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Watching the 9ers makes me believe in Pryor
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Watching the 49ers makes me wish AlDavis pulled the trigger on something smart for once. Like the Kaepernick trade up, Aaron Rodgers draft pick, or Aaron Rodgers for Moss trade. Instead we have Pryor, and have to pray.


Trading up for Kaepernick might look smart in hindsight, but Al Davis would have gotten blasted for trading the Pats another 1st round pick to move up 16 spots in the 2nd round.


Maybe so, but it's one occasion where being blasted would have ended up benefiting us. Rather than being blasted, which Al had no problem wih, for continual idiot moves that haven't helped us get better at all.
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Raiiiiidersssss


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kaep is good, but hes not the second coming. Did you watch the game? Best o-line in the NFL. Amazing pocket.
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holyghost


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raiiiiidersssss wrote:
Kaep is good, but hes not the second coming. Did you watch the game? Best o-line in the NFL. Amazing pocket.


180+ rushing playoff record? He may not be the second coming but he's better than what we have. If he was a Raider fans around here would call him the second coming. Because he would be the best young QB prospect we have had in 30+ years.
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Django


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
Raiiiiidersssss wrote:
Kaep is good, but hes not the second coming. Did you watch the game? Best o-line in the NFL. Amazing pocket.


180+ rushing playoff record? He may not be the second coming but he's better than what we have. If he was a Raider fans around here would call him the second coming. Because he would be the best young QB prospect we have had in 30+ years.


Al almost pulled that deal off. Crying or Very sad
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:

Actually they both got knocked out in the divisional round. But either way the bronco's won't be in the Super Bowl this year. Heck they may not even contend next year.


Why do you think this way? I honestly think they're going to get better. They literally only have one high-priced free agent in Clady and they'll get him back the rest could be signed or let go b/c they're easily replaced.

This team is prone to be around and fighting for a championship for at least 2 more years.


They also have one of the older teams in the nfl. Things change in the NFL especially when a team is older. Now Manning had a great year one his best ever and will probably get a 5th MVP. However in the the divisional round he seemed..old. I remember when Brett Farve went to Minnesota and the first year there he had one of the best seasons a QB has ever had and the vikes where one Int from the Super Bowl. Great game btw. The next year he has his worst and then retires. Now am I saying it'll be like that no and manning isn't the only player subject to Father Time with doom and champ also playing into that as well.

Also the AFC west isn't nearly as remidial as we think. Honestly the Cheifs are one great QB from contending in playoffs. I am not like most of the people here who think that we will be in clowney sweepstakes will we be contending for a Super Bowl? No maybe a quick exit at best but not top five. SD is probably the only team that will be at either the same amount of wins or less. Actually with the Mike McCoy hiring they might be good too.

And McCoy's departure is pretty big, lets be honest he's the reason they made playoffs with Tebow. Well Hue Jackson too but let's not open that can off what if worms. Lol and you more than most of the guys on this site know the value of a good OC Peyton Manning or not.


They are older at some points but Peyton can still play and he's working w/ a young, dynamic offense. He's good for a couple more years. You can say he looked old also but you could also argue maybe he wasn't conditioned. Regardless, he played well. His defense let him down.

I don't think the Chiefs are that good either. I really don't. They make stupid mistakes and I don't feel their defense is as strong as some might have been lead to believe. We'll see though. And I agree the OC is important for most teams but not when Peyton is your QB. I'm sure his second year in the system w/ the exact same team, they'll probably give him the keys to run that place until he's done playing there.

I don't expect much out of McCoy as a coach right away but that's left to be seen. It's going to be great off-season, that's for sure.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone who thinks Kaep would succeed on this team is a little delusional. There might be 4-5 QBs in this league that could succeed. As Madden said about our team this season, "we weren't playing w/ a full deck of cards".
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Anyone who thinks Kaep would succeed on this team is a little delusional. There might be 4-5 QBs in this league that could succeed. As Madden said about our team this season, "we weren't playing w/ a full deck of cards".


Don't matter, not what I am saying. I'm saying of all the stupid deals and draft picks Al did pull off, the two he didn't pull off - trade up for Kaepernick, and two shots at Aaron Rodgers both in the draft and swapped for Moss, are the two deals that might have made a permanent and significant difference in changing the fortunes of this perenially losing team.

Instead we have piles of garbage to show for our past decade of first round picks.

