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PackersGuy


Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 593
Location: Syracuse,Ny
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2Bigby0 wrote:
PackersGuy wrote:
2Bigby0 wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
Ketchup wrote:
He listed OT as our 2nd biggest need. With depth like Bulaga, Sherrod, Newhouse and Barclay, I wouldn't even consider it a need at all, much less a priority.


Yet Marshall Newhouse graded out as one of the worst offensive tackles in the NFL last year, and Derek Sherrod is coming back from a major injury. Our left tackle position regardless of how people want to sugarcoat it, the left tackle position is a HUGE question mark. Bryan Bulaga, when healthy, looked like a top 5 RT. Do we want to move him from there? And while our
run game improved with Don Barclay in the lineup afterBryan Bulaga went on the IR, he's still an avera
ge lineman at best. While I wouldn't grade it as a huge
need, I wouldn't write off at all. If the right offensive lineman was on the board, I'd have no qualms about taking another offensive tackle.


Marshall isn't that bad, but he's not that good either. To me, he's your 'run of the mill' average left tackle. He'd be better suited at RT. He actually graded out OK in pass blocking effiency. Amongst all the starting tackles in the NFL he ranked 19th. That's all starting tackles, not just left tackles.

I think it's VERY likely we move Bulaga to LT. I think he'll be a natural fit and he will be quite good over there.

That sets up a competition at RT between Sherrod, Newhouse, and Barclay.

I don't think LT is a very big question because we have options moving forward. We have talent on the roster. Don't forget about Andrew Datko either. It will be interesting to see his development. I just don't think tackle is a very big need at all. If anything, we need help alongside the interior in my opinion for depth purposes.



the way i look at it left tackle is a huge concern and newhouse is a below average blocker at best. the whole offensive line is. gb gave up 51 sacks!!! bro, thats terrible. and aaron rodgers was almost decapitated in seattle where he was sacked 8 times in the first half for a record and on top of that seattle finished with 11 sacks and tied a nfl record, thank god aaron is as tough as he is. gb just couldent block worth a damn last year. still there some hope with sittion and barclay and bulaga. and jeff saterday i think is done. i dont know how he made the pro bowl after getting benched in what? week 14


I think you should look at the numbers. Newhouse was amongst the top 20 starting NFL tackles in Pass Blocking Efficiency. That's pretty solid and certainly better than 'below average at best.'

Aaron Rodgers was charged with 14 of the 51 sacks this year for holding on to the ball too long. That's a very overlooked issue of our offense. Rodgers has a tendency to hang on to the ball for a little long. Also, Rodgers was amongst the tops in the league when it comes to most time to throw the ball, averaging about 2.7 seconds per pass attempt. That's pretty solid.

As for jfinley88, I agree with your statement about Sherrod being a natural LT. I'm really hoping he is the LT, however we already know Bulaga can play RT at a Pro Bowl level, and I think there is potential for him at LT. We know Bulaga can play in this league and at a high level. To me, what's the difference? RT or LT... With how teams shuffle their pass rushers to exploit matchups, it's the same. I like Bulaga at LT because I trust him. I view Sherrod essentially as a rookie. Maybe halfway through camp he shows he's a legitimate LT. I would certainly trust our coaching staff to make the right decision. But on this day, I would project Bulaga as our LT at this very moment, and that's because we haven't seen anything from Sherrod yet. Unfortunately a terrible injury took away last season from him



Hey man. I don't care about numbers. I have eyes and my eyes seen newhouse get whipped like cream. He is not the answer. The way I feel only bulaga and sitton are safe this off season I'm sure the genius GM TT will find some one. yes Rogers is have a little trouble holding on to the ball too long but the reason why I think he does that is because the line breaks down way too fast but it could also be because the receivers are not getting open but still that's just small stuff the bigger thing that concerns me is Rogers fumbleing issues
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2Bigby0


Joined: 02 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^^^ Just saying that the proof is in the pudding. Newhouse definitely needs help against the premier pass rushers in this league. But, he did hold is own against Jared Allen two weeks in a row. Of course people are going to bring up Seattle and New York. Fact is, those were horrible games for the entire team, not just Newhouse.

As for the comment about the starting offensive lineman, why in the world would we rebuild the offensive line? There are so many options already on the roster. In my opinion, the starting 5 is already on the roster, it's just up to our coaching to find the right combination.

