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santiagomn8


Joined: 27 Dec 2010
Posts: 158
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:18 am    Post subject: Manti Te'o Reply with quote

Would You consider trading up for Manti Te'o if he was between 5 to 10 picks from where we are choosing? Ive seen a lot of people saying that hes a good player but will never be a great "Patrick Willis" type of player. I completely disagree I think that in a few years time he will be competing with Willis for the top ILB honors if not he will be the top ILB. This guy is amazing player with all the intangibles. On and off the field he is a All Pro and i would love to see him in purple and black. While I love that our offense is finally starting to assert itself our defense has been slacking to say the least. When a team is trying to jump start a offense they get a QB and to me the ILB is the QB of the defense who better to draft and build around. Manti Te'o and a pass rusher and our team is set in my opinion. Let me know what you think
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the way our ILB's look right now...

Yes, in a heartbeat.
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RAVINGMADD


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I was saying that before. I really like Te'o and would definitely be willing to move up 5 to 10 spots to get him. Sadly, he may not even make it that close to our pick if we make any kind of run in the playoffs. What this defense needs is that one more playmaker and I think we would be set. With Suggs coming back fully healthy next year and Kruger and Upshaw developing another year, I don't think we even need another pass rushing OLB. I think with Te'o and a 3-4 DE type of guy who can get some push, hold lineman off of Te'o, and occasionally get to the passer the defense would be set.
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Mancunian Raven


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know enough about the other ILBs in the draft, but unless Te'o is head and shoulders above them, a possible Patrick Willis type, then I'm not convinced trading up for him would be worth giving up a pick.

You can have the best ILBs in the league, but if your Defensive Line is getting pushed around and beaten up, they're not going to be able to do very much.

If the Ravens decided to trade away a player or two and gather some extra picks, then maybe it's something that could work.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's try this again... my post from my phone earlier somehow got destroyed somewhere in between WIFI and 4G... Not talking

Anyways... in terms of the OP's question... hypothetically speaking, no.

There are 3 things this draft looks to be pretty deep at... and lucky us, they all tend to align with some of our needs: E.T., IOL, and ILB.

The way I see it if we're going to trade up, I'd rather it be for a pass rusher. Margus Hunt is a guy that I'd like to see at the senior bowl, but if we're trading up I'd want our selection to have a pass rushing element. There's no question that Dion Jordan is my favorite guy in this draft... and if he's expected to be around in the late 1st... I'd much rather have a draft that looks like Jason Taylor (Jordan) and Sean Lee (Michael Mauti) than to have on that looks like Brian Cushing (Manti Te'O) and Paul Kruger (2nd round pass rusher). And then that's not even including the fact that we'd be giving up a 3rd/4th round pick to secure Te'O... that could be a Lardarius Webb or a Dennis Pitta to this team.

I just don't see the value in trading up for Te'O. If anything, I see the value in trading down- if indeed we want to go after an ILB talent. Te'O is the best ILB in this class and indeed I see mid-elite ability in him, a guy who will be one of the best year in and year out, definite probowl caliber... but may not make the HOF... sort of like a Brian Cushing. A guy on that level right below hyper-elite... like we saw with a prime- Lewis. Te'O simply isn't head and shoulders better than his peers. CJ Mosley, Arthur Brown, and Mike Mauti.. are three ILBs that I think all have elite potential as well. And at least two of those guys should be available in the 2nd round. The value is simply better with them. You're getting a potential elite player a good round lower, spend less on their contract, and aren't missing out in their ability to be instinctive and produce.

I mean redraft, if you were the Carolina Panthers would you rather have Fletcher Cox and Mychal Kendricks/Bobby Wagner/LaVonte David... or draft Kuechly early and go after Derek Wolfe. I'd rather go with the former pairing.

That said, this is all moot anyway as Te'O isn't likely getting by Steelers or the Bengals in the draft.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me it depends on what it would cost to move up. I think Te'o is worth trading up for and I'm a big fan of his but only at the right price. If the Ravens are picking in the 26-32 range then they're probably going to have to move up 10-15 spots to draft Te'o and at that point it can get pretty costly. The defense needs both impact players and depth so it's almost like a pick your poison situation. You can't discount the needs at WR and maybe OL (early or later in the draft depending on what they want to do with it, depth is a need regardless though).

If Te'o falls a bit or the Ravens are picking earlier than projected then it wouldn't be as big of a deal but there are some other nice MLB prospects this year so the team might be less inclined to give up too much for Te'o. The same goes for the other positions on defense too. This looks like it's shaping up to be a really good defensive draft and I pray that the front office takes advantage of it. I don't think they need to be trading back too much with as many compensation picks as they're likely to get but the defensive prospects are both high-caliber and plentiful, especially in the front-seven where the Ravens need the most help.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It depends on the price and how many spots we'd have to jump up. A few? Sure. But once you start getting to 8+ spots, the price gets too high IMO.

