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DC possibilties for the Browns..
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mkk


Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 253
Location: Cleveland
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

one of the best 3-4 dc of all time is bill belichek and they now run a base 4-3. one of those reasons is that so many other teams are running the 3-4 and limiting an already shallow pool of potential players that can fit this. if they stay in a 4-3 chuds success rate goes up with right dc, if they switch all bets are off.
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bruceb


Joined: 15 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seem to recall hearing Mel Tucker's name being thrown around.
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nugpimpen


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
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Location: 10 Miles South of Cleveland
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mkk wrote:
one of the best 3-4 dc of all time is bill belichek and they now run a base 4-3. one of those reasons is that so many other teams are running the 3-4 and limiting an already shallow pool of potential players that can fit this. if they stay in a 4-3 chuds success rate goes up with right dc, if they switch all bets are off.


I agree with the talent pool part.

At this point, roughly half the league runs the 3-4, I think that kind of cuts down on the allure of that defense, simply because a lot of those spots aren't conventional positions that players run for years.

Obviously there are some college programs that run it, but not that many.
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bulldog


Joined: 18 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there's to many people generalizing the concept of the 34 too much.

At the moment, the browns run a 2 gap 43 system same system BAL used back in 2000.

If they make a switch, then its to either a 1 gap, or a 2 gap 34.

Most agree on here that we have the DL to make it work, but not the LBers. Most also agree the LBers are the heart of the 34.

Most 1 gap systems around the league (HOU, SF..) have great penatrating DEs. SF has an amazing group of LBers, HOUs are very good as well, but not mind blowing. GB also runs this system, but with little help on the DL, but a few stars at LB, and they struggle a bit.

The 2 gap, the DEs are more responsible. Stay at home and control, try to keep lbers clean. I'm not sure who all runs a 2 gap system other than KC last year. NE ran it best a few years ago, but with 3 all pro DL and a bunch of journymen at LB. McGinest I think was a first rounder, but he was never great.

My point? If we swith too a 1 gap, we have the DL for it. Its an easier position to play. This whole its gonna be hard to find the talent thing doesn't make any sense. its harder to find the 2 gap DE. Not a 1 gap.
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fsubrowns9510


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
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Location: Rochester, NY
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Mel Tucker plans to interview with #Jaguars for their HC job, source confirmed. No date set. 1 other possibility: Back w #Browns for Chud


Http://www.twitter.com/rapsheet
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sdrawkcab321


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
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Location: Cleveland
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is Mel tucker any good ? I don't remember him doing much here and the people on the jax forum don't seem to like him
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ditchdigger


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
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Location: Gahanna, OH
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sdrawkcab321 wrote:
Is Mel tucker any good ? I don't remember him doing much here and the people on the jax forum don't seem to like him


Yes, and nobody likes their coordinators unless they win a Super Bowl.

A coordinator's job is to do the best he can with the talent he's given. If Jacksonville fans believe they have elite defensive talent that is underperforming because of Tucker, they're sadly mistaken.
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Productiondawg


Joined: 19 Dec 2011
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Location: Cincinnati
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sdrawkcab321 wrote:
Is Mel tucker any good ? I don't remember him doing much here and the people on the jax forum don't seem to like him


I liked Mel Tucker while he was here. He started as our DB coach while they kicked booty am there was a time that we feared he would be plucked away from us to get a DC promotion. One thing I like a lot about him is he seems to fit the mold of what Chud wants the most. An attacking hybrid defense. (He coached a 3/4 with us and coached a 4/3 with Jax this past season. I believe out roster is set up great for a hybrid once we sure up the DBs and get a pass rushing outside linebacker.
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Estonianzulu


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:

My point? If we swith too a 1 gap, we have the DL for it. Its an easier position to play. This whole its gonna be hard to find the talent thing doesn't make any sense. its harder to find the 2 gap DE. Not a 1 gap.


My worry is less that our DL talent doesn't stack up but our LB talent doesn't stack up. And I think its easier to find pure pass rushers than pass rushers who can also drop back into coverage
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fsubrowns9510


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tucker was only a DB coach here.

