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757-NINER


Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 414
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EverythingSF wrote:
Saintelistan86 wrote:
steadypimpin wrote:
I heard on the radio the other night they were talking about Mike Nolan coaching the Eagles and the guy on the radio said Nolan laid the pieces for the Niner defense that is in place now. I was like WTF??? I think there are only a couple guys on defense that Nolan got for us.


Justin Smith.


I still appreciate what Mike Nolan did for this team and I completely agree with that guy on the radio. Nolan was not seasoned, or dare I say man enough to be a head coach just yet. I think what happened to him in SF was a "you live and you learn" type of experience for him and that he could make a great HC as long as he has learned how to manage a game and the clock as well as keep his players in check and earn their trust. What went on with him and Alex was a complete joke from what I remember.


Nolan had GM powers his first 3 years before Jed stripped him of those duties after that disastrous 2007 season. That's when Scotty Mac took over GM duties until he left. It was one of the reasons Nolan took the job....because they gave him GM powers. Its wasn't excatly a line of coaches waiting to coach the Niners back then. We were void of talent on both sides of the ball and the Yorks were not thought too highly of as owners. Nolan said because the organization was so inpet structurally, that he needed to just start over fresh and he needed management control to do that. But I think he took on too much as a first time head coach, with the management and the coaching. Even a seasoned, experienced head coaches have struggled in that capacity(Holmgren).

He failed miserably as a coach. We're definitely in agreement there. He had no clue about offensive football. If Norv Turner doesn't leave him high and dry in '07, who knows but he definitely didn't have a plan. He had no business drafting a young QB first overall, listening to the advice of a OC, who would evetually leave a year later. I don't believe any first time HC, who doesn't have a background on the offensive side of the ball, whether as a OC or QB coach, should be drafting a 20 year old QB. He had no clue about developing said QB and it showed by how he chose his OC's. Switching from a WCO, to the Coryell, to whatever the hell Jim Hostler ran in his miserable stint as OC, to Martz's option-read based Coryell. He was too busy trying to save his [inappropriate/removed] than really understanding how to best develop his young QB and the offense as a whole. And ppl forget but it was Billy Davis who was the DC back then, followed by Manusky. It was Davis and Manusky's first time as a DCs but they blew. He tried to ride it out with guys who were not cutting it and it bit him in the [inappropriate/removed]. But they were hired by Nolan so ultimately its on his shoulders. But I think Nolan's stints as a DC after leaving the Niners, has proven he's one of the better defensive guys in the business. Even this year, coaching a 4-3 in Atlanta, he's showed his versatility on that side of the ball. Nolan's big nickel is still here....Fangio just tweaked the line-up a little, added a real pass-rusher(something he also failed at) and now you have one of the better nickel defenses in the league.

But in every other way, I think Nolan should get major kudos for helping start the transition from a poorly run franchise, to the finely oiled machine we have now. Look at the guys who he brought into the front office, who are now prospering now that they have moved up the personnel ladder. Look at the players who he drafted, or brought in as free agents, who are now getting accolades around the league. Now take all that away......are we in the NFCCG two years running? I don't know. If you gonna give Baalke credit for building what we have now, then you have to give Nolan some due, since he worked under Nolan initially. Nolan brought Baalke and Gamble into the organization. And I'm sure both would say they learned alot working with him. I used to look at organizations like the Pats, the Steelers, and the Packers and how they went about building their teams, how they're organizations were run, staying competitive, year after year, and thinking how I wished that could be us. And now that is us. We're the envy of GMs, coaches, and pundits around the league. The abilty of Baalke to use one draft to build up the trenches along the O-Line(2010 draft) only happens because Nolan used his first 3 drafts to add talent everywhere else. Adding a Iupati and a A. Davis only works if you already have a Staley, VD, Gore, Alex Smith, and Walker already in the fold. Its many ways we can evaluate how Nolan did as a coach but we both agree that he sucked in that regard. But how he built the team through the drafts and and free agency. And how those moves shaped the core of the team, along with the ppl he brought into the front office. And how those additions stabilized the organization and how its run now, shouldn't even be up for debate.
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Italian49erFan


Joined: 20 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heavinsent wrote:
NinerNation21 wrote:
Ataal wrote:
I'm trying to think of any other new coach coming in and bringing the team to two NFCCG's back-to-back in his first two years.....without an elite quarterback.

Anyone?

Even if it has been done before, it's pretty dang impressive.


