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Jaguars Name David Caldwell General Manager - No To Tebow
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stallyns


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
stallyns wrote:
When I seen his name I thought it sounded familiar. He was a college scout for the Colts before going to Atlanta. For a couple years before he left Polian was already flailing at the draft so he wasn't a real big loss for us.
Started his career with the Cinderella season Panthers, then moved on to the Colts the year they drafted Peyton. Then moved on to the Falcons to draft Matt Ryan.
except when he was with the Colts he scouted Pac10 Big10 and Big12, Tennessee is none of those
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stallyns wrote:
iPwn wrote:
stallyns wrote:
When I seen his name I thought it sounded familiar. He was a college scout for the Colts before going to Atlanta. For a couple years before he left Polian was already flailing at the draft so he wasn't a real big loss for us.
Started his career with the Cinderella season Panthers, then moved on to the Colts the year they drafted Peyton. Then moved on to the Falcons to draft Matt Ryan.
except when he was with the Colts he scouted Pac10 Big10 and Big12, Tennessee is none of those


Washington State is though and the big debate before that draft was Peyton Manning vs Ryan Leaf.
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stallyns


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
stallyns wrote:
iPwn wrote:
stallyns wrote:
When I seen his name I thought it sounded familiar. He was a college scout for the Colts before going to Atlanta. For a couple years before he left Polian was already flailing at the draft so he wasn't a real big loss for us.
Started his career with the Cinderella season Panthers, then moved on to the Colts the year they drafted Peyton. Then moved on to the Falcons to draft Matt Ryan.
except when he was with the Colts he scouted Pac10 Big10 and Big12, Tennessee is none of those


Washington State is though and the big debate before that draft was Peyton Manning vs Ryan Leaf.
but that wasn't the implication being made.
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stallyns wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
stallyns wrote:
iPwn wrote:
stallyns wrote:
When I seen his name I thought it sounded familiar. He was a college scout for the Colts before going to Atlanta. For a couple years before he left Polian was already flailing at the draft so he wasn't a real big loss for us.
Started his career with the Cinderella season Panthers, then moved on to the Colts the year they drafted Peyton. Then moved on to the Falcons to draft Matt Ryan.
except when he was with the Colts he scouted Pac10 Big10 and Big12, Tennessee is none of those


Washington State is though and the big debate before that draft was Peyton Manning vs Ryan Leaf.
but that wasn't the implication being made.


From what I can tell, the implication was that he had a hand in Peyton's selection which is probably at least partially true. I'm not sure how big his role was with the Colts past just being a scout, but I can presume that he was part of the reason they did not draft Leaf and I can presume that he did well and at least had more say as time went on considering how quickly he has ascended the roster management ranks in the NFL. He is 38 now which means he started at ~23 with the Colts.

I'm not saying he'll be good or anything, I'm just saying that he probably was a huge and valuable part of the Colts while he was there. Around 2007 when he left is when the drafts for the Colts started doing worse too. Not saying his absence is why, but it's at least an interesting coincidence.
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mikeyfarley


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is someone trying to argue the new Jags GM isn't better than Gene Smith when he hasn't even been on the job for 1 day?

If you're going to talk non stop about what happened when Caldwell wasn't the GM of Atlanta then you need to compare it to the years before Gene Smith was a GM.

Gene Smith, Del Rio, and Shack Harris used to make consensus decisions when Harris was the GM, but no Jags fans ever wanted to blame Gene Smith for anything that happened during that time.

Gene Smith was the director of pro personnel in 08(and had a huge hand in every personnel decision made), but never catches any flak for the disaster of the 08 FA moves the Jags made.

Smith should have never been given the role of GM back then and he proved that to be the case the past 4 years.

At least this time around the Jags interviewed multiple top candidates for the job instead of just giving it to someone already in the organization.
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Hotlanta12


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speedyg wrote:
JammerHammer21 wrote:
iPwn wrote:
JammerHammer21 wrote:
Speedyg wrote:
green24 wrote:
Speedyg wrote:
In 2009, Falcons took Jerry in 1st round, Moore in the 2nd round, 55.

Jaguars took a better players in Knighton, Cox in round 3.

William Moore is a really good player.


So is Cox.


When he's healthy, which he isn't always.
Not really something you can fault a GM for though. It wasn't like he had an injury history.


Oh certainly not. But I'm just saying Moore is probably the better pick since he's now contributing at a high level. Not that Cox was a bad pick.


Regardless, the point I'm trying to make is not to say that Gene was/is better than Caldwell. All I'm saying is that, really you look at their drafts, and there's really two standouts....Jones and Ryan (though Ryan was before Gene). Other than that, you're likely splitting hairs, with edge on Falcons on some, edge on Jaguars on some.

You give Julio and Ryan to the Jaguars and the Falcons GM/scouting department are the ones looking for a job while Gene sits pretty in Jacksonville.

