| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
killdawabbit
Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 5581
Location: Somewhere you're not.
|
 Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:14 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
|
| Phire wrote: | Nobody should be blaming people for looking at the situation pragmatically.
These are just the facts. College coaches with no NFL experience have not had the greatest of transitions throughout history. Chip Kelly is a brilliant football coach, and I'm excited for him. But that excitement doesn't compensate for the fact that he has never coached millionaires and professional athletes in general. It's a different landscape.
Chip Kelly will basically be directing the operations in Philadelphia, but without much experience himself. Sure, between Shurmur and Davis he'll have the necessary help, but it's still Chip's vision that's going to make the wheels turn. If not, why is he the head coach?
Then getting into Shurmur and Davis. Again, if we're looking at this pragmatically, can you really blame people for being pessimistic?
Davis has failed in his two stints as defensive coordinator. No organization throughout his pro career has ever kept him for more than 3 seasons. If he's a productive, quality member of your staff, you'd think someone at some point would have kept him around longer than 3 years.
Shurmur isn't a bad coach by any means, but he's also not someone you can really get excited for. If my memory serves me right, he's only been an offensive coordinator for 2 or so seasons with St. Louis, where he had some success.
You still get a bad taste in your mouth because he served on Reid's staff for 10 or so years, the same guy we just fired.
Is outright trashing the team at this point warranted? Absolutely not. Jim Johnson was an unknown coach who had some bad marks on his resume before becoming the legend he is now in Philadelphia.
But you also can't really get mad at the people looking at this situation with some pessimism either. This team has been letting us down for how long? We're used to it, we're expecting it.
Reid did his homework with Jim Johnson.
So we have to put our trust in Chip and hope he knows what he's doing with this coaching staff.
But it still remains that Chip, and even Howie Roseman, are largely doing things for the first time and without any or a whole lot of experience at this level. |
The point you're missing is not that there isn't a reason for some pessimism or a reason for some optimism, it's that (particularly on the pessimism side) people are flat out overdoing it. The team may very well suck next year. Or not. We really don't know. We have very little to go on. Even past records for any of the coaches (and yes, I am including Kelly) are not really good indicators. The rest of the staff is different, the players are different, the FO is different. So on and so forth. It's not like any of them has been so absolutely dismal that failure is inevitable. Then again, Kelly has only been successful in college, and the other coaches haven't been world beaters, either. You could guess, but there's really no way of predicting this season...at all. Even if you were to hapen to get it right, it would be flat out dumb luck.
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Phire
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 39262
Location: #championchip 2012 HoF
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| killdawabbit wrote: | | Phire wrote: | Nobody should be blaming people for looking at the situation pragmatically.
These are just the facts. College coaches with no NFL experience have not had the greatest of transitions throughout history. Chip Kelly is a brilliant football coach, and I'm excited for him. But that excitement doesn't compensate for the fact that he has never coached millionaires and professional athletes in general. It's a different landscape.
Chip Kelly will basically be directing the operations in Philadelphia, but without much experience himself. Sure, between Shurmur and Davis he'll have the necessary help, but it's still Chip's vision that's going to make the wheels turn. If not, why is he the head coach?
Then getting into Shurmur and Davis. Again, if we're looking at this pragmatically, can you really blame people for being pessimistic?
Davis has failed in his two stints as defensive coordinator. No organization throughout his pro career has ever kept him for more than 3 seasons. If he's a productive, quality member of your staff, you'd think someone at some point would have kept him around longer than 3 years.
Shurmur isn't a bad coach by any means, but he's also not someone you can really get excited for. If my memory serves me right, he's only been an offensive coordinator for 2 or so seasons with St. Louis, where he had some success.
You still get a bad taste in your mouth because he served on Reid's staff for 10 or so years, the same guy we just fired.
Is outright trashing the team at this point warranted? Absolutely not. Jim Johnson was an unknown coach who had some bad marks on his resume before becoming the legend he is now in Philadelphia.
But you also can't really get mad at the people looking at this situation with some pessimism either. This team has been letting us down for how long? We're used to it, we're expecting it.
Reid did his homework with Jim Johnson.
So we have to put our trust in Chip and hope he knows what he's doing with this coaching staff.