Like DB24 said, I'd rather not trade up too far, pick the BPA and go after a 2nd round type ILB in the Bobby Wagner/Lavonte David/Mychal Kendricks mold.
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
Let's try this again... my post from my phone earlier somehow got destroyed somewhere in between WIFI and 4G... Not talking

Anyways... in terms of the OP's question... hypothetically speaking, no.

There are 3 things this draft looks to be pretty deep at... and lucky us, they all tend to align with some of our needs: E.T., IOL, and ILB.

The way I see it if we're going to trade up, I'd rather it be for a pass rusher. Margus Hunt is a guy that I'd like to see at the senior bowl, but if we're trading up I'd want our selection to have a pass rushing element. There's no question that Dion Jordan is my favorite guy in this draft... and if he's expected to be around in the late 1st... I'd much rather have a draft that looks like Jason Taylor (Jordan) and Sean Lee (Michael Mauti) than to have on that looks like Brian Cushing (Manti Te'O) and Paul Kruger (2nd round pass rusher). And then that's not even including the fact that we'd be giving up a 3rd/4th round pick to secure Te'O... that could be a Lardarius Webb or a Dennis Pitta to this team.

I just don't see the value in trading up for Te'O. If anything, I see the value in trading down- if indeed we want to go after an ILB talent. Te'O is the best ILB in this class and indeed I see mid-elite ability in him, a guy who will be one of the best year in and year out, definite probowl caliber... but may not make the HOF... sort of like a Brian Cushing. A guy on that level right below hyper-elite... like we saw with a prime- Lewis. Te'O simply isn't head and shoulders better than his peers. CJ Mosley, Arthur Brown, and Mike Mauti.. are three ILBs that I think all have elite potential as well. And at least two of those guys should be available in the 2nd round. The value is simply better with them. You're getting a potential elite player a good round lower, spend less on their contract, and aren't missing out in their ability to be instinctive and produce.

I mean redraft, if you were the Carolina Panthers would you rather have Fletcher Cox and Mychal Kendricks/Bobby Wagner/LaVonte David... or draft Kuechly early and go after Derek Wolfe. I'd rather go with the former pairing.

That said, this is all moot anyway as Te'O isn't likely getting by Steelers or the Bengals in the draft.


Wait, just to clarify, are you saying that Lewis wasn't the best in his prime? Or are you saying he was "hyper-elite?"
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sp6488 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
Let's try this again... my post from my phone earlier somehow got destroyed somewhere in between WIFI and 4G... Not talking

Anyways... in terms of the OP's question... hypothetically speaking, no.

There are 3 things this draft looks to be pretty deep at... and lucky us, they all tend to align with some of our needs: E.T., IOL, and ILB.

The way I see it if we're going to trade up, I'd rather it be for a pass rusher. Margus Hunt is a guy that I'd like to see at the senior bowl, but if we're trading up I'd want our selection to have a pass rushing element. There's no question that Dion Jordan is my favorite guy in this draft... and if he's expected to be around in the late 1st... I'd much rather have a draft that looks like Jason Taylor (Jordan) and Sean Lee (Michael Mauti) than to have on that looks like Brian Cushing (Manti Te'O) and Paul Kruger (2nd round pass rusher). And then that's not even including the fact that we'd be giving up a 3rd/4th round pick to secure Te'O... that could be a Lardarius Webb or a Dennis Pitta to this team.

I just don't see the value in trading up for Te'O. If anything, I see the value in trading down- if indeed we want to go after an ILB talent. Te'O is the best ILB in this class and indeed I see mid-elite ability in him, a guy who will be one of the best year in and year out, definite probowl caliber... but may not make the HOF... sort of like a Brian Cushing. A guy on that level right below hyper-elite... like we saw with a prime- Lewis. Te'O simply isn't head and shoulders better than his peers. CJ Mosley, Arthur Brown, and Mike Mauti.. are three ILBs that I think all have elite potential as well. And at least two of those guys should be available in the 2nd round. The value is simply better with them. You're getting a potential elite player a good round lower, spend less on their contract, and aren't missing out in their ability to be instinctive and produce.

I mean redraft, if you were the Carolina Panthers would you rather have Fletcher Cox and Mychal Kendricks/Bobby Wagner/LaVonte David... or draft Kuechly early and go after Derek Wolfe. I'd rather go with the former pairing.

That said, this is all moot anyway as Te'O isn't likely getting by Steelers or the Bengals in the draft.


Wait, just to clarify, are you saying that Lewis wasn't the best in his prime? Or are you saying he was "hyper-elite?"