Also, rumor has it that he's bringing Chris Polian with him. Mad

Dude, we've found our starting safeties in DeCoud and Moore. Our defensive leader in Sean Weatherspoon, Ryan, Jones. a good slot receiver in douglas.
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Hotlanta12


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speedyg wrote:
iPwn wrote:
Who cares if it was risky, if it worked out? Drafting players that work out is a good thing, regardless of how risky they looked at draft time. If a GM is able to find the risky players that worked out, why should that be viewed as anything but a good thing?

They felt they needed a game breaker WR. They targeted one, drafted him and he seems to have panned out so far. Anything else (aside from what they gave up to get him) is meaningless.

Gene hit a lot of base hits. That was his philosophy. It put a good number of "good" players on the roster, but no great ones (Cecil and Blackmon maybe will break that), having a GM that can hit the home runs and get a few Matt Ryan and Julio Jones types on this team will turn it around quickly if he can supplement them with some more base hits.


I'm not discounting it. But if your claim to fame is trading a boat-load of picks for a WR? I don't feel good about that, at all, because that's a risk that you lose majority of the time.

Did they need a game breaking WR? I guess, though I can argue they also needed a game-breaking pass-rusher since they spent a boatload of money on Edwards who flopped.

Are you serious? Did you watch the playoff game against the PAckers. We had little to no explosive plays. We were missing a WR opposite White. At the time that was our most important need, tog et more explosive on offense and we made the move and it has panned out.
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Hotlanta12


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speedyg wrote:
iPwn wrote:
Who cares if it was risky, if it worked out? Drafting players that work out is a good thing, regardless of how risky they looked at draft time. If a GM is able to find the risky players that worked out, why should that be viewed as anything but a good thing?

They felt they needed a game breaker WR. They targeted one, drafted him and he seems to have panned out so far. Anything else (aside from what they gave up to get him) is meaningless.

Gene hit a lot of base hits. That was his philosophy. It put a good number of "good" players on the roster, but no great ones (Cecil and Blackmon maybe will break that), having a GM that can hit the home runs and get a few Matt Ryan and Julio Jones types on this team will turn it around quickly if he can supplement them with some more base hits.


I'm not discounting it. But if your claim to fame is trading a boat-load of picks for a WR? I don't feel good about that, at all, because that's a risk that you lose majority of the time.

Did they need a game breaking WR? I guess, though I can argue they also needed a game-breaking pass-rusher since they spent a boatload of money on Edwards who flopped.

Are you serious? Did you watch the playoff game against the PAckers. We had little to no explosive plays. We were missing a WR opposite White. At the time that was our most important need, tog et more explosive on offense and we made the move and it has panned out.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stallyns wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
stallyns wrote:
iPwn wrote:
stallyns wrote:
When I seen his name I thought it sounded familiar. He was a college scout for the Colts before going to Atlanta. For a couple years before he left Polian was already flailing at the draft so he wasn't a real big loss for us.
Started his career with the Cinderella season Panthers, then moved on to the Colts the year they drafted Peyton. Then moved on to the Falcons to draft Matt Ryan.
except when he was with the Colts he scouted Pac10 Big10 and Big12, Tennessee is none of those


Washington State is though and the big debate before that draft was Peyton Manning vs Ryan Leaf.
but that wasn't the implication being made.
No implication at all. Just giving a brief history of his stops in the NFL for anyone interested.
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Speedyg


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
Speedyg wrote:
jrry32 wrote:


Maybe. But Gene didn't. Instead, he traded 2 valuable picks to move up for a bum QB. He reached for Alualu who hasn't panned out as expected. Ultimately, though, the Blaine Gabbert pick is what doomed him.

Gene wasn't a terrible GM. He just wasn't good. I guess will find out if Caldwell is.

But I wouldn't make assumptions until he's in charge. The Rams hired Snead last year from the Falcons who has been amazing. They hired Devaney, also from the Falcons, before Snead who was terrible. You never really know.


In fairness, Gene wasn't in charge when Ryan was available. Also, moving up for Julio would be stupid without a QB already in the fold. He had to get his QB first (just got the wrong guy, it appears).

And also, my goodness, take a look at the available QBs in the draft since he took over in 2009!!!!

2009 - Stafford he had no shot at. Then it was Sanchez and Freeman. The last two are not long-term answers 4 years later.

2010 - Bradford again had no shot at. Rest was Tebow, Clausen, McCoy?!? Ouch

2011 - This is where the first miss occurs, with Ponder, Dalton, and Colin as possibilities. I liked Ponder coming in, but he hasn't shown to be IT either and many Vikes fans want him gone. Hell, some vikes fans want Tebow instead of Ponder. Dalton probably has shown the most consistency of the guys the Jags could have had instead of Blaine, with Colin the most flash due to his athleticism.

2012 - IMO, this is probably the main "hit" on Gene. You can afford to miss on a QB. But you can't miss on a QB because of a Punter. Russell Wilson, meet Bryan Anger.


So your argument is that Smith didn't have a lot of great QBs available so it's acceptable that he traded two valuable picks for a terrible QB?

Not buying it. You live and die by your QB as GM the majority of the time. The fact that Gene used that pick on Blaine Gabbert speaks volumes. And you can't claim I'm being hypocritical. I hated the Gabbert pick from day 1 and thought he was not a first round prospect.


