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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 11758
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:45 pm    Post subject: 2013 Raider Mock Off-Season Reply with quote

Welcome to my mock off-season. I'm trying to make this as realistic as possible so you won't trade downs b/c every year we have people saying it will happen and it never does. Gotta play the odds. With the releasing of a lot of people on this team, we will have some cap space to sign a couple big names and still keep everyone happy. So w/o further ado, have fun picking this apart.

Releasing:

Richard Seymour
Tommy Kelly
Darrius Heyward Bey
Rolando McClain
Shane Lechler
Khalif Barnes
Ron Bartell
Brandon Myers
Travis Goethel
Matt Giordono
Omar Gaither

Resigning:

DE Matt Shaughnessy
OLB Phillip Wheeler
DE Andre Carter
SS Mike Mitchell
RB Mike Goodson
OG/C Alex Parsons
OG Lucas Nix

EDIT: FTR, I'm aware I didn't list everyone as some did slip my mind. I was at work when I did this so I didn't have all the time in the world and I felt my time could better be used elsewhere.

Free Agents:

LT - Jermon Bushrod - He's done w/ the Saints and this would be a solid fit at the LT position. Veldheer is good enough to slide over to the right as he's played there before and wasn't bad at all.
QB - Drew Stanton - Would take Leinart's spot as the 2nd string QB on this team
TE - Dustin Keller - Coming off a disappointing season, I feel we should be able to get him cheaper than he's worth and he is a solid receiving option at the TE position as well as an above average blocker
NT - Terrance Knighton - A solid, run stuffing NT. Something we haven't had in almost a decade.
DT - Glenn Dorsey - He would rotate w/ Bryant as out UT constantly keeping fresh legs out there and I believe both would thrive from it.
MLB - Ernie Sims - I think Sims can play some good football. IMO, it would be an experiment but one that could benefit us for a long time if he were to thrive. Worth the risk.
DE - Ray Edwards - I think this season will humble him and he'll get his crap together. He would come relatively cheap and the reward would be far greater than the risk.
OLB - Nick Roach - He could start on some teams but I feel he would be nice depth and good in rotation


Trade:

I do honestly believe we'll be trading McFadden to the Jets if Hue goes there. Green had a respectable year but they don't have a RB that can take over. This isn't saying McFadden can but I know Hue liked him while he was here so that could really go a long way.

Darren McFadden for the Jets 3rd round pick #72

Draft:

Draft picks:

1st:

3rd overall

3rd:

68
72

4th:

113

5th:

129

6th:

161

7th:

193
198

Source for picks was another mock b/c I was unsure of the precise numbers so if they're off, don't get your panties in a twist and just instead focus on the pick itself.

3rd overall pick:

Star Lotulelei - NT - Utah

I know I had us picking up Knighton but I'm about picking BPA as well as keeping legs fresh on the defensive line for constant rotation. Ideally I'd like to trade down to the middle and pick up Hankins b/c as a rotational guy he should be great. He just needs to be better conditioned. I don't need to go any further why I went Star here but keep legs fresh on this line would be ideal for me and this is a great start.

68th:

Travis Frederick - G/C - Wisconsin

This kid can play and I do admit, him falling this far might be a little bit of a stretch but not too much that it can't happen. This is a draft deep w/ linemen so I believe he could fall slightly more than he should. He has a TON of experience and coming out early w/ that experience makes him appealing. FTR, I would move him over to G and keep Wiz at C.

72nd:

Bacarri Rambo - S - Georgia

I really like this kid as a player. I would toy w/ taking Jefferson here but if Rambo is around, I'd give him a slight edge. Again, a ton of experience and he can cover w/ the best of them from the FS position. This would allow him to work right in and keep Huff at CB where I hope he restructures and stays. He played well enough to warrant some time there but not for the price he's currently at. Rambo can come in and start day 1 and we all know how I feel about both S positions. He's a smart player who could be more aggressive and isn't the best tackler but he's a solid FS prospect.

113th:

Nico Johnson - MLB - Alabama

Yep, trading one Tide for another Tide in the same position. Obviously Sims would be a starter but Nico could get some time in there to work and improve his game to potentially take over. More of a run stopper than a pass protector but he's not the worst at it. I would prefer a more complete LB at this position but at this point in the draft and having someone to back up Sims would be a good investment at this point in the draft.

129th:

Theo Riddick - RB - Notre Dame

This kid can do it all. He's elusive, he can catch w/ the best, he can line up behind the QB, w/ the QB, outside as a WR, inside in the slot.... just not on the line... too small. This is a kid you must account for as he is a weapon all over. I think he could create a lot of mismatches and rip off nice chunks all game. Not a feature back but most certainly someone who should be accounted for at all times.

