenders deserve most of the blame for such a horrid performance this season, the DC (Spagnuolo) also should be held accountable as well. I’m so sick of hearing about how Sean Payton wasn’t here this season. Mickey Loomis has already came out and said that that would not be used as an excuse for failure. People need to stop with the whole, “Spags needs his type of players here”. The fact is that Spagnuolo made his name in New York with an unbelievable defensive line that the Saints are YEARS away from having. The fact is that the Saints DO NOT has nor will have the so called Spags type of players. They are currently not on the roster and the Saints have neither the draft picks or cap room to acquire them, so if that is the case and Spagnuolo can ONLY succeed in the NFL with those type of players and were that far away from acquiring them… what is the point of keeping Spagnuolo?

Maybe it’s just me but I realize as a Saints fan that this defense lacks talent and this organization is strapped in their ability to add more and it’s a franchise that invest it’s money on the offensive side of the ball. The bottom line is that the Saints don’t need a DC that says he needs certain type of players in order to make his scheme work… they need a DC who will take what the Saints have and build a defense around the talent that would put the most productive unit on the field.

Save me the “ya can’t make chicken soup out of chicken crap”!!!

The fact is that for as bad as you might feel the players were this season, Steve Spagnuolo did not and COULD NOT find a way to utilize the talent he had to the best of his ability. Instead he oversaw the worst defense in league history. Whether it was stubbornness, pride or whatever it just didn’t work and he failed miserably and if this team is to oust multiple defenders because of their poor performance than Steve Spagnuolo should be right along with them out the door!

WHODAT
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't be mad if Spags got the can, but I wouldn't be mad if he was given another year either. The defense DID look much better towards the end of the year so I want to give him another year to see if they keep improving.
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FLOODx


Joined: 26 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
I wouldn't be mad if Spags got the can, but I wouldn't be mad if he was given another year either. The defense DID look much better towards the end of the year so I want to give him another year to see if they keep improving.


I feel the same way. Wouldn't be mad if he goes IF we hire a better DC. Won't be mad if he gets another year. If he doesn't reasonably improve the defense next season, then he should definitely be fired.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FLOODx wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
I wouldn't be mad if Spags got the can, but I wouldn't be mad if he was given another year either. The defense DID look much better towards the end of the year so I want to give him another year to see if they keep improving.


I feel the same way. Wouldn't be mad if he goes IF we hire a better DC. Won't be mad if he gets another year. If he doesn't reasonably improve the defense next season, then he should definitely be fired.


So with that thought process... your fine with drafting yet another class of defenders for a DC who is basically on a one more year and hope situation?

Don't get me wrong, I think Spags can be a good DC but he needs great players to do so. He's not the type of coach that is going to take a less talented unit and get them to overachieve. Some coaches just don't have that ability and I feel Spagnuolo is in that category.

I guess im just in the mold of, Lets cut our losses now and see it for what it was (a failure). Move in another direction with a new DC that can modivate as well as scheme.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
FLOODx wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
I wouldn't be mad if Spags got the can, but I wouldn't be mad if he was given another year either. The defense DID look much better towards the end of the year so I want to give him another year to see if they keep improving.


I feel the same way. Wouldn't be mad if he goes IF we hire a better DC. Won't be mad if he gets another year. If he doesn't reasonably improve the defense next season, then he should definitely be fired.


So with that thought process... your fine with drafting yet another class of defenders for a DC who is basically on a one more year and hope situation?

Don't get me wrong, I think Spags can be a good DC but he needs great players to do so. He's not the type of coach that is going to take a less talented unit and get them to overachieve. Some coaches just don't have that ability and I feel Spagnuolo is in that category.

I guess im just in the mold of, Lets cut our losses now and see it for what it was (a failure). Move in another direction with a new DC that can modivate as well as scheme.

But the defense improved and this is a different situation worm, we weren't just a bad defense, we were arguably the worst defense EVER. We couldn't stop a college team from scoring, get Spags another good DE, a safety that can actually provide some sort of coverage ability and lets see what he can do.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
FLOODx wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
I wouldn't be mad if Spags got the can, but I wouldn't be mad if he was given another year either. The defense DID look much better towards the end of the year so I want to give him another year to see if they keep improving.


I feel the same way. Wouldn't be mad if he goes IF we hire a better DC. Won't be mad if he gets another year. If he doesn't reasonably improve the defense next season, then he should definitely be fired.


So with that thought process... your fine with drafting yet another class of defenders for a DC who is basically on a one more year and hope situation?

Don't get me wrong, I think Spags can be a good DC but he needs great players to do so. He's not the type of coach that is going to take a less talented unit and get them to overachieve. Some coaches just don't have that ability and I feel Spagnuolo is in that category.