Absolutely, you live and die by your QB. But most QBs don't get pronounced "dead" after one terrible season of no-offseason with lame-duck coaches and one half-season cut short due to injury.

But yeah, the two are typically married together. I still think the Anger pick over Wilson is more of a damning reason in Gene's case.

When you take a Punter 3rd, to me, you're basically saying "I'm set. I can afford to take a Punter here". When you finish 2-14 after making that statement, clearly you erred majorly in judging the talent on your team (regardless of injuries)
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Speedyg


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hotlanta12 wrote:
Speedyg wrote:
JammerHammer21 wrote:
iPwn wrote:
JammerHammer21 wrote:
Speedyg wrote:
green24 wrote:
Speedyg wrote:
In 2009, Falcons took Jerry in 1st round, Moore in the 2nd round, 55.

Jaguars took a better players in Knighton, Cox in round 3.

William Moore is a really good player.


So is Cox.


When he's healthy, which he isn't always.
Not really something you can fault a GM for though. It wasn't like he had an injury history.


Oh certainly not. But I'm just saying Moore is probably the better pick since he's now contributing at a high level. Not that Cox was a bad pick.


Regardless, the point I'm trying to make is not to say that Gene was/is better than Caldwell. All I'm saying is that, really you look at their drafts, and there's really two standouts....Jones and Ryan (though Ryan was before Gene). Other than that, you're likely splitting hairs, with edge on Falcons on some, edge on Jaguars on some.

You give Julio and Ryan to the Jaguars and the Falcons GM/scouting department are the ones looking for a job while Gene sits pretty in Jacksonville.

Also, rumor has it that he's bringing Chris Polian with him. Mad

Dude, we've found our starting safeties in DeCoud and Moore. Our defensive leader in Sean Weatherspoon, Ryan, Jones. a good slot receiver in douglas.


And I can counter all of those names with guys that Gene has brought in for the Jags.

It is not those guys that is the difference between the Jaguars draft and the Falcons draft...it is Jones and Ryan's homerun pick.
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Speedyg


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikeyfarley wrote:
Why is someone trying to argue the new Jags GM isn't better than Gene Smith when he hasn't even been on the job for 1 day?


Because fans are "celebrating" as if the Jaguars problems are solved. Truth is, we don't know really who's making the calls behind the scenes, and we don't know who Caldwell had a hand in drafting

Quote:
If you're going to talk non stop about what happened when Caldwell wasn't the GM of Atlanta then you need to compare it to the years before Gene Smith was a GM.


Better question is, why aren't you using the same criteria for Caldwell?

Look at Caldwell's resume and he's followed the same path as Smith's. Caldwell's the "hot" guy because why? Because Bill Polian and Dimitroff speaks highly of him? You mean the same guys who spoke/speaks highly of Gene Smith?

He could turn out to be better than Gene. Or worse. We don't know. I'm just not jumping out of my seat and condemning Smith while proclaiming Caldwell as this grand savior when we really don't know.
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Its A Sabotage


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speedyg wrote:
Hotlanta12 wrote:
Speedyg wrote:
JammerHammer21 wrote:
iPwn wrote:
JammerHammer21 wrote:
Speedyg wrote:
green24 wrote:
Speedyg wrote:
In 2009, Falcons took Jerry in 1st round, Moore in the 2nd round, 55.

Jaguars took a better players in Knighton, Cox in round 3.

William Moore is a really good player.


So is Cox.


When he's healthy, which he isn't always.
Not really something you can fault a GM for though. It wasn't like he had an injury history.


Oh certainly not. But I'm just saying Moore is probably the better pick since he's now contributing at a high level. Not that Cox was a bad pick.


Regardless, the point I'm trying to make is not to say that Gene was/is better than Caldwell. All I'm saying is that, really you look at their drafts, and there's really two standouts....Jones and Ryan (though Ryan was before Gene). Other than that, you're likely splitting hairs, with edge on Falcons on some, edge on Jaguars on some.

You give Julio and Ryan to the Jaguars and the Falcons GM/scouting department are the ones looking for a job while Gene sits pretty in Jacksonville.

Also, rumor has it that he's bringing Chris Polian with him. Mad

Dude, we've found our starting safeties in DeCoud and Moore. Our defensive leader in Sean Weatherspoon, Ryan, Jones. a good slot receiver in douglas.


And I can counter all of those names with guys that Gene has brought in for the Jags.

It is not those guys that is the difference between the Jaguars draft and the Falcons draft...it is Jones and Ryan's homerun pick.


I would like to hear this, and please use Rod Issac and Chris "The Human Hurdling Machine" Prosinksi in it though.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do this increase or decrease Mularkey's chance of staying? With the Atlanta connection I assume it meant a bigger chance of him staying.
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Its A Sabotage


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RainbowCarebear wrote:
Do this increase or decrease Mularkey's chance of staying? With the Atlanta connection I assume it meant a bigger chance of him staying.


Decreases. Caldwell was one that wasn't happy with the consverative play that Mike called and the rumor is Caldwell amongst others were against signing him to an extension.
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