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PAtexansFAN99


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 4430
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o5PkwO67vE

Howie Long's kid Kyle Long the former DL played LT for Chip Kelly last year. Walter Football's got him as a round 3-5 prospect.
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texans_uk


Joined: 26 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PAtexansFAN99 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o5PkwO67vE

Howie Long's kid Kyle Long the former DL played LT for Chip Kelly last year. Walter Football's got him as a round 3-5 prospect.


Hopefully he isn't the Casey Matthews to Clay Matthews, to Chris Long
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lumberjackchris


Joined: 14 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PAtexansFAN99 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o5PkwO67vE

Howie Long's kid Kyle Long the former DL played LT for Chip Kelly last year. Walter Football's got him as a round 3-5 prospect.


Eh 3rd-5th is a bit low. I see him as a late 2nd to 3rd. Plus there's always runs on tackles with quite a few being over drafted. I wouldn't mind him, but I think Wagner from Wisconsin is slidong due to a poor Sr season. I think he could be there in the 3rd with either of our picks.
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the smart guys who know the cap real well, is there anyway Aj, Smith and OD can re-work their deals, assuming they would. Aj more importantly increase the cap 5 million this season. Can anything be done?

I was thinking extending Smith say 2 years and spreading the cap hit out, thus lowering the hit this year. Same for OD, or can this not be done at this point?

Honestly if these aren't possible, I wouldn't be surprised if Smith or OD got the boot this off-season. Or some like Walter will be cut, and no street free agent will be signed.
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texandominance


Joined: 22 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
For the smart guys who know the cap real well, is there anyway Aj, Smith and OD can re-work their deals, assuming they would. Aj more importantly increase the cap 5 million this season. Can anything be done?

I was thinking extending Smith say 2 years and spreading the cap hit out, thus lowering the hit this year. Same for OD, or can this not be done at this point?

Honestly if these aren't possible, I wouldn't be surprised if Smith or OD got the boot this off-season. Or some like Walter will be cut, and no street free agent will be signed.


Didn't AJ just re-do his deal last year? If so, he can't this offseason
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dsorc


Joined: 16 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
For the smart guys who know the cap real well, is there anyway Aj, Smith and OD can re-work their deals, assuming they would. Aj more importantly increase the cap 5 million this season. Can anything be done?

I was thinking extending Smith say 2 years and spreading the cap hit out, thus lowering the hit this year. Same for OD, or can this not be done at this point?

Honestly if these aren't possible, I wouldn't be surprised if Smith or OD got the boot this off-season. Or some like Walter will be cut, and no street free agent will be signed.

Yes it is possible to re-work the deals of OD, Antonio, and Walter. I'll start with Walter. Each case is a little different.

The biggest thing in his case is that nothing can be done until the end of March because you have to wait 12 month before re-structuring his deal again. He could take another paycut like last year. Also, all of his money is non-guaranteed as his bonus was not a signing bonus so it should not be prorated. He's the easiest to cut moneywise.

In the case of Antonio, the only option is to extend him. He will be on the books for at least 3.8mill from prorated signing bonus and his re-structuring in 2011. If we extend him, we would tack on the prorated bonus plus salary (minimum of .855mill). As long as the signing bonus is low or the years are long, we could conceivably lower his cap hit but there is not much room to gain here. We should consider extending him to a team-friendly deal if we can anyway simple based on his play.

With OD you have two options: extend him or re-structure to turn part of his salary into signing bonus. The former is like Antonio above while the latter would kick our butts next year. Cutting him would free about 2-2.5mill I believe.

Another name to consider is Wade Smith. His play is declining him and cutting him would net us 3mill in cap-space. But would we be willing to go with Ben Jones and Brandon Brooks as our starting guards? I don't see Wade being with us after his contract is done anyway.

Two final notes that I haven't seen considered in this thread: Only the top 51 salaries count towards the cap. Don't worry about PS players and bottom of the barrel guys. And also, veteran players (4+ years of experience) getting the minimum do not count up to their full salary for cap considerations, they instead count the same as the minimum salary for a player with 2 years of experience. However, any bonuses get added up on top of that.
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amazingandre


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dsorc wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
For the smart guys who know the cap real well, is there anyway Aj, Smith and OD can re-work their deals, assuming they would. Aj more importantly increase the cap 5 million this season. Can anything be done?

I was thinking extending Smith say 2 years and spreading the cap hit out, thus lowering the hit this year. Same for OD, or can this not be done at this point?

Honestly if these aren't possible, I wouldn't be surprised if Smith or OD got the boot this off-season. Or some like Walter will be cut, and no street free agent will be signed.

Yes it is possible to re-work the deals of OD, Antonio, and Walter. I'll start with Walter. Each case is a little different.

The biggest thing in his case is that nothing can be done until the end of March because you have to wait 12 month before re-structuring his deal again. He could take another paycut like last year. Also, all of his money is non-guaranteed as his bonus was not a signing bonus so it should not be prorated. He's the easiest to cut moneywise.

In the case of Antonio, the only option is to extend him. He will be on the books for at least 3.8mill from prorated signing bonus and his re-structuring in 2011. If we extend him, we would tack on the prorated bonus plus salary (minimum of .855mill). As long as the signing bonus is low or the years are long, we could conceivably lower his cap hit but there is not much room to gain here. We should consider extending him to a team-friendly deal if we can anyway simple based on his play.

With OD you have two options: extend him or re-structure to turn part of his salary into signing bonus. The former is like Antonio above while the latter would kick our butts next year. Cutting him would free about 2-2.5mill I believe.

Another name to consider is Wade Smith. His play is declining him and cutting him would net us 3mill in cap-space. But would we be willing to go with Ben Jones and Brandon Brooks as our starting guards? I don't see Wade being with us after his contract is done anyway.