But it still remains that Chip, and even Howie Roseman, are largely doing things for the first time and without any or a whole lot of experience at this level. |
The point you're missing is not that there isn't a reason for some pessimism or a reason for some optimism, it's that (particularly on the pessimism side) people are flat out overdoing it. The team may very well suck next year. Or not. We really don't know. We have very little to go on. Even past records for any of the coaches (and yes, I am including Kelly) are not really good indicators. The rest of the staff is different, the players are different, the FO is different. So on and so forth. It's not like any of them has been so absolutely dismal that failure is inevitable. Then again, Kelly has only been successful in college, and the other coaches haven't been world beaters, either. You could guess, but there's really no way of predicting this season...at all. Even if you were to hapen to get it right, it would be flat out dumb luck. |
Good indicators or not, it's the only indicators available.
Chip Kelly having no pro experience is not even an indicator. It's a fact. And it's more detrimental than it is helpful. We know Chip has had success coaching students, but what about 33 year old millionaire veterans?
It's also a fact that no organization has ever kept Billy Davis around for more than a 3 year span. And the guy has over 20 years of NFL experience.
How do you explain that? A good, quality, hard working coach would be retained longer than that. It's also a fact that Billy Davis' two defenses that he coordinated were dismal and improved ten-fold after he left.
If your philosophy is to always "wait and see" then what's the point of discussion and speculation? You're allowed to have an initial reaction and gut feeling even if it might be wrong.
_________________
 | theuntouchable wrote: | | Think about this phire. I am the real chow. |
| stevec0008 wrote: | | I read all the time, and laugh, a lot. Mostly at oland. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
killdawabbit
Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 5581
Location: Somewhere you're not.
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Phire wrote: | | killdawabbit wrote: | | Phire wrote: | Nobody should be blaming people for looking at the situation pragmatically.
These are just the facts. College coaches with no NFL experience have not had the greatest of transitions throughout history. Chip Kelly is a brilliant football coach, and I'm excited for him. But that excitement doesn't compensate for the fact that he has never coached millionaires and professional athletes in general. It's a different landscape.
Chip Kelly will basically be directing the operations in Philadelphia, but without much experience himself. Sure, between Shurmur and Davis he'll have the necessary help, but it's still Chip's vision that's going to make the wheels turn. If not, why is he the head coach?
Then getting into Shurmur and Davis. Again, if we're looking at this pragmatically, can you really blame people for being pessimistic?
Davis has failed in his two stints as defensive coordinator. No organization throughout his pro career has ever kept him for more than 3 seasons. If he's a productive, quality member of your staff, you'd think someone at some point would have kept him around longer than 3 years.
Shurmur isn't a bad coach by any means, but he's also not someone you can really get excited for. If my memory serves me right, he's only been an offensive coordinator for 2 or so seasons with St. Louis, where he had some success.
You still get a bad taste in your mouth because he served on Reid's staff for 10 or so years, the same guy we just fired.
Is outright trashing the team at this point warranted? Absolutely not. Jim Johnson was an unknown coach who had some bad marks on his resume before becoming the legend he is now in Philadelphia.
But you also can't really get mad at the people looking at this situation with some pessimism either. This team has been letting us down for how long? We're used to it, we're expecting it.
Reid did his homework with Jim Johnson.
So we have to put our trust in Chip and hope he knows what he's doing with this coaching staff.
But it still remains that Chip, and even Howie Roseman, are largely doing things for the first time and without any or a whole lot of experience at this level. |
The point you're missing is not that there isn't a reason for some pessimism or a reason for some optimism, it's that (particularly on the pessimism side) people are flat out overdoing it. The team may very well suck next year. Or not. We really don't know. We have very little to go on. Even past records for any of the coaches (and yes, I am including Kelly) are not really good indicators. The rest of the staff is different, the players are different, the FO is different. So on and so forth. It's not like any of them has been so absolutely dismal that failure is inevitable. Then again, Kelly has only been successful in college, and the other coaches haven't been world beaters, either. You could guess, but there's really no way of predicting this season...at all. Even if you were to hapen to get it right, it would be flat out dumb luck. |
Good indicators or not, it's the only indicators available.
Chip Kelly having no pro experience is not even an indicator. It's a fact. And it's more detrimental than it is helpful. We know Chip has had success coaching students, but what about 33 year old millionaire veterans?
It's also a fact that no organization has ever kept Billy Davis around for more than a 3 year span. And the guy has over 20 years of NFL experience.
How do you explain that? A good, quality, hard working coach would be retained longer than that. It's also a fact that Billy Davis' two defenses that he coordinated were dismal and improved ten-fold after he left.