161st:

Sanders Commings - CB - Georgia

Tall kid who can run and has a nice build. He can be physical, he's a good tackler, and I think he could thrive in the right system. We need depth at the CB position and I believe he can provide it this late in the draft and potentially become a starter.

193rd:

Craig Roh - DE - Michigan

A player who I feel could make the team at a position we may need even more than ever.

198th:

Best Kick Returner available. Not sure who this could be but there will be some position player out there who is better at returning kicks opposed to their normal position.

Depth Chart:

QB - Palmer - Stanton - Pryor
RB - Goodson - Riddick - Stewart
WR1 - Denarious Moore, Juron Criner
WR2 - Rod Streater, Derek Hagan, Jacoby Ford
TE - Keller - Ausberry
LT - Bushrod
LG - Brisel
C - Wiz
RG - Frederick
RT - Veldheer

DE - Houston - Carter
NT - Star - Knighton
UT - Dorsey - Bryant
DE - Edwards - Shaughnessy

OLB - Wheeler - Roach
MLB - Sims - Johnson
OLB - Burris -

CB1 - Huff - Spencer - Commings
CB2 - Adams - Hanson

SS - Branch - Mitchell
FS - Rambo

I did not list backups for all positions as you can see partly b/c I'm lazy and partly b/c I don't feel they're going to have much of an impact aside from stepping in from time to time. I would LOVE a rotational defensive line. Fresh legs all game will benefit us greatly. Stacking that line is a top priority IMO... obviously....

OK, tear away.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really don't think we'll be able to get all those FAs. Especially guys like Bushrod, Knighton or Keller.

Ernie Sims at MLB? lolwut? He hasn't been good in years.

I really don't think we'll be able to pull off all that change in one offseason.

Draft is meh. I don't want Star.
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Raiiiiidersssss


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
I really don't think we'll be able to get all those FAs. Especially guys like Bushrod, Knighton or Keller.

Ernie Sims at MLB? lolwut? He hasn't been good in years.

I really don't think we'll be able to pull off all that change in one offseason.

Draft is meh. I don't want Star.


Why not?

As 88 said though, I think the FA signings aren't realistic as a whole. I like a lot of your cuts though (Kelly, DHB, trade McFadden). And I would love to grab a stud lt and move veldheer to rt if star is gone.

edit: As much as you hate Pryor, you have to admit he's going to be 2nd string after the Chargers game.
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goodson, Riddick and Stewart.

Prepare to be ranked bottom of the league in rushing again. That is awful. As much as I like Riddick and Goody, they are both at best change of pace backs.

That FA would cost a small fortune the Raiders wouldn't spend. Too unrealistic for my liking.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
I really don't think we'll be able to get all those FAs. Especially guys like Bushrod, Knighton or Keller.

Ernie Sims at MLB? lolwut? He hasn't been good in years.

I really don't think we'll be able to pull off all that change in one offseason.

Draft is meh. I don't want Star.


I don't see any of the three you named being extremely expensive though. W/ the cuts I listed, I think the cap space would be in our favor to sign them. That is also the reason I went Sims. I still think he can play and if not, as a rotation w/ Johnson, we could at least keep fresh legs out there.

To each their own w/ the draft. You've seen me speak my thoughts on this team throughout the season and I feel our lines need to be addressed most out of any position and I feel it was accomplished w/ this draft.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raiiiiidersssss wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
I really don't think we'll be able to get all those FAs. Especially guys like Bushrod, Knighton or Keller.

Ernie Sims at MLB? lolwut? He hasn't been good in years.

I really don't think we'll be able to pull off all that change in one offseason.

Draft is meh. I don't want Star.


Why not?

As 88 said though, I think the FA signings aren't realistic as a whole. I like a lot of your cuts though (Kelly, DHB, trade McFadden). And I would love to grab a stud lt and move veldheer to rt if star is gone.

edit: As much as you hate Pryor, you have to admit he's going to be 2nd string after the Chargers game.


I don't think he's second string. Yeah, he put some points up in a meaningless game but as I said prior to the game even starting, this was a tryout in my mind. I wanted to see progression since his days at OSU. While he did show nice poise he's still inaccurate, he still can't put any zip on the ball and he still floats all his deep balls. I didn't see much progression. I don't feel he's second string material but I do feel he should be incorporated in certain situations in goal line packages. I would just prefer the throwing to be a minimal amount.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Goodson, Riddick and Stewart.