Very poor wording. Sorry I was dozing off as I wrapped up that post and didn't read it for clarity.

The first time I wrote it, it was worded much better, but apparently my internet connection decided to go out just as I sent the post..

But yeah, by Hyper-elite, I'm referring to Ray Lewis, Patrick Willis, a Prime Brian Urlacher, and of course the greats of the past. Basically if you're an ILB that plays at a DPOY level... especially if you've won one... I'd call you hyper-elite.

I don't think Te'O ever reaches that level... I think even if at his best he's the best ILB in the game... I don't think his natural talent is enough to be hyper-elite. He's more of in that Brian Cushing... mid-elite level of talent IMO. Should be really really good, but probably won't be on too many DPOY lists. There will always be better defenders.

Don't want to sound like I'm limiting him and saying he's not good, just that I think he's going to be a step below where those other linebackers were. And to me, I don't think I trade up for that guy... unless there doesn't appear to be other talents falling close to us that are suitable and trade down options don't look like they'll be plentiful.
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alfalcone


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Teo is the best linebacker in the class, however, I think the game has changed to the point where a dominant mike is no longer necessary. Brian Urlaucher was the last elite mlb to appear in the Super Bowl, and Ray was the last elite mike to win won. While it would be poetic to replace Ray with another dominant player, I don't think it's the most beneficial move for the franchise. We merely need an above average player, that can be found in the mid rounds, Shayne Skove, Arthur Brown, or Kevin Minter if he comes out. The difference between a dominant linebacker (say Patrick Willis) and a productive linebacker (say Colin McCarthy) is much less than at a pass rushing or pass covering position, where having an elite versus a productive talent is much more important. I'd much rather take a player who is put in a position to make impactful plays in round one, and two for that matter and grab a linebacker in the mid rounds.

1) A WR / CB (I really hate this draft and would much prefer to trade this pick for a first next year and hope to god we land Jadevon Clowney Marquise Lee or Sammy Watkins)
2) Margus Hunt
3) Shayne Skov
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stillersenat


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:

That said, this is all moot anyway as Te'O isn't likely getting by Steelers or the Bengals in the draft.


Bengals maybe. But I get the feeling the Steelers would like a pass rusher/OLB more than an ILB. Harrison is nowhere near his top level and with his salary/cap hell coming the Steelers direction..., and we have nobody behind him.
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drd23


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alfalcone wrote:
(I really hate this draft and would much prefer to trade this pick for a first next year and hope to god we land Jadevon Clowney Marquise Lee or Sammy Watkins)

With Marty Hurney gone, I don't know if there are any GMs left in the league stupid enough to make a trade that would give us a potentially Top 5 future pick Wink
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stillersenat wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:

That said, this is all moot anyway as Te'O isn't likely getting by Steelers or the Bengals in the draft.


Bengals maybe. But I get the feeling the Steelers would like a pass rusher/OLB more than an ILB. Harrison is nowhere near his top level and with his salary/cap hell coming the Steelers direction..., and we have nobody behind him.

Good point.

But even then, it's unlikely that he'd get past some other non-AFCN team that comes before either of our teams. I just know one thing... the Steelers better not steal Dion Jordan from us... or I will never forgive them... ever. That would successfully make me dislike the Steelers more than the Patriots... and I hate the Patriots. Other than that.. grab a Corey Lemonier to your hearts content. Smile
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What NFL team is really needing a MLB/ILB more than us right now? The Giants? That's really the only team I can think of, besides maybe Buffalo or someone like that, or maybe even Indy, but they need OL help.

If Te'o is anywhere near us, we would be fools NOT to jump on him, even though I know Ozzie is a fan of not getting any 1st round picks and just stockpiling on 2nd rounders (that's worked out real well recently, lolllllll).
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
What NFL team is really needing a MLB/ILB more than us right now? The Giants? That's really the only team I can think of, besides maybe Buffalo or someone like that, or maybe even Indy, but they need OL help.

If Te'o is anywhere near us, we would be fools NOT to jump on him, even though I know Ozzie is a fan of not getting any 1st round picks and just stockpiling on 2nd rounders (that's worked out real well recently, lolllllll).

It has. Both Kelechi Osemele and Courtney Upshaw are nice talents. And the other players that I preferred over them like Cordy Glenn, Alshon Jeffery, and Stephen Hill... they also all went in the 2nd. The first round had nothing for us but a greater "prestige" to it. Ozzie will select a 1st rounder if it's the right player, right price.

The only argument for a trade down not working might be the Sergio Kindle trade down... and even that one is heavily flawed because we lost out on his potential because of a freak accident, it was similar to the Dan Cody freak incidents of the past... only worse.

Our last first rounder (Jimmy Smith) is no more productive than our latest second rounders (Courtney Upshaw/Kelechi Osemele).
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