If your philosophy is to always "wait and see" then what's the point of discussion and speculation? You're allowed to have an initial reaction and gut feeling even if it might be wrong. |
You're right. The Eagles will suck this year and continue sucking - if they don't make any major changes - in perpetuity because the coaches don't have pristine records or enough experience. You can see into the future. The sad part is I'm only using a very tiny bit of hyperbole here... It's absolutely ridiculous.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Phire
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 39262
Location: #championchip 2012 HoF
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| killdawabbit wrote: | | Phire wrote: | | killdawabbit wrote: | | Phire wrote: | Nobody should be blaming people for looking at the situation pragmatically.
These are just the facts. College coaches with no NFL experience have not had the greatest of transitions throughout history. Chip Kelly is a brilliant football coach, and I'm excited for him. But that excitement doesn't compensate for the fact that he has never coached millionaires and professional athletes in general. It's a different landscape.
Chip Kelly will basically be directing the operations in Philadelphia, but without much experience himself. Sure, between Shurmur and Davis he'll have the necessary help, but it's still Chip's vision that's going to make the wheels turn. If not, why is he the head coach?
Then getting into Shurmur and Davis. Again, if we're looking at this pragmatically, can you really blame people for being pessimistic?
Davis has failed in his two stints as defensive coordinator. No organization throughout his pro career has ever kept him for more than 3 seasons. If he's a productive, quality member of your staff, you'd think someone at some point would have kept him around longer than 3 years.
Shurmur isn't a bad coach by any means, but he's also not someone you can really get excited for. If my memory serves me right, he's only been an offensive coordinator for 2 or so seasons with St. Louis, where he had some success.
You still get a bad taste in your mouth because he served on Reid's staff for 10 or so years, the same guy we just fired.
Is outright trashing the team at this point warranted? Absolutely not. Jim Johnson was an unknown coach who had some bad marks on his resume before becoming the legend he is now in Philadelphia.
But you also can't really get mad at the people looking at this situation with some pessimism either. This team has been letting us down for how long? We're used to it, we're expecting it.
Reid did his homework with Jim Johnson.
So we have to put our trust in Chip and hope he knows what he's doing with this coaching staff.
But it still remains that Chip, and even Howie Roseman, are largely doing things for the first time and without any or a whole lot of experience at this level. |
The point you're missing is not that there isn't a reason for some pessimism or a reason for some optimism, it's that (particularly on the pessimism side) people are flat out overdoing it. The team may very well suck next year. Or not. We really don't know. We have very little to go on. Even past records for any of the coaches (and yes, I am including Kelly) are not really good indicators. The rest of the staff is different, the players are different, the FO is different. So on and so forth. It's not like any of them has been so absolutely dismal that failure is inevitable. Then again, Kelly has only been successful in college, and the other coaches haven't been world beaters, either. You could guess, but there's really no way of predicting this season...at all. Even if you were to hapen to get it right, it would be flat out dumb luck. |
Good indicators or not, it's the only indicators available.
Chip Kelly having no pro experience is not even an indicator. It's a fact. And it's more detrimental than it is helpful. We know Chip has had success coaching students, but what about 33 year old millionaire veterans?
It's also a fact that no organization has ever kept Billy Davis around for more than a 3 year span. And the guy has over 20 years of NFL experience.
How do you explain that? A good, quality, hard working coach would be retained longer than that. It's also a fact that Billy Davis' two defenses that he coordinated were dismal and improved ten-fold after he left.
If your philosophy is to always "wait and see" then what's the point of discussion and speculation? You're allowed to have an initial reaction and gut feeling even if it might be wrong. |
You're right. The Eagles will suck this year and continue sucking - if they don't make any major changes - in perpetuity because the coaches don't have pristine records or enough experience. You can see into the future. The sad part is I'm only using a very tiny bit of hyperbole here... It's absolutely ridiculous. |
It's very clear who the people are who can't handle hearing anything bad about the Eagles 
_________________
| theuntouchable wrote: | | Think about this phire. I am the real chow. |
| stevec0008 wrote: | | I read all the time, and laugh, a lot. Mostly at oland. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
killdawabbit
Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 5581
Location: Somewhere you're not.
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Phire wrote: | | killdawabbit wrote: | | Phire wrote: | | killdawabbit wrote: | | Phire wrote: | Nobody should be blaming people for looking at the situation pragmatically.