And how could Rodgers problem with holding on to the ball be because of the offensive line 'breaks down' too fast? That almost doesn't even make sense. If the offensive line is breaking down in a game, one would think we have to throw short timing routes and screen passes.
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nfldraftguru1


Joined: 07 Feb 2009
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Location: Whitewater, WI
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PackersGuy wrote:
2Bigby0 wrote:
PackersGuy wrote:
2Bigby0 wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
Ketchup wrote:
He listed OT as our 2nd biggest need. With depth like Bulaga, Sherrod, Newhouse and Barclay, I wouldn't even consider it a need at all, much less a priority.


Yet Marshall Newhouse graded out as one of the worst offensive tackles in the NFL last year, and Derek Sherrod is coming back from a major injury. Our left tackle position regardless of how people want to sugarcoat it, the left tackle position is a HUGE question mark. Bryan Bulaga, when healthy, looked like a top 5 RT. Do we want to move him from there? And while our
run game improved with Don Barclay in the lineup afterBryan Bulaga went on the IR, he's still an avera
ge lineman at best. While I wouldn't grade it as a huge
need, I wouldn't write off at all. If the right offensive lineman was on the board, I'd have no qualms about taking another offensive tackle.


Marshall isn't that bad, but he's not that good either. To me, he's your 'run of the mill' average left tackle. He'd be better suited at RT. He actually graded out OK in pass blocking effiency. Amongst all the starting tackles in the NFL he ranked 19th. That's all starting tackles, not just left tackles.

I think it's VERY likely we move Bulaga to LT. I think he'll be a natural fit and he will be quite good over there.

That sets up a competition at RT between Sherrod, Newhouse, and Barclay.

I don't think LT is a very big question because we have options moving forward. We have talent on the roster. Don't forget about Andrew Datko either. It will be interesting to see his development. I just don't think tackle is a very big need at all. If anything, we need help alongside the interior in my opinion for depth purposes.



the way i look at it left tackle is a huge concern and newhouse is a below average blocker at best. the whole offensive line is. gb gave up 51 sacks!!! bro, thats terrible. and aaron rodgers was almost decapitated in seattle where he was sacked 8 times in the first half for a record and on top of that seattle finished with 11 sacks and tied a nfl record, thank god aaron is as tough as he is. gb just couldent block worth a damn last year. still there some hope with sittion and barclay and bulaga. and jeff saterday i think is done. i dont know how he made the pro bowl after getting benched in what? week 14


I think you should look at the numbers. Newhouse was amongst the top 20 starting NFL tackles in Pass Blocking Efficiency. That's pretty solid and certainly better than 'below average at best.'

Aaron Rodgers was charged with 14 of the 51 sacks this year for holding on to the ball too long. That's a very overlooked issue of our offense. Rodgers has a tendency to hang on to the ball for a little long. Also, Rodgers was amongst the tops in the league when it comes to most time to throw the ball, averaging about 2.7 seconds per pass attempt. That's pretty solid.

As for jfinley88, I agree with your statement about Sherrod being a natural LT. I'm really hoping he is the LT, however we already know Bulaga can play RT at a Pro Bowl level, and I think there is potential for him at LT. We know Bulaga can play in this league and at a high level. To me, what's the difference? RT or LT... With how teams shuffle their pass rushers to exploit matchups, it's the same. I like Bulaga at LT because I trust him. I view Sherrod essentially as a rookie. Maybe halfway through camp he shows he's a legitimate LT. I would certainly trust our coaching staff to make the right decision. But on this day, I would project Bulaga as our LT at this very moment, and that's because we haven't seen anything from Sherrod yet. Unfortunately a terrible injury took away last season from him



Hey man. I don't care about numbers. I have eyes and my eyes seen newhouse get whipped like cream. He is not the answer. The way I feel only bulaga and sitton are safe this off season I'm sure the genius GM TT will find some one. yes Rogers is have a little trouble holding on to the ball too long but the reason why I think he does that is because the line breaks down way too fast but it could also be because the receivers are not getting open but still that's just small stuff the bigger thing that concerns me is Rogers fumbleing issues

Right there you've already destroyed your argument. The more objective #s are better than the subjective and potentially biased opinion.
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ugLymayNe


Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 12566
Location: Wisconsin
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nfldraftguru1 wrote:
PackersGuy wrote:
Hey man. I don't care about numbers. I have eyes and my eyes seen newhouse get whipped like cream. He is not the answer. The way I feel only bulaga and sitton are safe this off season I'm sure the genius GM TT will find some one. yes Rogers is have a little trouble holding on to the ball too long but the reason why I think he does that is because the line breaks down way too fast but it could also be because the receivers are not getting open but still that's just small stuff the bigger thing that concerns me is Rogers fumbleing issues

Right there you've already destroyed your argument. The more objective #s are better than the subjective and potentially biased opinion.


