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KC_Guy


Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 7363
Location: Brussels, Belgium
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nicfre2011 wrote:
It looks like spotrac has some updates on the Tyson Jackson contract. Atleast from what they have it doesn't look like the deal was as cap friendly as we thought.

According to their information, he counts $7,200,000 against the cap in 2013.

$6.5M guaranteed ($4M 2013 base, $2.5M Bonus)
2013 Workout Bonus: $500,000
2013 salary reduced from $14.72M

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/tyson-jackson/


2.5 M$ are dead money from his old contract.
I actually had him at a 7.7 M$ cap - 1 M$ signing bonus instead of 500K4 Workout.
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nicfre2011


Joined: 15 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is probably a stupid analogy and it might not really fit, but this is kind of how I think of the evaluation of cutting/keeping a player.

If you have a car that is valued at $20,000 (let's say someone offered you that amount to purchase your car) but you owe $22,000 as of right now you would obviously have to pay $2,000 out of pocket if you did sell it for the agreed to amount. Now, let's take devaluation of the car out of the equation and say you fast forward and you have paid down the car and only owe $18,000 and the offer is still on the table for $20,000...well then you would pocket $2,000. I think of the "pay down" when you pay a year of prorated signing bonus and get to the point where you owe to the "cap" less than the player is "worth" or his guaranteed money (ex. base salary).
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nicfre2011


Joined: 15 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See, we just signed Geoff Schwartz. I just get the feeling that we have more money than some of us (and sites like spotrac.com) are calculating. I find it hard to believe Dorsey is spending money he doesn't have or will be forced to axe a bunch of players just to get enough money to sign draft picks and low-level free agents.

I think alot more of Cassel's contract is off the books and not basically reduced only half by dead money.
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ArrowheadRage58


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 4660
Location: Hate for the Donkeys is at a mile high
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nicfre2011 wrote:
This is probably a stupid analogy and it might not really fit, but this is kind of how I think of the evaluation of cutting/keeping a player.

If you have a car that is valued at $20,000 (let's say someone offered you that amount to purchase your car) but you owe $22,000 as of right now you would obviously have to pay $2,000 out of pocket if you did sell it for the agreed to amount. Now, let's take devaluation of the car out of the equation and say you fast forward and you have paid down the car and only owe $18,000 and the offer is still on the table for $20,000...well then you would pocket $2,000. I think of the "pay down" when you pay a year of prorated signing bonus and get to the point where you owe to the "cap" less than the player is "worth" or his guaranteed money (ex. base salary).


Can't sell a car you don't own.
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Mikek163


Joined: 24 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nicfre2011 wrote:
See, we just signed Geoff Schwartz. I just get the feeling that we have more money than some of us (and sites like spotrac.com) are calculating. I find it hard to believe Dorsey is spending money he doesn't have or will be forced to axe a bunch of players just to get enough money to sign draft picks and low-level free agents.

I think alot more of Cassel's contract is off the books and not basically reduced only half by dead money.


Exactly. I find it funny some people on this forum are sticking by their numbers, over the guys who have seen the #s first hand, and not posted on some website.
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikek163 wrote:
nicfre2011 wrote:
See, we just signed Geoff Schwartz. I just get the feeling that we have more money than some of us (and sites like spotrac.com) are calculating. I find it hard to believe Dorsey is spending money he doesn't have or will be forced to axe a bunch of players just to get enough money to sign draft picks and low-level free agents.

I think alot more of Cassel's contract is off the books and not basically reduced only half by dead money.


Exactly. I find it funny some people on this forum are sticking by their numbers, over the guys who have seen the #s first hand, and not posted on some website.

I think we're just trying to make sense of it all. It's frustrating for me that guys like Clayton seemingly can't even get enough details on a contract to come up with up to the minute cap numbers on guys.

Some people may not care about this stuff, but I like understanding it so I can better predict what we are capable of doing. If we are right, and in other words, sites like Sporttrac can be trusted, we are going to be over the cap if we use our current draft picks.

That means we are going to do one of 3 things:
- Cut/trade guys to make room.
- Trade picks this year away to reduce the overall value we would have to sign.
- Re-structure deals.

2 of those things would be huge news, and largely unexpected.
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bpinsky33


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember last year we opted to take the cap bonus from the Redskins/Cowboys punishment over two years, and I believe that since we were under the cap by so much last year we were able to roll some of that cap to the 2013 cap. So I wouldn't be shocked if our cap is more than the reported 2013 cap.
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KC_Guy


Joined: 07 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bpinsky33 wrote:
I remember last year we opted to take the cap bonus from the Redskins/Cowboys punishment over two years, and I believe that since we were under the cap by so much last year we were able to roll some of that cap to the 2013 cap. So I wouldn't be shocked if our cap is more than the reported 2013 cap.


Chiefs rolled over 14 M$ - but that's accounted for in the spreadsheet - and it's gone!