These are just the facts. College coaches with no NFL experience have not had the greatest of transitions throughout history. Chip Kelly is a brilliant football coach, and I'm excited for him. But that excitement doesn't compensate for the fact that he has never coached millionaires and professional athletes in general. It's a different landscape.
Chip Kelly will basically be directing the operations in Philadelphia, but without much experience himself. Sure, between Shurmur and Davis he'll have the necessary help, but it's still Chip's vision that's going to make the wheels turn. If not, why is he the head coach?
Then getting into Shurmur and Davis. Again, if we're looking at this pragmatically, can you really blame people for being pessimistic?
Davis has failed in his two stints as defensive coordinator. No organization throughout his pro career has ever kept him for more than 3 seasons. If he's a productive, quality member of your staff, you'd think someone at some point would have kept him around longer than 3 years.
Shurmur isn't a bad coach by any means, but he's also not someone you can really get excited for. If my memory serves me right, he's only been an offensive coordinator for 2 or so seasons with St. Louis, where he had some success.
You still get a bad taste in your mouth because he served on Reid's staff for 10 or so years, the same guy we just fired.
Is outright trashing the team at this point warranted? Absolutely not. Jim Johnson was an unknown coach who had some bad marks on his resume before becoming the legend he is now in Philadelphia.
But you also can't really get mad at the people looking at this situation with some pessimism either. This team has been letting us down for how long? We're used to it, we're expecting it.
Reid did his homework with Jim Johnson.
So we have to put our trust in Chip and hope he knows what he's doing with this coaching staff.
But it still remains that Chip, and even Howie Roseman, are largely doing things for the first time and without any or a whole lot of experience at this level. |
The point you're missing is not that there isn't a reason for some pessimism or a reason for some optimism, it's that (particularly on the pessimism side) people are flat out overdoing it. The team may very well suck next year. Or not. We really don't know. We have very little to go on. Even past records for any of the coaches (and yes, I am including Kelly) are not really good indicators. The rest of the staff is different, the players are different, the FO is different. So on and so forth. It's not like any of them has been so absolutely dismal that failure is inevitable. Then again, Kelly has only been successful in college, and the other coaches haven't been world beaters, either. You could guess, but there's really no way of predicting this season...at all. Even if you were to hapen to get it right, it would be flat out dumb luck. |
Good indicators or not, it's the only indicators available.
Chip Kelly having no pro experience is not even an indicator. It's a fact. And it's more detrimental than it is helpful. We know Chip has had success coaching students, but what about 33 year old millionaire veterans?
It's also a fact that no organization has ever kept Billy Davis around for more than a 3 year span. And the guy has over 20 years of NFL experience.
How do you explain that? A good, quality, hard working coach would be retained longer than that. It's also a fact that Billy Davis' two defenses that he coordinated were dismal and improved ten-fold after he left.
If your philosophy is to always "wait and see" then what's the point of discussion and speculation? You're allowed to have an initial reaction and gut feeling even if it might be wrong. |
You're right. The Eagles will suck this year and continue sucking - if they don't make any major changes - in perpetuity because the coaches don't have pristine records or enough experience. You can see into the future. The sad part is I'm only using a very tiny bit of hyperbole here... It's absolutely ridiculous. |
It's very clear who the people are who can't handle hearing anything bad about the Eagles |
Yep. That's it. You caught me. It's because I'm such a massive homer. It had nothing to do with the multiple /facepalm inducing post it was in reply to...
You guys are right. The Eagles will suck. Might as well not even play the season. It's all over before it even started.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
birdman0069
Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 6054
Location: Key West, FL
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Nabbs4u wrote: | | birdman0069 wrote: |
Where do you see 6 wins on our schedule?