That too.

Newhouse isn't that bad and we have yet to see a healthy Sherrod. Don't forget - he came in during the locked out offseason and barely had any NFL coaching heading into his first season. People are down on him for not being able to step in and win a job right away........but can you really expect a player that was viewed as a project step in right away? Then in his first game action(late in the season, mind you) he broke his leg in a freak injury. People complain he missed the 2012 season but what can you expect - guy broke his leg week 15. The medical staff didn't want to jeopardize his future. Common sense.

Fact is, we broke records with Newhouse in 2011 and he played well enough this year. Barclay also played decent off the bench at RT as well.............Combine that with the fact Sherrod will be back, healthy, and hungry and you really don't need an offensive tackle.






unless Bulaga hurt his hip Bo Jackson style(which he didn't)...Laughing
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HyponGrey


Joined: 23 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then again we did sign Kevin Hughes from the Rams. Though to me that screams "Camp Fodder"
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PossibleCabbage


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HyponGrey wrote:
Then again we did sign Kevin Hughes from the Rams. Though to me that screams "Camp Fodder"


It's also possible they just want to add depth to the OL. They went into the season last year with 7 OL on the roster. That means you're two injuries away from having to tap defensive linemen to play guard. The reason this happens is that OL#8 and OL#9 aren't good enough to win roster spots. There's no harm in picking up depth.
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PossibleCabbage wrote:
HyponGrey wrote:
Then again we did sign Kevin Hughes from the Rams. Though to me that screams "Camp Fodder"


It's also possible they just want to add depth to the OL. They went into the season last year with 7 OL on the roster. That means you're two injuries away from having to tap defensive linemen to play guard. The reason this happens is that OL#8 and OL#9 aren't good enough to win roster spots. There's no harm in picking up depth.


Teams only have 7 active on game day anyway. So long as the back end of the 53 is in constant flux and you have guys on the PS that know the system, it's not a huge deal.
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cooters22


Joined: 20 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

byzr wrote:
ditto with 2bigby0. our offensive line, WHEN HEALTHY, is good. they're not a running offensive line but they're a good passing offensive line. as long as the coaching staff is comfortable with the health of the offensive line i would draft for depth.
the two deep Safeties takes away the big play but we don't adjust well for it. the last couple games we did start adjusting and throwing screens and underneath passes but it was to little to late.


How can you guys say that? Our unit gave up a league high in sacks? I just think you guys are delusional.
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spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cooters22 wrote:
byzr wrote:
ditto with 2bigby0. our offensive line, WHEN HEALTHY, is good. they're not a running offensive line but they're a good passing offensive line. as long as the coaching staff is comfortable with the health of the offensive line i would draft for depth.
the two deep Safeties takes away the big play but we don't adjust well for it. the last couple games we did start adjusting and throwing screens and underneath passes but it was to little to late.


How can you guys say that? Our unit gave up a league high in sacks? I just think you guys are delusional.


A good chunk of those are because Rodgers eats the ball instead of forcing bad passes. I would estimate 1/3 of those sacks are on Rodgers. The other part comes from having that level of injuries on the OL. Bulaga was gimpy to start the season and then went down with the hip injury. That is a huge killer. Bulaga back, added in to hopefully Sherrod being an upgrade from Newhouse could be a huge boost to the OL, from players already on the roster.
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HyponGrey


Joined: 23 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cooters22 wrote:
byzr wrote:
ditto with 2bigby0. our offensive line, WHEN HEALTHY, is good. they're not a running offensive line but they're a good passing offensive line. as long as the coaching staff is comfortable with the health of the offensive line i would draft for depth.
the two deep Safeties takes away the big play but we don't adjust well for it. the last couple games we did start adjusting and throwing screens and underneath passes but it was to little to late.


How can you guys say that? Our unit gave up a league high in sacks? I just think you guys are delusional.
We think you're overreacting based on skewed #s
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2Bigby0


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cooters22 wrote:
byzr wrote:
ditto with 2bigby0. our offensive line, WHEN HEALTHY, is good. they're not a running offensive line but they're a good passing offensive line. as long as the coaching staff is comfortable with the health of the offensive line i would draft for depth.
the two deep Safeties takes away the big play but we don't adjust well for it. the last couple games we did start adjusting and throwing screens and underneath passes but it was to little to late.


How can you guys say that? Our unit gave up a league high in sacks? I just think you guys are delusional.


Well, it's actually second highest if you're going to throw stats around. And again, 14 of those sacks are on Aaron Rodgers. That's also a fact.

