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Understanding the 4-3 alignment
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CowboysTilIDie


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
canadaluvsdalla wrote:
Great post Matts. It makes sense to a guy that hasn't watched too much for a 4-3 defence before.

Btw can we discuss personnel for the 4-3 defence here or do we need a different thread for that?


No, thats fine. I wanted to use this thread to talk about schemes and how our guys fit in. Feel free to spark any conversation you would like!

muncy54 wrote:
So what are the needs for our defense now? i would assume we need a SAM? A FS is a must as it has been every year since Woodson retired but do you think we need another true pass rushing DE?


I would say that in a perfect world, FS is the #1 need. We need a guy with a lot of speed and range.


My caveat to that is how much faith you have in Ratliff:

The 4-3 Under is designed to get QB pressure from one side of the defense, and have guys who can stuff the run on the other. In a perfect world, Rat can play the UT role - Its really been his most natural position his entire career, he has just never played it. IF we dont think he is healthy or able, I would say a pass rushing DT is the most important.

I am much less concerned about the RDE; I think we have several guys who could play there adequately.


My main concern right now is the DT. I highly doubt Spears will be back, so that leaves us with Lissemore to man that spot and I personally think he fits better as the UT along with Ratliff. We need someone to take on those double teams and stop the run.
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matt79511


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been in the "Cut Spears" camp but I don't know how you can afford to do so with the lack of DL depth. What's his cap number, again?
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Matts4313


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt79511 wrote:
I've been in the "Cut Spears" camp but I don't know how you can afford to do so with the lack of DL depth. What's his cap number, again?


small. He is not much above vet Min if I recall correctly.
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matt79511


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
matt79511 wrote:
I've been in the "Cut Spears" camp but I don't know how you can afford to do so with the lack of DL depth. What's his cap number, again?


small. He is not much above vet Min if I recall correctly.


Hm. Nice.

This is also worth a read. Former Cowboys scouting director Larry Lacewell, who has a long-standing relationship with Kiffin, on how Dallas' current personnel fits Kiffin's scheme:

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowboys/post/_/id/4704671/how-does-dallas-personnel-fit-monte-kiffins-scheme
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Matts4313


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In the 3-4 defense Ryan played, it was a two-gap system which required the defensive line to fire their hands into the blockers, hold the block, then shed one way or the other. Head inside, head outside. In this Tampa 2 scheme, the linemen try and get up the field as fast as they can. In scouting terms it is called “Grabbing a gap”. This is where Warren Sapp was at his absolute best, as was Glover when he played here. Sapp and Glover would play on the outside shoulder of the guard, or in a “3 technique,” and attack that shoulder, trying to be as disruptive as possible. Opposite of the “3 technique” is what is known as the “1 technique,” and he’s the heavy guy that plays on the inside shoulder of the guard. His job is to control that area with power. You will hear terms being thrown around when talking about this defense and the types of front they play. An “Under” front is when the defensive line is shaded to the weak side of the formation or an “Over” front that is shaded to the strong side. The over and under has to deal with the positioning of the “1 technique,” and the other defensive linemen adjust off that. What this front allows is switches and stunts without putting the defense at risk.

____________________________________________

The design of the defense is bend but don’t break, making sure to eliminate the big play. It makes the offense have to drive the ball in order to have success, and it requires an offense to be very patient in the way they attack it. It’s designed to allow the underneath stuff, but the speed of the defense takes care of that. In terms of the Tampa Bay personnel compared to this current Cowboys squad, think of DeMarcus Ware as Simeon Rice, Bruce Carter as Derrick Brooks, Sean Lee as Shelton Quarles and Barry Church as John Lynch, with Jay Ratliff as Warren Sapp. I don’t believe the coverage part will be a problem for Carr and Claiborne, but how physical they can be trying to do those things I spoke of in funneling runs inside or playing the run when he gets to the outside will be important. This defense will not have all the bells and whistle that Rob Ryan had, but scheme-wise it is much simpler and gives the defenders a chance to make plays.