|
Going into last season where did you see 12 loses? Be honest! Fact is the NFL has to much parity in the league with up's and downs along with injury riddled teams to make any kind of concrete prediction. Just as it was last season. You know when the Vikings were picking again in the top 5 in the 2013 draft or the Redskins were destined for 5-7 wins and 4th place in the NFCE? Carolina and the Eagles were going to make a step forward and contend for the Division with 10-12 wins? If anything Bird this is without a doubt the one year you can't make a viable prediction because none of us to a man have a clue what is in store with a Entirely New Coaching Staff. No longer can we "Assume" (you know the saying right) Reid will find a way to make the playoffs. It's a brand new era and until 2-3 years past we won't know how the Kelly hiring will have unfolded. Anyone thinking one way or the other this first season good/bad is the tell tell all for his tenure is fooling themselves. Much like everyone who jumped all over the Dream Team BS two years ago. |
I saw an 8-8 team last season with declining high end talent. Teams with the most talent win in this league. People can think we have a talented roster but in reality that's just not true. Look at what we have on defense. Both Nnambi and DRC have one foot out the door and the other on a banana peel. One may be back but the odds are long that both will be back. Every other position in our secondary is in dire need of an upgrade. Looking at all the players in our secondary, all we have is 2nd and 3rd string talent. I'm not saying by any means that you need an all pro at every position. The difference in talent is staggering. Same goes for the LB'ing core. Kendrick's may be a nice piece in our 3-4 set, but that's it. Every other player currently on the roster is a nice depth player but the starting talent is lacking. Our front 3 has a couple of nice players, but that it. In the next 2-3 years we should have 7-9 new players on Defence. Those players need time to learn and new system and time to jell as a unit. That takes time and tolerating mistakes along the way. This alone spells a long season ahead and we haven't discussed the lack of a WR that can go over the middle without ending up in ICU, growing pains of a young QB, an aging O-line and a RB that is going to abused if the last seasons are any indication of what we have to look forward to.
The biggest problems are the overall talent level of the players on the roster. Howie and Jeff already stated that we got away from building through the draft the last several seasons but we would be returning to that philosophy. This team isn't very good and people grossly over estimate how so many changes are going to affect what happens on the field. This is going to be a process and things will be painful for a while.
To say we won't be very competitive next season is an understatement. That's not pessimistic, that's just reality.
_________________
Props to Eagles _808 on the sig.
PE, the new poster child for birth control.
Birdman, slowest to 10K |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Phire
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 39262
Location: #championchip 2012 HoF
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| killdawabbit wrote: | | Phire wrote: | | killdawabbit wrote: | | Phire wrote: | | killdawabbit wrote: | | Phire wrote: | Nobody should be blaming people for looking at the situation pragmatically.
These are just the facts. College coaches with no NFL experience have not had the greatest of transitions throughout history. Chip Kelly is a brilliant football coach, and I'm excited for him. But that excitement doesn't compensate for the fact that he has never coached millionaires and professional athletes in general. It's a different landscape.
Chip Kelly will basically be directing the operations in Philadelphia, but without much experience himself. Sure, between Shurmur and Davis he'll have the necessary help, but it's still Chip's vision that's going to make the wheels turn. If not, why is he the head coach?
Then getting into Shurmur and Davis. Again, if we're looking at this pragmatically, can you really blame people for being pessimistic?
Davis has failed in his two stints as defensive coordinator. No organization throughout his pro career has ever kept him for more than 3 seasons. If he's a productive, quality member of your staff, you'd think someone at some point would have kept him around longer than 3 years.
Shurmur isn't a bad coach by any means, but he's also not someone you can really get excited for. If my memory serves me right, he's only been an offensive coordinator for 2 or so seasons with St. Louis, where he had some success.
You still get a bad taste in your mouth because he served on Reid's staff for 10 or so years, the same guy we just fired.
Is outright trashing the team at this point warranted? Absolutely not. Jim Johnson was an unknown coach who had some bad marks on his resume before becoming the legend he is now in Philadelphia.
But you also can't really get mad at the people looking at this situation with some pessimism either. This team has been letting us down for how long? We're used to it, we're expecting it.
Reid did his homework with Jim Johnson.
So we have to put our trust in Chip and hope he knows what he's doing with this coaching staff.
But it still remains that Chip, and even Howie Roseman, are largely doing things for the first time and without any or a whole lot of experience at this level. |
The point you're missing is not that there isn't a reason for some pessimism or a reason for some optimism, it's that (particularly on the pessimism side) people are flat out overdoing it. The team may very well suck next year. Or not. We really don't know. We have very little to go on. Even past records for any of the coaches (and yes, I am including Kelly) are not really good indicators. The rest of the staff is different, the players are different, the FO is different. So on and so forth. It's not like any of them has been so absolutely dismal that failure is inevitable. Then again, Kelly has only been successful in college, and the other coaches haven't been world beaters, either. You could guess, but there's really no way of predicting this season...at all. Even if you were to hapen to get it right, it would be flat out dumb luck. |
Good indicators or not, it's the only indicators available.
