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A Radical Off-Season Thought Process
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khodder


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Bolded: Same response. It will devastate our ability to build a decent coaching staff. Nobody will knowingly sign up for 2-14 because nobody can turn 2-14 into something better.


Yet we enter the 2013 season with the same roster than everyone said we could push 8-8 9-7 with in 2012? I don't see how this roster has become a 2-14 roster.

QB - Kolb, Hoyer, Lindley
RB - Williams, LSH, Powell (Possibly Wells depending on Team Option)
FB - Sherman
WR - Fitzgerald, Roberts, Floyd, Byrd
TE - Housler, Sims, Depth
LT - Potter - Depth
LG - Warmack - Depth
C - Sendlein - Lewis/Wedige
RG - Ohrnberger - Depth
RT - Massie - Depth

LE - Campbell, Talley
NT - Williams, Eason
RE - Dockett, Carter

OLB - Thomas, Schofield
ILB - Washington, Walker
ILB - Klein/Lenon, Depth
OLB - Acho, Groves/Nash

CB - Peterons, Toler, Adams
CB - Gay, Fleming

FS - Rhodes, Bethel
SS - Wilson, Johnson, Sanders
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
JohnnyV wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
I don't like it for a number of reasons, the biggest being that we punt the 2013 season.


Oh yea, and we have no cap room.


Overdramatic, especially beings as a few of these moves hinder our 2013 cap room.


The totality of them cuts and restructures is a gain of about $6M in cap space in 2013 while losing players of poor quality.


You save a helluva lot more by keeping Daryn Colledge who while merely average is our best offensive lineman. Not to mention the fact that the player you want to replace him with that may be quote "a guy like Ohrnberger", a clear DOWNGRADE.

Save more 2013 money and start a better player. That's a no-brainer.
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AZPSquared


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
khodder wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
I state again, this will devastate our ability to build a quality coaching staff. That makes all of this, literally, moot.


Maybe, maybe not, hire the coaching staff them do this. They are essentially taking over the 2012 Cardinals with upgrade at LG, Upgrade at QB, Upgrade at RB.

Also this is "literally" moot because our front office would never think of doing this. For some crazy reason they think the likes of Colledge and Snyder are NFL Quality starters.


Bolded: Oh, so you're going to be dishonest about your intentions to your staff? I'm sure that will go over well.


I'm on your side. They can win next season. There's plenty of talent on the roster, but they were held back by bad oline play and a hurt QB.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Bolded: Oh, so you're going to be dishonest about your intentions to your staff? I'm sure that will go over well.


Nope, you have to indicate you are going to clear deadwood, Bradley, Doucet, King, Brown, Colledge.

Encourage your staff to think Long Term.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZPSquared wrote:
I'm on your side. They can win next season. There's plenty of talent on the roster, but they were held back by bad oline play and a hurt QB.


Yet in this scenario we get said hurt QB back and we have improved on the OL. So why can this roster not compete?
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DirtyDez


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this would be a great plan long term but after the last 3 seasons and MB's disappointment I think we'll try to contend. Even though Snyder costs us 4M to cut he still needs to be released.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Bolded: Same response. It will devastate our ability to build a decent coaching staff. Nobody will knowingly sign up for 2-14 because nobody can turn 2-14 into something better.


Yet we enter the 2013 season with the same roster than everyone said we could push 8-8 9-7 with in 2012? I don't see how this roster has become a 2-14 roster.

QB - Kolb, Hoyer, Lindley
RB - Williams, LSH, Powell (Possibly Wells depending on Team Option)
FB - Sherman
WR - Fitzgerald, Roberts, Floyd, Byrd
TE - Housler, Sims, Depth
LT - Potter - Depth
LG - Warmack - Depth
C - Sendlein - Lewis/Wedige
RG - Ohrnberger - Depth
RT - Massie - Depth

LE - Campbell, Talley
NT - Williams, Eason
RE - Dockett, Carter

OLB - Thomas, Schofield
ILB - Washington, Walker
ILB - Klein/Lenon, Depth
OLB - Acho, Groves/Nash

CB - Peterons, Toler, Adams
CB - Gay, Fleming

FS - Rhodes, Bethel
SS - Wilson, Johnson, Sanders



1. That roster is purely paper, as it's based on players with significant injury histories all staying healthy and being productive players (For instance, your insistence that we'd have an upgrade at RB when you know nothing of the sort) and a number of unproven rookies who may or may not be productive players. Your also likely handing those players over to lesser coaches due to the obvious tank of the situation. You're not trying to improve in 2013, good coaches won't be blind to that.
2. Ya a few guys thought 7-9 or 8-8 was possible but we didn't finish 7-9 or 8-8. We finished 5-11 and limped to it.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Bolded: Oh, so you're going to be dishonest about your intentions to your staff? I'm sure that will go over well.