Jax fans probably don't like him because their d blows.

He ran a 4-3 in Jax fyi
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the DC hire will be critical to the future success of the Browns. For over a decade we fielded teams with significantly less talent than the league average. We had spurts where the defense played well and the offense made it not matter, and vice-versa.

This is the first time, since the return of the Browns in 1999, that we have had significant talent on both offense and defense. The offensive players were scouted and drafted to play an attacking style of offense, so the vertical game is simply complimentary to their abilities.

However, the defensive front 7 players were scouted and drafted to play a four man defensive front where the DTs keep the MLB clean for run support and provide interior situational pass rush, the DEs provide the majority of the pass rush and outside contain, LBs were drafted to primarily play run support and play TEs and RBs in coverage.

The base 3-4 asks the three man line to keep all 4 LBs clean so the LBs can run the show by tackling runners, covering receivers, and rushing the passer.

So, where does our current front 7 stand right now? Well, they're only the best run defenders and pass rushers we've had since 1999 and our front 7 players are pretty young. Sure, maybe there were a few more sacks in the past, but we probably gave up 4.6 yards per run. Maybe we did slightly better against the run, but had fewer sacks. It's even possible that we did a little better against the run and with sacks (I don't think this happened) but gave up more points.

So yeah, we've had some bad defenses, but they weren't all horrible.

In 2001, the defense allowed 19.9 PPG. They had 43 sacks and allowed 4.5 yards per carry. But the offense stunk (17.8 PPG) and we finished 7-9.

In 2002, the defense was good enough to rank #10 in PPG (20.0). They allowed 4.3 yards per carry and had only 27 sacks. They helped us get to the playoffs, but then gave up 3 fourth quarter TDs (2 to Tommy Maddox and a rushing TD to Chris Fumatoomameelaafoolaa’ooooeeeoooahhahhhtingtangwallawallabingbang).

In 2003, they allowed 20.1 PPG. They had 34 sacks and gave up 4.6 yards per carry. But the offense stunk (15.9 PPG) and we finished 5-11.

So, in 2007, we get a good year from the offense, but the defense allowed 23.9 PPG, gave up 4.5 yards per carry and only had 28 sacks.

So here we are, with an offense that has players that can score as many points as we ever have scored and a defense that allowed 23 PPG, gave up 4.2 yards per carry and had 37 sacks. The team is young, they are on the rise. Let’s get the right DC and make the jump back to good.
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ditchdigger


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fsubrowns9510 wrote:
Tucker was only a DB coach here.


He was promoted to DC for the 2008 season, after Grantham was fired. That was Romeo's last year.
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bulldog


Joined: 18 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Estonianzulu wrote:
bulldog wrote:

My point? If we swith too a 1 gap, we have the DL for it. Its an easier position to play. This whole its gonna be hard to find the talent thing doesn't make any sense. its harder to find the 2 gap DE. Not a 1 gap.


My worry is less that our DL talent doesn't stack up but our LB talent doesn't stack up. And I think its easier to find pure pass rushers than pass rushers who can also drop back into coverage


I can't disagre with you here, but that's part of the beauty of the 34. Masking coverages and blitzes.
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bulldog


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mel Tucker would take Haden to new heights.

Guy works magic with DBs.
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:
Estonianzulu wrote:
bulldog wrote:

My point? If we swith too a 1 gap, we have the DL for it. Its an easier position to play. This whole its gonna be hard to find the talent thing doesn't make any sense. its harder to find the 2 gap DE. Not a 1 gap.


My worry is less that our DL talent doesn't stack up but our LB talent doesn't stack up. And I think its easier to find pure pass rushers than pass rushers who can also drop back into coverage


I can't disagre with you here, but that's part of the beauty of the 34. Masking coverages and blitzes.


The masking/deception part is not done by a player though; it's done with the whole defense understanding their roles. That comes with the whole defense having experience playing in the scheme.
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