Chip Kelly having no pro experience is not even an indicator. It's a fact. And it's more detrimental than it is helpful. We know Chip has had success coaching students, but what about 33 year old millionaire veterans?
It's also a fact that no organization has ever kept Billy Davis around for more than a 3 year span. And the guy has over 20 years of NFL experience.
How do you explain that? A good, quality, hard working coach would be retained longer than that. It's also a fact that Billy Davis' two defenses that he coordinated were dismal and improved ten-fold after he left.
If your philosophy is to always "wait and see" then what's the point of discussion and speculation? You're allowed to have an initial reaction and gut feeling even if it might be wrong. |
You're right. The Eagles will suck this year and continue sucking - if they don't make any major changes - in perpetuity because the coaches don't have pristine records or enough experience. You can see into the future. The sad part is I'm only using a very tiny bit of hyperbole here... It's absolutely ridiculous. |
It's very clear who the people are who can't handle hearing anything bad about the Eagles |
Yep. That's it. You caught me. It's because I'm such a massive homer. It had nothing to do with the multiple /facepalm inducing post it was in reply to...
You guys are right. The Eagles will suck. Might as well not even play the season. It's all over before it even started. |
Hilariously childish reaction is what it sounds like.
There is nothing wrong with looking at the facts and feeling underwhelmed by this coaching staff with the understanding that those initial feeling can be wrong.
_________________
| theuntouchable wrote: | | Think about this phire. I am the real chow. |
| stevec0008 wrote: | | I read all the time, and laugh, a lot. Mostly at oland. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
killdawabbit
Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 5581
Location: Somewhere you're not.
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Phire wrote: | | killdawabbit wrote: | | Phire wrote: | | killdawabbit wrote: | | Phire wrote: | | killdawabbit wrote: | | Phire wrote: | Nobody should be blaming people for looking at the situation pragmatically.
These are just the facts. College coaches with no NFL experience have not had the greatest of transitions throughout history. Chip Kelly is a brilliant football coach, and I'm excited for him. But that excitement doesn't compensate for the fact that he has never coached millionaires and professional athletes in general. It's a different landscape.
Chip Kelly will basically be directing the operations in Philadelphia, but without much experience himself. Sure, between Shurmur and Davis he'll have the necessary help, but it's still Chip's vision that's going to make the wheels turn. If not, why is he the head coach?
Then getting into Shurmur and Davis. Again, if we're looking at this pragmatically, can you really blame people for being pessimistic?
Davis has failed in his two stints as defensive coordinator. No organization throughout his pro career has ever kept him for more than 3 seasons. If he's a productive, quality member of your staff, you'd think someone at some point would have kept him around longer than 3 years.
Shurmur isn't a bad coach by any means, but he's also not someone you can really get excited for. If my memory serves me right, he's only been an offensive coordinator for 2 or so seasons with St. Louis, where he had some success.
You still get a bad taste in your mouth because he served on Reid's staff for 10 or so years, the same guy we just fired.
Is outright trashing the team at this point warranted? Absolutely not. Jim Johnson was an unknown coach who had some bad marks on his resume before becoming the legend he is now in Philadelphia.
But you also can't really get mad at the people looking at this situation with some pessimism either. This team has been letting us down for how long? We're used to it, we're expecting it.
Reid did his homework with Jim Johnson.
So we have to put our trust in Chip and hope he knows what he's doing with this coaching staff.
But it still remains that Chip, and even Howie Roseman, are largely doing things for the first time and without any or a whole lot of experience at this level. |
The point you're missing is not that there isn't a reason for some pessimism or a reason for some optimism, it's that (particularly on the pessimism side) people are flat out overdoing it. The team may very well suck next year. Or not. We really don't know. We have very little to go on. Even past records for any of the coaches (and yes, I am including Kelly) are not really good indicators. The rest of the staff is different, the players are different, the FO is different. So on and so forth. It's not like any of them has been so absolutely dismal that failure is inevitable. Then again, Kelly has only been successful in college, and the other coaches haven't been world beaters, either. You could guess, but there's really no way of predicting this season...at all. Even if you were to hapen to get it right, it would be flat out dumb luck. |
Good indicators or not, it's the only indicators available.
Chip Kelly having no pro experience is not even an indicator. It's a fact. And it's more detrimental than it is helpful. We know Chip has had success coaching students, but what about 33 year old millionaire veterans?
