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lumberjackchris


Joined: 14 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolf6151 wrote:
jch1911 wrote:
2013 - 2014 cap: $124M (well, $123.9M)

per Chris Mortenson

https://twitter.com/mortreport/status/307276900395524096


What was the salary cap last season, and how much of an increase is this? This stagnant salary cap the last couple seasons sucks.


120.6
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jch1911


Joined: 21 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Texans: There’s persistent buzz that the Texans will tag safety Glover Quin, or no one.


per profootballtalk

Edit: Safety franchise #$6,916,000
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lumberjackchris


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, Pancakes is reporting that we have 7.6 mil in cap space with the new cap set at 123.9 mil for 2013-2014. The 7.6 is for us to use on current NFL players, with the rookie pool already taken out. If we cut Walter, and restructure/extend some guys, we should be able to re-sign GQ and bring in some vets.
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Marco79


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im very worried that we haven't cut Walter yet. If he ends up getting paid 3 million, they are idiots.
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amazingandre


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marco79 wrote:
Im very worried that we haven't cut Walter yet. If he ends up getting paid 3 million, they are idiots.


Yup I agree
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kenney


Joined: 24 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lumberjackchris wrote:
So, Pancakes is reporting that we have 7.6 mil in cap space with the new cap set at 123.9 mil for 2013-2014. The 7.6 is for us to use on current NFL players, with the rookie pool already taken out. If we cut Walter, and restructure/extend some guys, we should be able to re-sign GQ and bring in some vets.


Thank you. The sudden panic that we had to save/allocate money for rookies was new and misguided. Rookies are paid for in their first year through a pool that at all teams pay into periodically. It has never been the case that teams were entering the draft with a mandatory $5+MM in cap space. This myth was seemingly created by guys like Zierlein, Palillo, and Wright and everyone seemed to start taking it as gospel truth.
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Kenney>Everyone else on here
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenney wrote:
lumberjackchris wrote:
So, Pancakes is reporting that we have 7.6 mil in cap space with the new cap set at 123.9 mil for 2013-2014. The 7.6 is for us to use on current NFL players, with the rookie pool already taken out. If we cut Walter, and restructure/extend some guys, we should be able to re-sign GQ and bring in some vets.


Thank you. The sudden panic that we had to save/allocate money for rookies was new and misguided. Rookies are paid for in their first year through a pool that at all teams pay into periodically. It has never been the case that teams were entering the draft with a mandatory $5+MM in cap space. This myth was seemingly created by guys like Zierlein, Palillo, and Wright and everyone seemed to start taking it as gospel truth.


actually even then they dont count.....its only the top 45 or 48 players that count towards the salary cap
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kenney


Joined: 24 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
kenney wrote:
lumberjackchris wrote:
So, Pancakes is reporting that we have 7.6 mil in cap space with the new cap set at 123.9 mil for 2013-2014. The 7.6 is for us to use on current NFL players, with the rookie pool already taken out. If we cut Walter, and restructure/extend some guys, we should be able to re-sign GQ and bring in some vets.


Thank you. The sudden panic that we had to save/allocate money for rookies was new and misguided. Rookies are paid for in their first year through a pool that at all teams pay into periodically. It has never been the case that teams were entering the draft with a mandatory $5+MM in cap space. This myth was seemingly created by guys like Zierlein, Palillo, and Wright and everyone seemed to start taking it as gospel truth.


actually even then they dont count.....its only the top 45 or 48 players that count towards the salary cap


Yeah, that's what I meant to get at. Draftees have never counted against the same year's salary cap in the offseason.
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Kenney>Everyone else on here
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marco79 wrote:
Im very worried that we haven't cut Walter yet. If he ends up getting paid 3 million, they are idiots.


There is no reason to cut him until we have to. The other teams are cutting players to get under the cap by the beginning of the league year (March 12th) and we are in a great cap position due to Smith's efforts last season. No reason to cut Walter until we need his $3 million cap space to sign someone else. You don't count birds until they are hatched and you can always simultaneously cut Walter and sign the free agent (as we did in cutting Winston last year when the deal for Arian was complete). You also generally want to avoid cutting vets before the draft as it creates a more obvious hole on your roster and allows other teams to fill their holes and clarify their draft. Personally, I thought it was a mistake to cut Jacoby as soon as we did last year as I would have waited until May 31st (June 1st the cap hit spreads between two years vs. one). While giving released players as much time as possible on the open market may be a nice gesture, why give a team like the Ravens any added advantage of bringing in one of our players when we still barely knew what we had in Posey/Martin who were clearly very raw from the first day of camp and we weren't totally certain of AJ's health. We will almost certainly cut Walter at some point, but he remains the 2nd best WR on the roster right now and there is no reason to do so until we have at least two players projected ahead of him on the depth chart (via draft or FA signing or BOTH).