Having a good to great QB prospect to build a team around is a part of the recipe for Super Bowls. Kaepernick and Rodgers fit that category. Without one, and we don't have one in Palmer or Pryor, we don't have a chance in hell of making that recipe happen.
But jeez, look at what we do have for what either guy could have cost us. Moss - John Bowie 4th rounder. Fabian Washington. Palmer 1st and 2nd gone, 3rd for Pryor. I.E. we have nothing instead. It's like making bread without flour around here.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Anyone who thinks Kaep would succeed on this team is a little delusional. There might be 4-5 QBs in this league that could succeed. As Madden said about our team this season, "we weren't playing w/ a full deck of cards".


Actually, it could have worked. With all the rollouts and stuff that Pryor had short-lived and moderate success with, I could see it semi work. Moreso because Kaepernick is such a better thrower.
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Anyone who thinks Kaep would succeed on this team is a little delusional. There might be 4-5 QBs in this league that could succeed. As Madden said about our team this season, "we weren't playing w/ a full deck of cards".


Don't matter, not what I am saying. I'm saying of all the stupid deals and draft picks Al did pull off, the two he didn't pull off - trade up for Kaepernick, and two shots at Aaron Rodgers both in the draft and swapped for Moss, are the two deals that might have made a permanent and significant difference in changing the fortunes of this perenially losing team.

Instead we have piles of garbage to show for our past decade of first round picks.

Having a good to great QB prospect to build a team around is a part of the recipe for Super Bowls. Kaepernick and Rodgers fit that category. Without one, and we don't have one in Palmer or Pryor, we don't have a chance in hell of making that recipe happen.
But jeez, look at what we do have for what either guy could have cost us. Moss - John Bowie 4th rounder. Fabian Washington. Palmer 1st and 2nd gone, 3rd for Pryor. I.E. we have nothing instead. It's like making bread without flour around here.


Having a great qb prospect would be great but If you don't put then in the right situation and with the right coaches they become Alex smith and David Carr of the world. We hadn't had the right environment or coaches or team to develop a great qb prospect anyway.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:

Actually they both got knocked out in the divisional round. But either way the bronco's won't be in the Super Bowl this year. Heck they may not even contend next year.


Why do you think this way? I honestly think they're going to get better. They literally only have one high-priced free agent in Clady and they'll get him back the rest could be signed or let go b/c they're easily replaced.

This team is prone to be around and fighting for a championship for at least 2 more years.


They also have one of the older teams in the nfl. Things change in the NFL especially when a team is older. Now Manning had a great year one his best ever and will probably get a 5th MVP. However in the the divisional round he seemed..old. I remember when Brett Farve went to Minnesota and the first year there he had one of the best seasons a QB has ever had and the vikes where one Int from the Super Bowl. Great game btw. The next year he has his worst and then retires. Now am I saying it'll be like that no and manning isn't the only player subject to Father Time with doom and champ also playing into that as well.

Also the AFC west isn't nearly as remidial as we think. Honestly the Cheifs are one great QB from contending in playoffs. I am not like most of the people here who think that we will be in clowney sweepstakes will we be contending for a Super Bowl? No maybe a quick exit at best but not top five. SD is probably the only team that will be at either the same amount of wins or less. Actually with the Mike McCoy hiring they might be good too.

And McCoy's departure is pretty big, lets be honest he's the reason they made playoffs with Tebow. Well Hue Jackson too but let's not open that can off what if worms. Lol and you more than most of the guys on this site know the value of a good OC Peyton Manning or not.


They are older at some points but Peyton can still play and he's working w/ a young, dynamic offense. He's good for a couple more years. You can say he looked old also but you could also argue maybe he wasn't conditioned. Regardless, he played well. His defense let him down.

I don't think the Chiefs are that good either. I really don't. They make stupid mistakes and I don't feel their defense is as strong as some might have been lead to believe. We'll see though. And I agree the OC is important for most teams but not when Peyton is your QB. I'm sure his second year in the system w/ the exact same team, they'll probably give him the keys to run that place until he's done playing there.

I don't expect much out of McCoy as a coach right away but that's left to be seen. It's going to be great off-season, that's for sure.


peyton's defense let him down?
didnt special teams spot him points
how many ints did he have? and a pick 6 lololol are you serious?
then he couldnt get it done in ot
flacco out played him and threw no ints btw
this is the playoffs the ravens offense isnt full of scrubs. the den defense played well vrs a very balanced balt team.

i thought the ravens defense were old but peyton looked older.
i agree peyton will be back next season and he will blaze through the regular season. imo he is not a cold weather qb and late in the season and playoff time it gets cold in den. him wearing gloves = Laughing . he isnt built for cold weather games outside.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:

Actually they both got knocked out in the divisional round. But either way the bronco's won't be in the Super Bowl this year. Heck they may not even contend next year.