Rex Ryan and the Jets. The current 49ers are almost a carbon copy of those two jets teams the first two years of Sanchez. Both went to the Championship game back to back years. Built on solid D and ground and pound running game. Complimentary passing game. There are obvious differences but essentially a similar team. Biggest difference is (i hope) that Ryan lost his team quickly and created a lack of discipline locker room. I think Harbaugh is a better coach than Ryan but these two teams started out very similar.


No, the biggest different is that you have Kaepernick, who is a million times better than Sanchez. I feel like I'm insulting Kaepernick by even putting him in the same sentence as Sanchez.


...it is a bit out of subject, but I would not be surprised if Alex Smith ended up with the Jets...sorry for the detour...
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rudyZ


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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Location: Québec
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Italian49erFan wrote:
Heavinsent wrote:
NinerNation21 wrote:
Ataal wrote:
I'm trying to think of any other new coach coming in and bringing the team to two NFCCG's back-to-back in his first two years.....without an elite quarterback.

Anyone?

Even if it has been done before, it's pretty dang impressive.


Rex Ryan and the Jets. The current 49ers are almost a carbon copy of those two jets teams the first two years of Sanchez. Both went to the Championship game back to back years. Built on solid D and ground and pound running game. Complimentary passing game. There are obvious differences but essentially a similar team. Biggest difference is (i hope) that Ryan lost his team quickly and created a lack of discipline locker room. I think Harbaugh is a better coach than Ryan but these two teams started out very similar.


No, the biggest different is that you have Kaepernick, who is a million times better than Sanchez. I feel like I'm insulting Kaepernick by even putting him in the same sentence as Sanchez.


...it is a bit out of subject, but I would not be surprised if Alex Smith ended up with the Jets...sorry for the detour...



I would be surprised. Too expensive for them, since they can't really cut Sanchez until next year. The more likely outcome is a rookie QB sitting behind Sanchez for a year.
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SoCalNiner


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Joined: 13 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
Italian49erFan wrote:
Heavinsent wrote:
NinerNation21 wrote:
Ataal wrote:
I'm trying to think of any other new coach coming in and bringing the team to two NFCCG's back-to-back in his first two years.....without an elite quarterback.

Anyone?

Even if it has been done before, it's pretty dang impressive.


Rex Ryan and the Jets. The current 49ers are almost a carbon copy of those two jets teams the first two years of Sanchez. Both went to the Championship game back to back years. Built on solid D and ground and pound running game. Complimentary passing game. There are obvious differences but essentially a similar team. Biggest difference is (i hope) that Ryan lost his team quickly and created a lack of discipline locker room. I think Harbaugh is a better coach than Ryan but these two teams started out very similar.


No, the biggest different is that you have Kaepernick, who is a million times better than Sanchez. I feel like I'm insulting Kaepernick by even putting him in the same sentence as Sanchez.


...it is a bit out of subject, but I would not be surprised if Alex Smith ended up with the Jets...sorry for the detour...



I would be surprised. Too expensive for them, since they can't really cut Sanchez until next year. The more likely outcome is a rookie QB sitting behind Sanchez for a year.


Can they re-structure Sanchez this off-season? I'm not sure he'd be open to it, but if the Jets can offer a shot at the starting position for re-structuring it's a possibility.
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoCalNiner wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
Italian49erFan wrote:
Heavinsent wrote:
NinerNation21 wrote:
Ataal wrote:
I'm trying to think of any other new coach coming in and bringing the team to two NFCCG's back-to-back in his first two years.....without an elite quarterback.

Anyone?

Even if it has been done before, it's pretty dang impressive.


Rex Ryan and the Jets. The current 49ers are almost a carbon copy of those two jets teams the first two years of Sanchez. Both went to the Championship game back to back years. Built on solid D and ground and pound running game. Complimentary passing game. There are obvious differences but essentially a similar team. Biggest difference is (i hope) that Ryan lost his team quickly and created a lack of discipline locker room. I think Harbaugh is a better coach than Ryan but these two teams started out very similar.


No, the biggest different is that you have Kaepernick, who is a million times better than Sanchez. I feel like I'm insulting Kaepernick by even putting him in the same sentence as Sanchez.


...it is a bit out of subject, but I would not be surprised if Alex Smith ended up with the Jets...sorry for the detour...



I would be surprised. Too expensive for them, since they can't really cut Sanchez until next year. The more likely outcome is a rookie QB sitting behind Sanchez for a year.


Can they re-structure Sanchez this off-season? I'm not sure he'd be open to it, but if the Jets can offer a shot at the starting position for re-structuring it's a possibility.