As for the cap penalties: The receiving teams had to use it under the 2012 cap - Dallas and Washington had an option to be docked the full amount in 2012 or to split it between 2012 and 2013.
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Last edited by KC_Guy on Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mikek163


Joined: 24 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
Mikek163 wrote:
nicfre2011 wrote:
See, we just signed Geoff Schwartz. I just get the feeling that we have more money than some of us (and sites like spotrac.com) are calculating. I find it hard to believe Dorsey is spending money he doesn't have or will be forced to axe a bunch of players just to get enough money to sign draft picks and low-level free agents.

I think alot more of Cassel's contract is off the books and not basically reduced only half by dead money.


Exactly. I find it funny some people on this forum are sticking by their numbers, over the guys who have seen the #s first hand, and not posted on some website.

I think we're just trying to make sense of it all. It's frustrating for me that guys like Clayton seemingly can't even get enough details on a contract to come up with up to the minute cap numbers on guys.

Some people may not care about this stuff, but I like understanding it so I can better predict what we are capable of doing. If we are right, and in other words, sites like Sporttrac can be trusted, we are going to be over the cap if we use our current draft picks.

That means we are going to do one of 3 things:
- Cut/trade guys to make room.
- Trade picks this year away to reduce the overall value we would have to sign.
- Re-structure deals.

2 of those things would be huge news, and largely unexpected.


Bye bye Tamba? Hello Dion Jordan?
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simonwayne


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We could either draft Joeckel or Fisher and trade Albert or draft Jordan and trade Tamba to clear up cap space.
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Jakuvious


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cap really doesn't worry me at all. Our cap situation right now seems much more like how things are for most teams around this time of year, considering most years, it seems as though teams with little cap room have no trouble making moves.
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OILCHIEFS


Joined: 02 Feb 2011
Posts: 1473
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikek163 wrote:
bigschmadt00 wrote:
Mikek163 wrote:
nicfre2011 wrote:
See, we just signed Geoff Schwartz. I just get the feeling that we have more money than some of us (and sites like spotrac.com) are calculating. I find it hard to believe Dorsey is spending money he doesn't have or will be forced to axe a bunch of players just to get enough money to sign draft picks and low-level free agents.

I think alot more of Cassel's contract is off the books and not basically reduced only half by dead money.


Exactly. I find it funny some people on this forum are sticking by their numbers, over the guys who have seen the #s first hand, and not posted on some website.

I think we're just trying to make sense of it all. It's frustrating for me that guys like Clayton seemingly can't even get enough details on a contract to come up with up to the minute cap numbers on guys.

Some people may not care about this stuff, but I like understanding it so I can better predict what we are capable of doing. If we are right, and in other words, sites like Sporttrac can be trusted, we are going to be over the cap if we use our current draft picks.

That means we are going to do one of 3 things:
- Cut/trade guys to make room.
- Trade picks this year away to reduce the overall value we would have to sign.
- Re-structure deals.

2 of those things would be huge news, and largely unexpected.


Bye bye Tamba? Hello Dion Jordan?



I have a feeling that is what is going to happen. I don't like it as next year Tamba will be on a bargain cap hit as this year is the peak.


Honestly I don't know what Dorsey is doing. So far so good until he trades one of my favorites.
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DT58_lives_on


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As aggressive as we're being, it leads me to believe a couple of things.

1. We are pretty confident we can trade out of pick 1 (saving some money, but not a ton)

2. There are deals going on we know nothing about, my guess is restructuring guys like Tamba, extending guys like Berry/Albert that could be saving us projected money, but we're just getting details worked on.

3. We are confident we can trade Albert (clears 10 mil of cap space) or Tamba (I see this less likely with the huge cap number this year, and if we restructure, why wouldn't we just keep him?)

What I could see happening is working with Tamba's cap number to save us some money, and signing Albert long term to save us at least another couple million. I think the market/money for tackles is dropping quick, might help our negotiations.

But really, I have no clue, but I have faith Dorsey (from GB who always was/is under the cap) and Reid (I mean, it's a certain perk, his cap management) know what they're doing. Just hope it doesn't cost us a guy like Tamba, who I would really like to see play his whole career in KC.
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nicfre2011


Joined: 15 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

simonwayne wrote:
We could either draft Joeckel or Fisher and trade Albert or draft Jordan and trade Tamba to clear up cap space.


IF we were to trade Hali (I have a hard time seeing that happen), I would prefer Ansah over Jordan.
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DT58_lives_on


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing I was thinking about in my 4 hour drive back to central WI, is a lot of these deals are team friendly this year. I could see several of these guys cut before next year if they don't earn their deals. Yes there is penalties, but we also gain some ground in other ares.

Guys like Avery/Dunta if they under-perform are gone, and we aren't taking massive cap hits. But for the now, it is filling our team, and building what the FO and fans are hoping will be a competitive team. Changing the image of the woeful Chiefs that we've grown accustomed to takes some new parts, and some used parts.
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