I actually will not be shocked to see Walter on this roster next year, but only after he gets cut and is exposed to waivers then can be resigned at the vet minimum if a team like the Redskins or Lions doesn't nab him. I have no problem with Walter on this roster as long as he is merely low cost veteran depth and not filling this bs need for a "blocking WR" in our system.
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Apollo Stallion


Joined: 06 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenney wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
kenney wrote:
lumberjackchris wrote:
So, Pancakes is reporting that we have 7.6 mil in cap space with the new cap set at 123.9 mil for 2013-2014. The 7.6 is for us to use on current NFL players, with the rookie pool already taken out. If we cut Walter, and restructure/extend some guys, we should be able to re-sign GQ and bring in some vets.


Thank you. The sudden panic that we had to save/allocate money for rookies was new and misguided. Rookies are paid for in their first year through a pool that at all teams pay into periodically. It has never been the case that teams were entering the draft with a mandatory $5+MM in cap space. This myth was seemingly created by guys like Zierlein, Palillo, and Wright and everyone seemed to start taking it as gospel truth.


actually even then they dont count.....its only the top 45 or 48 players that count towards the salary cap


Yeah, that's what I meant to get at. Draftees have never counted against the same year's salary cap in the offseason.


A few fact checks:

Top 51 players count against the cap during the offseason. ALL players count during the regular season (including IR and prorated salaries for cut players).

Team salary calculation for cap purposes includes the "Rookie Minimum Active Salary" as of the day of the draft for all drafted rookies (which varies by team based upon # of picks and draft positions). Actual salary replaces the projection upon signing and is reduced if drafted players are cut and clear waivers (unsigned players count until week 10).
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jch1911


Joined: 21 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ ^ ^ to touch on Apollo's point above

Kudos to Rick Smith

Houston was #5 (according to PFF) in getting performance-based-value from its players vs. the contracts that they signed

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/03/05/performance-based-value-team-totals/

They have a deeper analysis of the Texans performance-based value as a team here: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/02/27/performance-based-value-houston-texans/
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kenney


Joined: 24 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
kenney wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
kenney wrote:
lumberjackchris wrote:
So, Pancakes is reporting that we have 7.6 mil in cap space with the new cap set at 123.9 mil for 2013-2014. The 7.6 is for us to use on current NFL players, with the rookie pool already taken out. If we cut Walter, and restructure/extend some guys, we should be able to re-sign GQ and bring in some vets.


Thank you. The sudden panic that we had to save/allocate money for rookies was new and misguided. Rookies are paid for in their first year through a pool that at all teams pay into periodically. It has never been the case that teams were entering the draft with a mandatory $5+MM in cap space. This myth was seemingly created by guys like Zierlein, Palillo, and Wright and everyone seemed to start taking it as gospel truth.


actually even then they dont count.....its only the top 45 or 48 players that count towards the salary cap


Yeah, that's what I meant to get at. Draftees have never counted against the same year's salary cap in the offseason.


A few fact checks:

Top 51 players count against the cap during the offseason. ALL players count during the regular season (including IR and prorated salaries for cut players).

Team salary calculation for cap purposes includes the "Rookie Minimum Active Salary" as of the day of the draft for all drafted rookies (which varies by team based upon # of picks and draft positions). Actual salary replaces the projection upon signing and is reduced if drafted players are cut and clear waivers (unsigned players count until week 10).


That's fine, but what I'm emphasizing is that no team is setting aside $4.5MM+ of their cap to accommodate draft picks. If anyone actually had to do this, teams would be scrambling to cut players before the draft which has never happened in as long as I can remember.

Actual amount of a team's cap space occupied by their draft picks under the current system is $1.5MM or less (or, could be more if they have more multiple 1sts or 2nds).
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Kenney>Everyone else on here
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Marco79


Joined: 14 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/47872/my-plan-for-the-houston-texans
Quote:
Cut wide receiver Kevin Walter, saving $2.5 million in cap space. Restructure the deal of wide receiver Andre Johnson, reducing his base salary from $10.5 million to $940,000 (giving him the rest now as a bonus), resulting in a salary-cap savings of $7.17 million. Restructure the deal of cornerback Johnathan Joseph, reducing his base salary from $7.5 million to $940,000 (giving him the rest now as a bonus), resulting in a salary-cap savings of $4.373 million. Extend defensive end Antonio Smith, reducing his 2013 base salary of $6 million and his cap charge of $9.5 million significantly.

This is from Paul Kuharsky from ESPN. IF he is right and they did these moves, that would give us around 20 Million in cap space just from cutting Walter and restructuring Joseph and Johnson. Then any additional money that they would save by extending Cushing and Smith. If this happens we could definitely see the Texans be players in FA and grab someone like Wallace.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marco79 wrote:
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/47872/my-plan-for-the-houston-texans
Quote:
Cut wide receiver Kevin Walter, saving $2.5 million in cap space. Restructure the deal of wide receiver Andre Johnson, reducing his base salary from $10.5 million to $940,000 (giving him the rest now as a bonus), resulting in a salary-cap savings of $7.17 million. Restructure the deal of cornerback Johnathan Joseph, reducing his base salary from $7.5 million to $940,000 (giving him the rest now as a bonus), resulting in a salary-cap savings of $4.373 million. Extend defensive end Antonio Smith, reducing his 2013 base salary of $6 million and his cap charge of $9.5 million significantly.