It's also a fact that no organization has ever kept Billy Davis around for more than a 3 year span. And the guy has over 20 years of NFL experience.
How do you explain that? A good, quality, hard working coach would be retained longer than that. It's also a fact that Billy Davis' two defenses that he coordinated were dismal and improved ten-fold after he left.
If your philosophy is to always "wait and see" then what's the point of discussion and speculation? You're allowed to have an initial reaction and gut feeling even if it might be wrong. |
You're right. The Eagles will suck this year and continue sucking - if they don't make any major changes - in perpetuity because the coaches don't have pristine records or enough experience. You can see into the future. The sad part is I'm only using a very tiny bit of hyperbole here... It's absolutely ridiculous. |
It's very clear who the people are who can't handle hearing anything bad about the Eagles |
Yep. That's it. You caught me. It's because I'm such a massive homer. It had nothing to do with the multiple /facepalm inducing post it was in reply to...
You guys are right. The Eagles will suck. Might as well not even play the season. It's all over before it even started. |
Hilariously childish reaction is what it sounds like.
There is nothing wrong with looking at the facts and feeling underwhelmed by this coaching staff with the understanding that those initial feeling can be wrong. |
Just giving back a little bit of what I'm seeing. It's a public service.
What's really childish is not looking at the facts in a complete manner and then jumping to a premature conclusion based on that anyway. And for the record, there has been no "understanding that those initial feelings can be wrong". At all.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Phire
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 39262
Location: #championchip 2012 HoF
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| killdawabbit wrote: | | Phire wrote: | | killdawabbit wrote: | | Phire wrote: | | killdawabbit wrote: | | Phire wrote: | | killdawabbit wrote: | | Phire wrote: | Nobody should be blaming people for looking at the situation pragmatically.
These are just the facts. College coaches with no NFL experience have not had the greatest of transitions throughout history. Chip Kelly is a brilliant football coach, and I'm excited for him. But that excitement doesn't compensate for the fact that he has never coached millionaires and professional athletes in general. It's a different landscape.
Chip Kelly will basically be directing the operations in Philadelphia, but without much experience himself. Sure, between Shurmur and Davis he'll have the necessary help, but it's still Chip's vision that's going to make the wheels turn. If not, why is he the head coach?
Then getting into Shurmur and Davis. Again, if we're looking at this pragmatically, can you really blame people for being pessimistic?
Davis has failed in his two stints as defensive coordinator. No organization throughout his pro career has ever kept him for more than 3 seasons. If he's a productive, quality member of your staff, you'd think someone at some point would have kept him around longer than 3 years.
Shurmur isn't a bad coach by any means, but he's also not someone you can really get excited for. If my memory serves me right, he's only been an offensive coordinator for 2 or so seasons with St. Louis, where he had some success.
You still get a bad taste in your mouth because he served on Reid's staff for 10 or so years, the same guy we just fired.
Is outright trashing the team at this point warranted? Absolutely not. Jim Johnson was an unknown coach who had some bad marks on his resume before becoming the legend he is now in Philadelphia.
But you also can't really get mad at the people looking at this situation with some pessimism either. This team has been letting us down for how long? We're used to it, we're expecting it.
Reid did his homework with Jim Johnson.
So we have to put our trust in Chip and hope he knows what he's doing with this coaching staff.
But it still remains that Chip, and even Howie Roseman, are largely doing things for the first time and without any or a whole lot of experience at this level. |
The point you're missing is not that there isn't a reason for some pessimism or a reason for some optimism, it's that (particularly on the pessimism side) people are flat out overdoing it. The team may very well suck next year. Or not. We really don't know. We have very little to go on. Even past records for any of the coaches (and yes, I am including Kelly) are not really good indicators. The rest of the staff is different, the players are different, the FO is different. So on and so forth. It's not like any of them has been so absolutely dismal that failure is inevitable. Then again, Kelly has only been successful in college, and the other coaches haven't been world beaters, either. You could guess, but there's really no way of predicting this season...at all. Even if you were to hapen to get it right, it would be flat out dumb luck. |
Good indicators or not, it's the only indicators available.
Chip Kelly having no pro experience is not even an indicator. It's a fact. And it's more detrimental than it is helpful. We know Chip has had success coaching students, but what about 33 year old millionaire veterans?
It's also a fact that no organization has ever kept Billy Davis around for more than a 3 year span. And the guy has over 20 years of NFL experience.