Why do you think this way? I honestly think they're going to get better. They literally only have one high-priced free agent in Clady and they'll get him back the rest could be signed or let go b/c they're easily replaced.

This team is prone to be around and fighting for a championship for at least 2 more years.


They also have one of the older teams in the nfl. Things change in the NFL especially when a team is older. Now Manning had a great year one his best ever and will probably get a 5th MVP. However in the the divisional round he seemed..old. I remember when Brett Farve went to Minnesota and the first year there he had one of the best seasons a QB has ever had and the vikes where one Int from the Super Bowl. Great game btw. The next year he has his worst and then retires. Now am I saying it'll be like that no and manning isn't the only player subject to Father Time with doom and champ also playing into that as well.

Also the AFC west isn't nearly as remidial as we think. Honestly the Cheifs are one great QB from contending in playoffs. I am not like most of the people here who think that we will be in clowney sweepstakes will we be contending for a Super Bowl? No maybe a quick exit at best but not top five. SD is probably the only team that will be at either the same amount of wins or less. Actually with the Mike McCoy hiring they might be good too.

And McCoy's departure is pretty big, lets be honest he's the reason they made playoffs with Tebow. Well Hue Jackson too but let's not open that can off what if worms. Lol and you more than most of the guys on this site know the value of a good OC Peyton Manning or not.


They are older at some points but Peyton can still play and he's working w/ a young, dynamic offense. He's good for a couple more years. You can say he looked old also but you could also argue maybe he wasn't conditioned. Regardless, he played well. His defense let him down.

I don't think the Chiefs are that good either. I really don't. They make stupid mistakes and I don't feel their defense is as strong as some might have been lead to believe. We'll see though. And I agree the OC is important for most teams but not when Peyton is your QB. I'm sure his second year in the system w/ the exact same team, they'll probably give him the keys to run that place until he's done playing there.

I don't expect much out of McCoy as a coach right away but that's left to be seen. It's going to be great off-season, that's for sure.


peyton's defense let him down?
didnt special teams spot him points
how many ints did he have? and a pick 6 lololol are you serious?
then he couldnt get it done in ot
flacco out played him and threw no ints btw
this is the playoffs the ravens offense isnt full of scrubs. the den defense played well vrs a very balanced balt team.

i thought the ravens defense were old but peyton looked older.
i agree peyton will be back next season and he will blaze through the regular season. imo he is not a cold weather qb and late in the season and playoff time it gets cold in den. him wearing gloves = Laughing . he isnt built for cold weather games outside.


This whole post is just The Truth.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Anyone who thinks Kaep would succeed on this team is a little delusional. There might be 4-5 QBs in this league that could succeed. As Madden said about our team this season, "we weren't playing w/ a full deck of cards".


Don't matter, not what I am saying. I'm saying of all the stupid deals and draft picks Al did pull off, the two he didn't pull off - trade up for Kaepernick, and two shots at Aaron Rodgers both in the draft and swapped for Moss, are the two deals that might have made a permanent and significant difference in changing the fortunes of this perenially losing team.

Instead we have piles of garbage to show for our past decade of first round picks.

Having a good to great QB prospect to build a team around is a part of the recipe for Super Bowls. Kaepernick and Rodgers fit that category. Without one, and we don't have one in Palmer or Pryor, we don't have a chance in hell of making that recipe happen.
But jeez, look at what we do have for what either guy could have cost us. Moss - John Bowie 4th rounder. Fabian Washington. Palmer 1st and 2nd gone, 3rd for Pryor. I.E. we have nothing instead. It's like making bread without flour around here.


Al made many stupid moves I am not going to deny that.

I think Kaep is a guy you can build around but that's still left to be seen. He's still too early in his career to say that's definite but he looks to be on his way. I wasn't necessarily directing my post towards you but I am definitely on board w/ what you're selling. It was easily my biggest gripe w/ Al... that and his horrid drafting.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Anyone who thinks Kaep would succeed on this team is a little delusional. There might be 4-5 QBs in this league that could succeed. As Madden said about our team this season, "we weren't playing w/ a full deck of cards".


Actually, it could have worked. With all the rollouts and stuff that Pryor had short-lived and moderate success with, I could see it semi work. Moreso because Kaepernick is such a better thrower.


I'm just wondering if teams would key in on that over time. It hasn't happened yet but they also have arguably the best line in football. In some time, yeah I think he would've succeeded here but who knows if the struggles would kill confidence and what-not. It's possible and really only brought up for the sake of having little else to talk about these days.