Prepare to be ranked bottom of the league in rushing again. That is awful. As much as I like Riddick and Goody, they are both at best change of pace backs.

That FA would cost a small fortune the Raiders wouldn't spend. Too unrealistic for my liking.


If our line performs well, I think Goodson is capable of being a solid back. That's why I focused more on the line opposed to bringing in players who couldn't perform no matter how good they are w/ the line we have currently.

How are these FA's too expensive? I'd like to know what people would think expected contracts for those players are. When I did this, I didn't feel there was anyone besides Bushrod that would cost much. Knighton and Keller could but I don't see it being unreasonable. Then again, I didn't have a ton of time to research their current deals and how much they would potentially cost.
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holyghost


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have some issues with this, even though overall it's reasonable enough.

Gaither has shown enough to stay. If not starting then at least as the 4th LB. I don't see a reason why he leaves.

Veldheer would possibly slide for a #3 Joeckel pick. But I don't see him sliding for Bushrod. Don't think it'll happen. More than likely we will just sign a RT.

Pryor will be the 2nd string. I know you're not a fan, but Leinart or stanton, there's just no reason anyone else beats Pryor out for 2nd slot. Especially considering this - in order to make more use of Pryor, as DA himself has said after his start, the only way he will be active on gameday is the 2nd string spot. At 3rd string he is inactive again every week. It won't happen.

Dorsey -Sims -Edwards. I don't see any of those happening. Bryant, unless he is way too expensive, will be our starter and his backup will be some draft pick or UDFA, I guarantee it. Isn't Sims horrible? Edwards, we already have one older DE and he's better than Edwards. I don't see them signing two. Last DE will be another random UDFA probably.

Now that Knapp is gone I really highly doubt McFadden will be traded. Think of it this way. Even if he leaves after the next year, we will get a comepnsation pick for him. Noone is trading for him higher than the comepnsation pick that we will end up getting anyway. Staff has to know this, and we get another year out of the guy. Unless a trade offer comes along that is higher than expected, which means a 2nd or better. Will that really happen? Very unlikely.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
I have some issues with this, even though overall it's reasonable enough.

Gaither has shown enough to stay. If not starting then at least as the 4th LB. I don't see a reason why he leaves.

Veldheer would possibly slide for a #3 Joeckel pick. But I don't see him sliding for Bushrod. Don't think it'll happen. More than likely we will just sign a RT.

Pryor will be the 2nd string. I know you're not a fan, but Leinart or stanton, there's just no reason anyone else beats Pryor out for 2nd slot. Especially considering this - in order to make more use of Pryor, as DA himself has said after his start, the only way he will be active on gameday is the 2nd string spot. At 3rd string he is inactive again every week. It won't happen.

Dorsey -Sims -Edwards. I don't see any of those happening. Bryant, unless he is way too expensive, will be our starter and his backup will be some draft pick or UDFA, I guarantee it. Isn't Sims horrible? Edwards, we already have one older DE and he's better than Edwards. I don't see them signing two. Last DE will be another random UDFA probably.

Now that Knapp is gone I really highly doubt McFadden will be traded. Think of it this way. Even if he leaves after the next year, we will get a comepnsation pick for him. Noone is trading for him higher than the comepnsation pick that we will end up getting anyway. Staff has to know this, and we get another year out of the guy. Unless a trade offer comes along that is higher than expected, which means a 2nd or better. Will that really happen? Very unlikely.


Getting rid of Gaither wasn't my top choice but I felt it'd be better to possibly find someone you could groom to take over the starting spot if the Sims project doesn't work out. I've explained my thoughts on Sims somewhere in this thread also. Plus, while I do have some big names signing, I tried to keep it realistic as possible going after Sims instead of some high priced player.

I don't see how one meaningless game w/ so much ineffectiveness grants someone a 2nd string spot at the QB position. I could obviously be wrong b/c I don't know the coaches stance on this subject but I surely didn't see enough as a passer to warrant no competition for the spot.

As for the three you named, it is very possible it doesn't happen but you never know. I tried to keep it reasonable and what I feel would be best suited for this team in the near future.
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101Raider


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Goodson, Riddick and Stewart.

Prepare to be ranked bottom of the league in rushing again. That is awful. As much as I like Riddick and Goody, they are both at best change of pace backs.

That FA would cost a small fortune the Raiders wouldn't spend. Too unrealistic for my liking.


If our line performs well, I think Goodson is capable of being a solid back. That's why I focused more on the line opposed to bringing in players who couldn't perform no matter how good they are w/ the line we have currently.