How do you explain that? A good, quality, hard working coach would be retained longer than that. It's also a fact that Billy Davis' two defenses that he coordinated were dismal and improved ten-fold after he left.
If your philosophy is to always "wait and see" then what's the point of discussion and speculation? You're allowed to have an initial reaction and gut feeling even if it might be wrong. |
You're right. The Eagles will suck this year and continue sucking - if they don't make any major changes - in perpetuity because the coaches don't have pristine records or enough experience. You can see into the future. The sad part is I'm only using a very tiny bit of hyperbole here... It's absolutely ridiculous. |
It's very clear who the people are who can't handle hearing anything bad about the Eagles |
Yep. That's it. You caught me. It's because I'm such a massive homer. It had nothing to do with the multiple /facepalm inducing post it was in reply to...
You guys are right. The Eagles will suck. Might as well not even play the season. It's all over before it even started. |
Hilariously childish reaction is what it sounds like.
There is nothing wrong with looking at the facts and feeling underwhelmed by this coaching staff with the understanding that those initial feeling can be wrong. |
Just giving back a little bit of what I'm seeing. It's a public service.
What's really childish is not looking at the facts in a complete manner and then jumping to a premature conclusion based on that anyway. And for the record, there has been no "understanding that those initial feelings can be wrong". At all. |
Looking at what facts in a complete manner? Your whole argument rests on the crux that we simply don't have the "complete facts" to make a reliable conclusive prediction.
That doesn't mean people aren't allowed to do so. Just because you don't think past experience is a good indicator of things to come, it doesn't mean that other people don't value past experience.
It's standard practice in this world to value a potential candidate's resume. How is that any different from what's happening here?
Please interpret for me the fact that Billy Davis was fired in under 3 years in both his defensive coordinator jobs. Please interpret for me why those defenses were bad, and were even worse in his second year.
| Quote: | | One disturbing trend is that in both of his stints as defensive coordinator, his defenses allowed more points per game the second year than they did the first. |
Then please take into account the standard practice of reviewing a person's resume in this world. Then proceed to tell us why concern is unwarranted or incomplete.
I think it goes without saying that the opinions of fans who aren't involved in the interviewing process, have never coached in the NFL, have never met these people always come with the assumption that what we say isn't final.
For me personally nothing I type on here is definitive and I completely understand I could be wrong. I've been wrong plenty of times before and look forward to being wrong more times in the future. And it does not bother me.
_________________
| theuntouchable wrote: | | Think about this phire. I am the real chow. |
| stevec0008 wrote: | | I read all the time, and laugh, a lot. Mostly at oland. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ninjapirate
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 28414
Location: Vegas
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
wabbit I think the real argument we need to make here is do we take teddy or clowney next year #1 overall>?
_________________
| UKEaglesFan wrote: | | Searching for Brooklyn Decker Camel on a work laptop - not the smartest thing I've ever done! |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
justo
Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 9113
Location: Hood River, Oregon
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| ninjapirate wrote: | | wabbit I tink the weal awgument we need to make hewe is do we take teddy or clowney next year #1 ovewall>? |
_________________
| jfinley88 wrote: | | Woke up in the shower wearing a frog costume with the nipples cut out and my face painted like a tiger |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nabbs4u
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 19207
Location: Carolina Kiltman on the Sig
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
It is possible to hold a conversation without quoting each and every post over and over again. Just saying. 
_________________
Bird Watch: LeSean McCoy
GM. 12^ Att. 200^ Avg. 4.2^ Rush yds 840^ TD 2}{Rec 54^ Rec yds 373^ TD 3 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dr. Philly
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 22874
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
Teddy heisman baby 2014
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hammertime52
Joined: 15 Jan 2012
Posts: 5106
Location: South Jersey
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
We hired a navy seal to be a trainer sounds interesting
profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/09/chip-kelly-hires-former-navy-seals-trainer-for-eagles-staff/
_________________
Bird Watch: Brent Celek
Catches: 41 Yards: 509 TDs: 1 EPIC Hurdles: 1 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kiltman
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 11022
Location: Flipadelphia
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Hammertime52 wrote: | We hired a navy seal to be a trainer sounds interesting
profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/09/chip-kelly-hires-former-navy-seals-trainer-for-eagles-staff/ |
Hopefully we are the most conditioned team in the league....especially on O it'll have to be a requirement to do the quick hurry up type stuff.
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