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/article-BryanBroaddusBlog/Broaddus-Breaking-Down-Kiffin%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9CTampa-2%E2%80%9D-Defense-/152c949c-2595-4ac9-b719-e1b6c73113ad
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jonkelly69


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowboys/post/_/id/4704671/how-does-dallas-personnel-fit-monte-kiffins-scheme

This is Lacewell's (gasp) take. Matts, like you, I was much more intrigued by the 4-3 under scheme Gus Bradley runs.

This puts some of that premise in doubt.
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Matts4313


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowboys/post/_/id/4704671/how-does-dallas-personnel-fit-monte-kiffins-scheme

According to Lacewell:

Crawford - Ratliff - Hatcher - Ware

Albright - Lee - Carter


He believes that Hatcher more resembles the role of Sapp. Ratliff's role as a 1 technique here would be virtually identical to what he was asked in the Phillips 3-4.
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Matts4313


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonkelly69 wrote:
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowboys/post/_/id/4704671/how-does-dallas-personnel-fit-monte-kiffins-scheme

This is Lacewell's (gasp) take. Matts, like you, I was much more intrigued by the 4-3 under scheme Gus Bradley runs.

This puts some of that premise in doubt.


Laughing

You posted while I was writing.

That is a 4-3 under.





He is saying:

Craw and Rat on the Def-Left, Hatcher and Ware on the Def- Right.
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jonkelly69


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
jonkelly69 wrote:
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowboys/post/_/id/4704671/how-does-dallas-personnel-fit-monte-kiffins-scheme

This is Lacewell's (gasp) take. Matts, like you, I was much more intrigued by the 4-3 under scheme Gus Bradley runs.

This puts some of that premise in doubt.


Laughing

You posted while I was writing.

That is a 4-3 under.





He is saying:

Craw and Rat on the Def-Left, Hatcher and Ware on the Def- Right.


Thank god. I got tripped up because he flopped Rat and Hatcher. Initially, I was under the impression the one sided tandem of ware and ratliff was paramount to the design.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Understanding the 4-3 alignment Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:


Good finds, Matts. And to let you guys know, the "Elephant" position was what Clay Matthews played at USC which was what inspired Green Bay to draft him as their rush OLB. The positions are very similar.
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Last edited by plan9misfit on Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:37 pm; edited 2 times in total
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GeneralDissaray


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I literally laughed a big goofy laugh Matts, when my suspicions were confirmed by clicking the complain about Jerry link.
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Matts4313


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralDissaray wrote:
I literally laughed a big goofy laugh Matts, when my suspicions were confirmed by clicking the complain about Jerry link.


I am shocked it took someone this long to mention it.

Laughing Laughing

It was clearly a joke - hope nobody took offense.
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GeneralDissaray


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
matt79511 wrote:
Awesome thread. Agreed that we have good personnel for the 4-3 under, although a comparison to Seattle's defense loses steam when you consider the disparity at safety.


If we play cover 3 - I think Sensy could easily play the SS spot. He has adequate speed and tackling ability.

We really need a FS though - I agree.




You were in college, when we last ran the 4-3. I was in college, the last time we had good safety play.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheStarStillShines wrote:
Definitely still need a pass-rushing DT, a LDE (or RDE depending where Ware plays), SOLB, and a FS. A cover-3 defence still doesn't fit with the skill sets of Carr and Claiborne. With the athletes on the team, a cover-1 would be the best scheme, although the holes listed above remain.


Sharrif Floyd would fit the bill as a pash rushing DT. He doesn't pile up sacks because of his position, but he's played both DT and DE in college and can get behind the LOS. I think he'd be a great pick for us regardless of the scheme we run.
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Stein07


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is my question. What if we keep Anthony Spencer and somehow get him signed. I was thinking (on paper) that this lineup would be so sick. Im sure people will give me opinions on why it wont work but here it goes.

Ware and Spears/Crawford on the ends.
Ratliff and HAtcher in the middle.

Carter Lee and Spencer all being the 3 linebackers.

That would be so sick in fantasy land.
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