You can't get rid of guaranteed money, when re-structuring. You can either convert guarantees into a new signing bonus, thus increasing the player's cap hit for that year, or stretching the current guarantees over more years, but you can't make guaranteed money suddenly disappear. So, if they want to reduce Sanchez's cap hit in order to bring in a new QB, they have to extend him, but why would Sanchez be willing to do that? He'd probably prefer finishing his current contract or being released, with all his guarantees being paid off to him, and the ability to sign a new contract altogether. Extending just for the sake of taking a pay cut, and still being the target of the NY media... I wouldn't do it, if I were him. I really think the Jets are stuck with him for a year, and then they release him. Anything else wouldn't make much sense financially..
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neezy007


Joined: 21 May 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harbaugh didn't exactly take over a team devoid of talent. We knew we had talent, but I'll admit I didn't think we had as much as we do. The problem is they played stupid and undisciplined. Poor coaching basically. Harbaugh did shake things up when he got here no doubt. Getting rid of Nate Clements, our 80 million dollar man (even though it wasn't that much), Manny Lawson, and Shawntae Spencer. All of those were big moves. We didn't know who would play OLB, we later drafted some kid named Aldon Smith, or corner. Didn't we get rid of Dre Bly as well? Along with Takeo Spikes.

Harbaugh cut ties with a lot of guys fans viewed as big pieces. Then he turned an undisciplined, poorly coached team into playoff contenders. The talent was there for sure, but Harbaugh has done an absolutely incredible job and I can't say how happy I am about it. We look like we will be good for many years to come. We haven't even started to see what this last draft class will really look like either but a backfield of Gore, Hunter, LMJ, and Kaep Dat running attack.

I do get a little worried that our coaching staff, which is top notch, will get picked apart, and guys will leave elsewhere for big money, but that's the business. It would be great if we became the franchise people take pay cuts for. And how Paraag negotiates contracts we very well could be.
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SoCalNiner


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Joined: 13 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
SoCalNiner wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
Italian49erFan wrote:
Heavinsent wrote:
NinerNation21 wrote:
Ataal wrote:
I'm trying to think of any other new coach coming in and bringing the team to two NFCCG's back-to-back in his first two years.....without an elite quarterback.

Anyone?

Even if it has been done before, it's pretty dang impressive.


Rex Ryan and the Jets. The current 49ers are almost a carbon copy of those two jets teams the first two years of Sanchez. Both went to the Championship game back to back years. Built on solid D and ground and pound running game. Complimentary passing game. There are obvious differences but essentially a similar team. Biggest difference is (i hope) that Ryan lost his team quickly and created a lack of discipline locker room. I think Harbaugh is a better coach than Ryan but these two teams started out very similar.


No, the biggest different is that you have Kaepernick, who is a million times better than Sanchez. I feel like I'm insulting Kaepernick by even putting him in the same sentence as Sanchez.


...it is a bit out of subject, but I would not be surprised if Alex Smith ended up with the Jets...sorry for the detour...



I would be surprised. Too expensive for them, since they can't really cut Sanchez until next year. The more likely outcome is a rookie QB sitting behind Sanchez for a year.


Can they re-structure Sanchez this off-season? I'm not sure he'd be open to it, but if the Jets can offer a shot at the starting position for re-structuring it's a possibility.



You can't get rid of guaranteed money, when re-structuring. You can either convert guarantees into a new signing bonus, thus increasing the player's cap hit for that year, or stretching the current guarantees over more years, but you can't make guaranteed money suddenly disappear. So, if they want to reduce Sanchez's cap hit in order to bring in a new QB, they have to extend him, but why would Sanchez be willing to do that? He'd probably prefer finishing his current contract or being released, with all his guarantees being paid off to him, and the ability to sign a new contract altogether. Extending just for the sake of taking a pay cut, and still being the target of the NY media... I wouldn't do it, if I were him. I really think the Jets are stuck with him for a year, and then they release him. Anything else wouldn't make much sense financially..


I didn't realize how much was guaranteed, looks like they are stuck with him.
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Italian49erFan


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoCalNiner wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
SoCalNiner wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
Italian49erFan wrote:
Heavinsent wrote:
NinerNation21 wrote:
Ataal wrote:
I'm trying to think of any other new coach coming in and bringing the team to two NFCCG's back-to-back in his first two years.....without an elite quarterback.

Anyone?

Even if it has been done before, it's pretty dang impressive.