I was hard on Kaep coming out but he's looking like he's on his way.
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holyghost


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Anyone who thinks Kaep would succeed on this team is a little delusional. There might be 4-5 QBs in this league that could succeed. As Madden said about our team this season, "we weren't playing w/ a full deck of cards".


Don't matter, not what I am saying. I'm saying of all the stupid deals and draft picks Al did pull off, the two he didn't pull off - trade up for Kaepernick, and two shots at Aaron Rodgers both in the draft and swapped for Moss, are the two deals that might have made a permanent and significant difference in changing the fortunes of this perenially losing team.

Instead we have piles of garbage to show for our past decade of first round picks.

Having a good to great QB prospect to build a team around is a part of the recipe for Super Bowls. Kaepernick and Rodgers fit that category. Without one, and we don't have one in Palmer or Pryor, we don't have a chance in hell of making that recipe happen.
But jeez, look at what we do have for what either guy could have cost us. Moss - John Bowie 4th rounder. Fabian Washington. Palmer 1st and 2nd gone, 3rd for Pryor. I.E. we have nothing instead. It's like making bread without flour around here.


Having a great qb prospect would be great but If you don't put then in the right situation and with the right coaches they become Alex smith and David Carr of the world. We hadn't had the right environment or coaches or team to develop a great qb prospect anyway.


I don't put as much weight as some in environment or coaches or team. There's definitely merit to it, but David Carr and Alex Smith didn't end up where they are due to that. Carr and Smith will never be very good in any situation. It's them along with their situation.

It really seems as if you're implying that those guys could have been magically transformed into successes if their situations were better. And in accordance with that, any prospect is entirely a product of their situation. Which implies we can just draft most anyone at QB and if they have all the right pieces they'll be an all pro. Nah.

I don't see any real difference between the pounding David Carr took in his early career and the pounding Aaron Rodgers took his first few years starting or the beating Rothlisberger took as well. All of their lines were equally horrid. Rodgers and Rothlisberger had much better teams around them so the teams had more success. But the players themselves had more success than Carr, due to them just being better players at their core. Carr took the beating and became shell shocked. Rodgers took the beating and got the ball out. Rothlisberger beats the pressure. Winners find ways, losers get beat down..

With all his time on the Giants I doubt Carr is any better now. Same goes for a guy like Jason Campbell. Yeah he switched offensive systems 7 times. But he is still the same guy in any system, and that's Jason Campbell. Checkdowns, safe passing, lack of gamebreaking ability of any kind. One offensive system might have helped a bit, but he'd still end up being Jason Campbell in the end.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Anyone who thinks Kaep would succeed on this team is a little delusional. There might be 4-5 QBs in this league that could succeed. As Madden said about our team this season, "we weren't playing w/ a full deck of cards".


Don't matter, not what I am saying. I'm saying of all the stupid deals and draft picks Al did pull off, the two he didn't pull off - trade up for Kaepernick, and two shots at Aaron Rodgers both in the draft and swapped for Moss, are the two deals that might have made a permanent and significant difference in changing the fortunes of this perenially losing team.

Instead we have piles of garbage to show for our past decade of first round picks.

Having a good to great QB prospect to build a team around is a part of the recipe for Super Bowls. Kaepernick and Rodgers fit that category. Without one, and we don't have one in Palmer or Pryor, we don't have a chance in hell of making that recipe happen.
But jeez, look at what we do have for what either guy could have cost us. Moss - John Bowie 4th rounder. Fabian Washington. Palmer 1st and 2nd gone, 3rd for Pryor. I.E. we have nothing instead. It's like making bread without flour around here.


Having a great qb prospect would be great but If you don't put then in the right situation and with the right coaches they become Alex smith and David Carr of the world. We hadn't had the right environment or coaches or team to develop a great qb prospect anyway.


One other note on it.

A Raider fan is in no way apt to be a judge on which came first the chicken or the egg. Or in this case, does the QB make the team better, or the team make the QB look better. It's both, but regardless we cannot tell - because when was the last time we actually had a great QB prospect? A young one? How many goddamn decades..

And no, Tuiasosopo, Rick Mirer, Andrew Walter, Marc Wilson, Marinovich, Hobert, Russell, these guys dont count. None of them were ever great prospects before or after the draft, neither due to team or by themselves alone. Russell is a possible exception, but it's sooooooo clear what went wrong there. If anything, the one possible case for deciding this argument is staring us right in the face. A loser makes a loser regardless of the team. A fat slob who won't work can never be considered a great prospect, nor can a team be blamed for making a guy into what he won't make himself into.
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