This is from Paul Kuharsky from ESPN. IF he is right and they did these moves, that would give us around 20 Million in cap space just from cutting Walter and restructuring Joseph and Johnson. Then any additional money that they would save by extending Cushing and Smith. If this happens we could definitely see the Texans be players in FA and grab someone like Wallace.


Kuharsky is a bafoon who needs to stick to just re-reporting other people's stories vs. original thought of his own. His lack of understanding of the cap is on full display here as he is nowhere close on his numbers and ignores the ramifications of pushing huge salaries down the line via restructure as you inevitably create a nightmare scenario of dead money should you ever need to get out of a deal. Sure AJ and JJ present no risk of not being worth the money THIS year, but AJs cap numbers in 2014-2016 were already a problem with his extension and we have subsequently restructured last year to get Foster/Myers/Schaub done. Understand that each time you restructure, you reduce the # of years you have to prorate the bonus so now he proposes essentially adding another $3.3 million annually to AJs 2014-2016 number which pushes 2015-2016 to north of $17 million each season when AJ will be 34 & 35 and presumably in decline. If you wanted to script a scenario where we almost have to cut AJ in 2015, follow Kuharsky's plan. And we're doing this to get a one trick pony receiver in Wallace who's production has slipped two years in a row (64 rec / 836 yards last year) that is expecting $10 million+ per season on a 5 year+ deal. Teams like the Dolphins (who WILL sign him) awash in cap room both in current and future years are in a position to pay him that kind of money, the Texans would be paying receivers close to $30 million per season just a few years into this which simply doesn't work (ask the Cardinals with Fitz/Boldin) especially when the RB carries $9 & $9.5 million hits in 2015-16 and the QB carries $17 & $19 million hits in 2015-16. The Texans HAVE to draft and develop a WR on their own that will be poised to take over both AJs production and cap value in 2017 after playing out his rookie deal, not pay for another concurrently. Don't forget, JJ Watt's rookie deal is up in 2014 and I think he may be in for just a bit of a raise over the $3.5 million cap value in the final year of his rookie deal.
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kidnextdoor


Joined: 14 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
Marco79 wrote:
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/47872/my-plan-for-the-houston-texans
Quote:
Cut wide receiver Kevin Walter, saving $2.5 million in cap space. Restructure the deal of wide receiver Andre Johnson, reducing his base salary from $10.5 million to $940,000 (giving him the rest now as a bonus), resulting in a salary-cap savings of $7.17 million. Restructure the deal of cornerback Johnathan Joseph, reducing his base salary from $7.5 million to $940,000 (giving him the rest now as a bonus), resulting in a salary-cap savings of $4.373 million. Extend defensive end Antonio Smith, reducing his 2013 base salary of $6 million and his cap charge of $9.5 million significantly.

This is from Paul Kuharsky from ESPN. IF he is right and they did these moves, that would give us around 20 Million in cap space just from cutting Walter and restructuring Joseph and Johnson. Then any additional money that they would save by extending Cushing and Smith. If this happens we could definitely see the Texans be players in FA and grab someone like Wallace.


Kuharsky is a bafoon who needs to stick to just re-reporting other people's stories vs. original thought of his own. His lack of understanding of the cap is on full display here as he is nowhere close on his numbers and ignores the ramifications of pushing huge salaries down the line via restructure as you inevitably create a nightmare scenario of dead money should you ever need to get out of a deal. Sure AJ and JJ present no risk of not being worth the money THIS year, but AJs cap numbers in 2014-2016 were already a problem with his extension and we have subsequently restructured last year to get Foster/Myers/Schaub done. Understand that each time you restructure, you reduce the # of years you have to prorate the bonus so now he proposes essentially adding another $3.3 million annually to AJs 2014-2016 number which pushes 2015-2016 to north of $17 million each season when AJ will be 34 & 35 and presumably in decline. If you wanted to script a scenario where we almost have to cut AJ in 2015, follow Kuharsky's plan. And we're doing this to get a one trick pony receiver in Wallace who's production has slipped two years in a row (64 rec / 836 yards last year) that is expecting $10 million+ per season on a 5 year+ deal. Teams like the Dolphins (who WILL sign him) awash in cap room both in current and future years are in a position to pay him that kind of money, the Texans would be paying receivers close to $30 million per season just a few years into this which simply doesn't work (ask the Cardinals with Fitz/Boldin) especially when the RB carries $9 & $9.5 million hits in 2015-16 and the QB carries $17 & $19 million hits in 2015-16. The Texans HAVE to draft and develop a WR on their own that will be poised to take over both AJs production and cap value in 2017 after playing out his rookie deal, not pay for another concurrently. Don't forget, JJ Watt's rookie deal is up in 2014 and I think he may be in for just a bit of a raise over the $3.5 million cap value in the final year of his rookie deal.


I agree the cap hits for Dre and J. Joe are bloated in the back end because of last years restructuring...

There is no point in going after any WR free agent for all the reasons that you just said.... Signing a free agent WR is not an option and is not going to happen
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