Rex Ryan and the Jets. The current 49ers are almost a carbon copy of those two jets teams the first two years of Sanchez. Both went to the Championship game back to back years. Built on solid D and ground and pound running game. Complimentary passing game. There are obvious differences but essentially a similar team. Biggest difference is (i hope) that Ryan lost his team quickly and created a lack of discipline locker room. I think Harbaugh is a better coach than Ryan but these two teams started out very similar.


No, the biggest different is that you have Kaepernick, who is a million times better than Sanchez. I feel like I'm insulting Kaepernick by even putting him in the same sentence as Sanchez.


...it is a bit out of subject, but I would not be surprised if Alex Smith ended up with the Jets...sorry for the detour...



I would be surprised. Too expensive for them, since they can't really cut Sanchez until next year. The more likely outcome is a rookie QB sitting behind Sanchez for a year.


Can they re-structure Sanchez this off-season? I'm not sure he'd be open to it, but if the Jets can offer a shot at the starting position for re-structuring it's a possibility.



You can't get rid of guaranteed money, when re-structuring. You can either convert guarantees into a new signing bonus, thus increasing the player's cap hit for that year, or stretching the current guarantees over more years, but you can't make guaranteed money suddenly disappear. So, if they want to reduce Sanchez's cap hit in order to bring in a new QB, they have to extend him, but why would Sanchez be willing to do that? He'd probably prefer finishing his current contract or being released, with all his guarantees being paid off to him, and the ability to sign a new contract altogether. Extending just for the sake of taking a pay cut, and still being the target of the NY media... I wouldn't do it, if I were him. I really think the Jets are stuck with him for a year, and then they release him. Anything else wouldn't make much sense financially..


I didn't realize how much was guaranteed, looks like they are stuck with him.


My thoughts were exactly those of SoCalNiner...and I agree with him again, after your explanation RudyZ: they're stuck!
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rudyZ


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoCalNiner wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
SoCalNiner wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
Italian49erFan wrote:
Heavinsent wrote:
NinerNation21 wrote:
Ataal wrote:
I'm trying to think of any other new coach coming in and bringing the team to two NFCCG's back-to-back in his first two years.....without an elite quarterback.

Anyone?

Even if it has been done before, it's pretty dang impressive.


Rex Ryan and the Jets. The current 49ers are almost a carbon copy of those two jets teams the first two years of Sanchez. Both went to the Championship game back to back years. Built on solid D and ground and pound running game. Complimentary passing game. There are obvious differences but essentially a similar team. Biggest difference is (i hope) that Ryan lost his team quickly and created a lack of discipline locker room. I think Harbaugh is a better coach than Ryan but these two teams started out very similar.


No, the biggest different is that you have Kaepernick, who is a million times better than Sanchez. I feel like I'm insulting Kaepernick by even putting him in the same sentence as Sanchez.


...it is a bit out of subject, but I would not be surprised if Alex Smith ended up with the Jets...sorry for the detour...



I would be surprised. Too expensive for them, since they can't really cut Sanchez until next year. The more likely outcome is a rookie QB sitting behind Sanchez for a year.


Can they re-structure Sanchez this off-season? I'm not sure he'd be open to it, but if the Jets can offer a shot at the starting position for re-structuring it's a possibility.



You can't get rid of guaranteed money, when re-structuring. You can either convert guarantees into a new signing bonus, thus increasing the player's cap hit for that year, or stretching the current guarantees over more years, but you can't make guaranteed money suddenly disappear. So, if they want to reduce Sanchez's cap hit in order to bring in a new QB, they have to extend him, but why would Sanchez be willing to do that? He'd probably prefer finishing his current contract or being released, with all his guarantees being paid off to him, and the ability to sign a new contract altogether. Extending just for the sake of taking a pay cut, and still being the target of the NY media... I wouldn't do it, if I were him. I really think the Jets are stuck with him for a year, and then they release him. Anything else wouldn't make much sense financially..


I didn't realize how much was guaranteed, looks like they are stuck with him.




It's not that so much of it is guaranteed. It's just that the cap penalty for 2013 would be higher if he was cut than his actual salary would be. If they release him after 2013, they still get hit with a penalty, but that hit will be lower than his salary, so they'd be saving money by cutting him. They could still re-structure him in order to bring in another QB to compete, but why would Sanchez do it? Just so he can be guaranteed a back-up spot for the next 5 years? Sanchez, if he's a normal human being, should stay put, force the Jets to either cut him (so he can seek a chance to start elsewhere and the money that comes with it) or play him. Re-structuring his deal would be the worst career and financial move for him. He could still get released. But it wouldn't be a financial move by the Jets, it would be a personnel decision.
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