So, consider this... Our unit gave up 37 sacks with multiple backups all season. There needs to be improvement from our QB in getting rid of the ball. A large portion of the blame needs to go to playcalling. We faced 2-High Safety's all season, and during the early portion of the season we kept running vertical routes. How long do you expect an offensive line to block people? I've stated it numerous times but on average, Rodgers had 2.7 seconds to throw the football. That's a pretty solid number considering the Packers preach to their QB's to have the ball out in 2.5 seconds.

I just think you aren't really sure what you're talking about.
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General_Bean


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2Bigby0 wrote:
cooters22 wrote:
byzr wrote:
ditto with 2bigby0. our offensive line, WHEN HEALTHY, is good. they're not a running offensive line but they're a good passing offensive line. as long as the coaching staff is comfortable with the health of the offensive line i would draft for depth.
the two deep Safeties takes away the big play but we don't adjust well for it. the last couple games we did start adjusting and throwing screens and underneath passes but it was to little to late.


How can you guys say that? Our unit gave up a league high in sacks? I just think you guys are delusional.


Well, it's actually second highest if you're going to throw stats around. And again, 14 of those sacks are on Aaron Rodgers. That's also a fact.

So, consider this... Our unit gave up 37 sacks with multiple backups all season. There needs to be improvement from our QB in getting rid of the ball. A large portion of the blame needs to go to playcalling. We faced 2-High Safety's all season, and during the early portion of the season we kept running vertical routes. How long do you expect an offensive line to block people? I've stated it numerous times but on average, Rodgers had 2.7 seconds to throw the football. That's a pretty solid number considering the Packers preach to their QB's to have the ball out in 2.5 seconds.

I just think you aren't really sure what you're talking about.


I don't mean to interject (of course i do) but could the problem also be WR's / TE's not getting seperation? Yes, we do have a great set of WR's, but it just seems they get shoved around and are rarely open (not wide open, but like a comfortable pass for ARod)
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cooters22


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HyponGrey wrote:
cooters22 wrote:
byzr wrote:
ditto with 2bigby0. our offensive line, WHEN HEALTHY, is good. they're not a running offensive line but they're a good passing offensive line. as long as the coaching staff is comfortable with the health of the offensive line i would draft for depth.
the two deep Safeties takes away the big play but we don't adjust well for it. the last couple games we did start adjusting and throwing screens and underneath passes but it was to little to late.


How can you guys say that? Our unit gave up a league high in sacks? I just think you guys are delusional.
We think you're overreacting based on skewed #s


Our offense stunk last year, in comparison to years prior. What is skewed in that? Aaron couldn't get the ball down field. You may say Aaron holds the ball because he's waiting for something to open up down the field.
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cooters22


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2Bigby0 wrote:
cooters22 wrote:
byzr wrote:
ditto with 2bigby0. our offensive line, WHEN HEALTHY, is good. they're not a running offensive line but they're a good passing offensive line. as long as the coaching staff is comfortable with the health of the offensive line i would draft for depth.
the two deep Safeties takes away the big play but we don't adjust well for it. the last couple games we did start adjusting and throwing screens and underneath passes but it was to little to late.


How can you guys say that? Our unit gave up a league high in sacks? I just think you guys are delusional.


Well, it's actually second highest if you're going to throw stats around. And again, 14 of those sacks are on Aaron Rodgers. That's also a fact.

So, consider this... Our unit gave up 37 sacks with multiple backups all season. There needs to be improvement from our QB in getting rid of the ball. A large portion of the blame needs to go to playcalling. We faced 2-High Safety's all season, and during the early portion of the season we kept running vertical routes. How long do you expect an offensive line to block people? I've stated it numerous times but on average, Rodgers had 2.7 seconds to throw the football. That's a pretty solid number considering the Packers preach to their QB's to have the ball out in 2.5 seconds.

I just think you aren't really sure what you're talking about.


So Aaron is the only qb that holds onto the ball too long? All I know is that I watched the Super Bowl the past two years salivating at good OL's, and ours just doesn't compare. And if you can't see the difference then you honestly just don't know good line play. Part of the problem may be coaching, blocking system, etc. Either way, until our OL gets better this team will not make the playoffs. Nothing has changed on this team offensively with the exception of the OL, and our offense wasn't nearly as dangerous this year because of it. So don't give me WR separation, qb holding the ball, play calling garbage. Nothing has changed except the personal on our line.
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JBURGE25


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rodgers undeniably holds on to the ball too long in some situations. Sometimes it isn't the OLs fault.
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