Nope, you have to indicate you are going to clear deadwood, Bradley, Doucet, King, Brown, Colledge.

Encourage your staff to think Long Term.


Bolded: The same coaches who watch teams clean house after 1-2 years all the time? Good luck with that.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
You save a helluva lot more by keeping Daryn Colledge who while merely average is our best offensive lineman. Not to mention the fact that the player you want to replace him with that may be quote "a guy like Ohrnberger", a clear DOWNGRADE.

Save more 2013 money and start a better player. That's a no-brainer.


Ohrnberger replaces Snyder
Colledge is upgraded big time by Chance Warmack.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
1. That roster is purely paper, as it's based on players with significant injury histories all staying healthy and being productive players (For instance, your insistence that we'd have an upgrade at RB when you know nothing of the sort) and a number of unproven rookies who may or may not be productive players. Your also likely handing those players over to lesser coaches due to the obvious tank of the situation. You're not trying to improve in 2013, good coaches won't be blind to that.
2. Ya a few guys thought 7-9 or 8-8 was possible but we didn't finish 7-9 or 8-8. We finished 5-11 and limped to it.


1 - What is anything based on at this stage of the season? If we wanted to tank the season I would have cut Kevin Kolb and not even tried to keep him around.

2 - We limped to 5-11 because we had no QB, it is a big if, but it is one we are going to gamble on in 2013 anyway, if Kolb plays 16 games we are an 8-8 football team.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Bolded: The same coaches who watch teams clean house after 1-2 years all the time? Good luck with that.


All the time? What we are doing here is cleansing the team of previous Pro Personnal and GM's mistakes. Getting rid of terrible contracts given to average players.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
You save a helluva lot more by keeping Daryn Colledge who while merely average is our best offensive lineman. Not to mention the fact that the player you want to replace him with that may be quote "a guy like Ohrnberger", a clear DOWNGRADE.

Save more 2013 money and start a better player. That's a no-brainer.


Ohrnberger replaces Snyder
Colledge is upgraded big time by Chance Warmack.


Move Colledge to RG. Now you've REALLY improved your OL as you've upgraded 2 spots at once and you use the money you'd lose by cutting Colledge/signing his replacement to acquire a useful 2013 player.

Simple fix.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Move Colledge to RG. Now you've REALLY improved your OL as you've upgraded 2 spots at once and you use the money you'd lose by cutting Colledge/signing his replacement to acquire a useful 2013 player.

Simple fix.


So you move a player to a position he has never played in his life, and in the end prolong the hurt of his cap situation just another year into the future. You have an NFL average guard hitting the cap for $21.8M over the next three years all that is doing is hurting this football team.

Cutting him also allows your owner to save 12.8M in real money.

Colledge and NFL average guard, over the next three years hits the cap for $3M less than an All-Pro Guard in Marshal Yanda.
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Last edited by khodder on Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:07 pm; edited 2 times in total
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Bolded: The same coaches who watch teams clean house after 1-2 years all the time? Good luck with that.


All the time? What we are doing here is cleansing the team of previous Pro Personnal and GM's mistakes. Getting rid of terrible contracts given to average players.


Ya, all the time. Coaches get 3 years max these days (If that) and you're tanking 1 of them. These guys aren't stupid, they can do the math.

And in that process, you concede the 2013 season. No coach will sign up for that. In which case, acquiring cap room and picks doesn't mean anything. They'll all likely be wasted by incompetent leaders.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Ya, all the time. Coaches get 3 years max these days (If that) and you're tanking 1 of them. These guys aren't stupid, they can do the math.

And in that process, you concede the 2013 season. No coach will sign up for that. In which case, acquiring cap room and picks doesn't mean anything. They'll all likely be wasted by incompetent leaders.


1 - Thought you were refering to us cleaning house every 1-2 years.
2 - It is not hard to communicate with your prospective coaches that you are not in it for a short run, we may not have the best roster in 2013, but that will allow us options going forwards. You can commincate that with a coach.
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