I guess im just in the mold of, Lets cut our losses now and see it for what it was (a failure). Move in another direction with a new DC that can modivate as well as scheme.

But the defense improved and this is a different situation worm, we weren't just a bad defense, we were arguably the worst defense EVER. We couldn't stop a college team from scoring, get Spags another good DE, a safety that can actually provide some sort of coverage ability and lets see what he can do.


BUt Harp... on the real, coulden't that be said for anyone who gets fired in the NFL?

If Lovie SMith had a better offensive tackle and another receiver, woulden't he still be in Chi-Town?

Had Rob Ryan not lost 6 starting defenders throughout the year and Romeo not continued to throw picks, would JJ had fired him?

MIke Mularkey just got canned after only one season in Jacksonville... what would people say if he came out and said that he just needed more time and better players?

Did the Saints defense get better as the season went on... sure, but when your the worst in history there is no other way to go but up. THe Saints were still giving up tremendous yardage and in the NFL your only as good as your last game and defensivly against Carolina the Saints defense was pathetic.

I'm not knocking ya'lls stance with Spags but I just can't agree with it.
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FLOODx


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He was thrown into a tough situation. If we hired a different DC, I wouldn't mind at all.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FLOODx wrote:
He was thrown into a tough situation. If we hired a different DC, I wouldn't mind at all.


That is the point Flood... Spags wasent thrown into anything, he choose to become the Saints DC. He had other job offers but he choose the Saints. Im quite sure he reviewed and evaluated the teams personnel before making that decision as well.

THe fact is that Spags felt he could make this defensive unit competitive and he failed and it's no ones fault but his own...

My opinion, (and I know we all have one) he should be fired.
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QB Connoisseur


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm fine if we get rid of him, but I would really want us to move to a 3-4.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

QB Connoisseur wrote:
I'm fine if we get rid of him, but I would really want us to move to a 3-4.


You and I are on the same page here...
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thesolution


Joined: 18 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

QB Connoisseur wrote:
I'm fine if we get rid of him, but I would really want us to move to a 3-4.


If you switch to a 3-4 you added more problems to an already bad defense.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thesolution wrote:
QB Connoisseur wrote:
I'm fine if we get rid of him, but I would really want us to move to a 3-4.


If you switch to a 3-4 you added more problems to an already bad defense.


Scoop, were the worst defense in NFL history... save me the "34 switch just brings more problems". If anything, the switch would finally force the Saints to cut ties with aging players that they seem to not want to.

At least the switch would give them the reason to move on... whats the worst that could happen? We break our own record? lol
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QB Connoisseur


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
thesolution wrote:
QB Connoisseur wrote:
I'm fine if we get rid of him, but I would really want us to move to a 3-4.


If you switch to a 3-4 you added more problems to an already bad defense.


Scoop, were the worst defense in NFL history... save me the "34 switch just brings more problems". If anything, the switch would finally force the Saints to cut ties with aging players that they seem to not want to.

At least the switch would give them the reason to move on... whats the worst that could happen? We break our own record? lol


I'd like you to imagine a pass rush with Barkevious Mingo and Martez Wilson as the outside linebackers in a 3-4. Our pass rush would be ridiculously good.
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thesolution


Joined: 18 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
thesolution wrote:
QB Connoisseur wrote:
I'm fine if we get rid of him, but I would really want us to move to a 3-4.


If you switch to a 3-4 you added more problems to an already bad defense.


Scoop, were the worst defense in NFL history... save me the "34 switch just brings more problems". If anything, the switch would finally force the Saints to cut ties with aging players that they seem to not want to.

At least the switch would give them the reason to move on... whats the worst that could happen? We break our own record? lol


It would bring you more problems. You now create problems at the MLB positions. Lofton and Hawthrone isn't 3-4 MLB. The base 3-4 defense want work. The only defense I think fits this personnel is a Hybrid Multiple Front.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thesolution wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
thesolution wrote:
QB Connoisseur wrote:
I'm fine if we get rid of him, but I would really want us to move to a 3-4.


If you switch to a 3-4 you added more problems to an already bad defense.


Scoop, were the worst defense in NFL history... save me the "34 switch just brings more problems". If anything, the switch would finally force the Saints to cut ties with aging players that they seem to not want to.

At least the switch would give them the reason to move on... whats the worst that could happen? We break our own record? lol


It would bring you more problems. You now create problems at the MLB positions. Lofton and Hawthrone isn't 3-4 MLB. The base 3-4 defense want work. The only defense I think fits this personnel is a Hybrid Multiple Front.


Not many teams run a strict 34 base anymore... of course the Saints would initially have to run a multi front with a lot of different looks as they progressvly convert but at least it would open up our optitions at pass rusher in the draft.
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