How are these FA's too expensive? I'd like to know what people would think expected contracts for those players are. When I did this, I didn't feel there was anyone besides Bushrod that would cost much. Knighton and Keller could but I don't see it being unreasonable. Then again, I didn't have a ton of time to research their current deals and how much they would potentially cost.


Bushrod is going to cost ALOT in my opinion. Keller is also going to get some pretty decent money. As to Knighton, I though he'd be pretty reasonable and dropped him into my mock as well. If he is in for a big payday, I might have to readjust... I've been vacillating between him and Alan Branch (whom I assumed is in for a large raise).
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:

Now that Knapp is gone I really highly doubt McFadden will be traded. Think of it this way. Even if he leaves after the next year, we will get a comepnsation pick for him. Noone is trading for him higher than the comepnsation pick that we will end up getting anyway. Staff has to know this, and we get another year out of the guy. Unless a trade offer comes along that is higher than expected, which means a 2nd or better. Will that really happen? Very unlikely.


I guess that's assuming we would get a 3rd round compensatory pick which would only happen if McFadden signs an expensive contract in free agency. I doubt he will be offered that unless he has an elite, injury free 2013 season. It seems very unlikely.
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holyghost


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
holyghost wrote:

Now that Knapp is gone I really highly doubt McFadden will be traded. Think of it this way. Even if he leaves after the next year, we will get a comepnsation pick for him. Noone is trading for him higher than the comepnsation pick that we will end up getting anyway. Staff has to know this, and we get another year out of the guy. Unless a trade offer comes along that is higher than expected, which means a 2nd or better. Will that really happen? Very unlikely.


I guess that's assuming we would get a 3rd round compensatory pick which would only happen if McFadden signs an expensive contract in free agency. I doubt he will be offered that unless he has an elite, injury free 2013 season. It seems very unlikely.


3rd is the highest, yeah. But even if we net a 4th, I really don't see s trading him for a 4th right now. Plus I don't know if anyone here appreciates it, but the team and staff do - having him for another year, then getting virtually the same draft pick as a trade would net, that's something the staff will likely want. He's a disappointment, but now that ZBS is up in the air he is still our best offensive player with a chance to possibly perform again. He's not going anywhere unless a trade offer is too good to pass up..

AFA Gaither, I don't see this staff going into the "project" realm with a guy like Sims. That's an Al Davis move through and through. High draft slot bust revives career with Raiders. Nah, this staff will more than likely either keep Gaither and groom a young one, or if a young one is drafted or steps up then that one will be the starter.
Or an overlooked FA who is undervalued. Sims screams old Raiders.

And as far as Pryor, QB is one of those positions more likely to see guys handed spots on the team. It's simply the most crucial developmental position, and sometimes a staff has to weigh the future as heavily as present performance in setting the depth chart. Moreso than other positions. Plus like I said, he doesn't play in any packages on Sundays if he isn't 2nd string.

Jtagg, I agree with you having serious doubts about Pryor as a pro passer. But if you can't say to yourself it's a 90+% certainty he's 2nd string next year, as the staff has almost conceded at this point while mentioning the need to get him involved, then you have to consider you are tilting into the realm of "bias" against him. Have your opinion, but don't be biased man. You're an intelligent poster and your feelings on Pryor are valid, but don't go too far into being biased because it only marginalizes the validity of your own opinion and gives your opponents more ammo.
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bitty


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Knighton is a must have for the Raiders. He'll keep the MLB clean and able to flow to the ball.
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
Knighton is a must have for the Raiders. He'll keep the MLB clean and able to flow to the ball.


He lost his starting spot this season so i wouldn't say he's a must have. I'm not against it because i think he could come relatively cheap but he'd just be a role player. There are other options to fill the same role. Sammie Lee Hill or Pat Sims, for example.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:

3rd is the highest, yeah. But even if we net a 4th, I really don't see s trading him for a 4th right now. Plus I don't know if anyone here appreciates it, but the team and staff do - having him for another year, then getting virtually the same draft pick as a trade would net, that's something the staff will likely want. He's a disappointment, but now that ZBS is up in the air he is still our best offensive player with a chance to possibly perform again. He's not going anywhere unless a trade offer is too good to pass up..


But it's also quite possible we net less than this. It's pretty hard to assess how much teams would be willing to spend on McFadden at this point. RBs have a hard time cashing in on a 2nd contract because they typically can't sustain their level of play for very long. So a RB with McFadden's injury history might not get that big of a contract.
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