Two final notes that I haven't seen considered in this thread: Only the top 51 salaries count towards the cap. Don't worry about PS players and bottom of the barrel guys. And also, veteran players (4+ years of experience) getting the minimum do not count up to their full salary for cap considerations, they instead count the same as the minimum salary for a player with 2 years of experience. However, any bonuses get added up on top of that.


Personally Id rather cut Walter and extend Smith. I feel we might try to trade OD, just a feeling.

Wade is def, not worth that much, would they extend him and lower his hit this season? Not sure he is wroth it, BUT is it worth letting him go for a younger player?
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lumberjackchris


Joined: 14 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

texandominance wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
For the smart guys who know the cap real well, is there anyway Aj, Smith and OD can re-work their deals, assuming they would. Aj more importantly increase the cap 5 million this season. Can anything be done?

I was thinking extending Smith say 2 years and spreading the cap hit out, thus lowering the hit this year. Same for OD, or can this not be done at this point?

Honestly if these aren't possible, I wouldn't be surprised if Smith or OD got the boot this off-season. Or some like Walter will be cut, and no street free agent will be signed.


Didn't AJ just re-do his deal last year? If so, he can't this offseason


I don't know if re-do is the right word. We reallocated some bonus money and turned it into more guaranteed money, and we've done this for the past 2 seasons so I believe we can still do that. Saying that I believe can lower his cap hit for one more year if we give him transfer more of his bonus money into guaranteeing but then will owe him around 15 mil in 2014 and 19-20 mil in 2015-2016 which is way to much. We can't cut Dre so soon, I believe will have to offer him another couple years extension while taking a paycut to even out the cap hits we are set to take on in the last 3 years of this current deal. I'm not sure of the total amount of money Dre's made in his career and what he has in savings but he seems like a guy especially getting towards the end of his career that wants to win a championship and would take a pay cut in exchange for a couple more years.
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dsorc


Joined: 16 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:


Personally Id rather cut Walter and extend Smith. I feel we might try to trade OD, just a feeling.

Wade is def, not worth that much, would they extend him and lower his hit this season? Not sure he is wroth it, BUT is it worth letting him go for a younger player?

Trading OD is the same as cutting him for cap purposes. And you could extend Wade but I don't think he is worth the extension. It would work the same way as with Antonio but with the benefit that Wade has only about 750k tied up on bonuses so far.
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dsorc wrote:
amazingandre wrote:


Personally Id rather cut Walter and extend Smith. I feel we might try to trade OD, just a feeling.

Wade is def, not worth that much, would they extend him and lower his hit this season? Not sure he is wroth it, BUT is it worth letting him go for a younger player?

Trading OD is the same as cutting him for cap purposes. And you could extend Wade but I don't think he is worth the extension. It would work the same way as with Antonio but with the benefit that Wade has only about 750k tied up on bonuses so far.


for smith

so if we extend him, only the 2.5 would stay.

So if we did 3 years 12 mil, with 6 mil signing bonus youd have (hed actually get 12.5 this season, but not all of that is against the cap)

4 + 2.5 + 2, saving a million and keeping him another 3 years while lowering his hit the next 2 seasons (2014 and 2015), correct?
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dsorc


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
dsorc wrote:
amazingandre wrote:


Personally Id rather cut Walter and extend Smith. I feel we might try to trade OD, just a feeling.

Wade is def, not worth that much, would they extend him and lower his hit this season? Not sure he is wroth it, BUT is it worth letting him go for a younger player?

Trading OD is the same as cutting him for cap purposes. And you could extend Wade but I don't think he is worth the extension. It would work the same way as with Antonio but with the benefit that Wade has only about 750k tied up on bonuses so far.


for smith

so if we extend him, only the 2.5 would stay.

So if we did 3 years 12 mil, with 6 mil signing bonus youd have (hed actually get 12.5 this season, but not all of that is against the cap)

4 + 2.5 + 2, saving a million and keeping him another 3 years while lowering his hit the next 2 seasons (2014 and 2015), correct?

That 2.5 is actually 3.8 because of a re-structure in 2011. Then by 3 years 12 mill with 6 mil signing bonus I assume salaries evenly split at 4 mill for 3 years? Or do you mean 6 mill in total salary and 6 mill in bonus?

Either way, all of his bonus proration will be in the cap this year and would not be extended into the new deal so we can ignore that for a second. He has a 6 million dollar salary, so to reduce his cap number you would want year 1 salary plus prorated cap to be less than that.
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dsorc wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
dsorc wrote:
amazingandre wrote:


Personally Id rather cut Walter and extend Smith. I feel we might try to trade OD, just a feeling.

Wade is def, not worth that much, would they extend him and lower his hit this season? Not sure he is wroth it, BUT is it worth letting him go for a younger player?

Trading OD is the same as cutting him for cap purposes. And you could extend Wade but I don't think he is worth the extension. It would work the same way as with Antonio but with the benefit that Wade has only about 750k tied up on bonuses so far.


for smith

so if we extend him, only the 2.5 would stay.

So if we did 3 years 12 mil, with 6 mil signing bonus youd have (hed actually get 12.5 this season, but not all of that is against the cap)

4 + 2.5 + 2, saving a million and keeping him another 3 years while lowering his hit the next 2 seasons (2014 and 2015), correct?

That 2.5 is actually 3.8 because of a re-structure in 2011. Then by 3 years 12 mill with 6 mil signing bonus I assume salaries evenly split at 4 mill for 3 years? Or do you mean 6 mill in total salary and 6 mill in bonus?

Either way, all of his bonus proration will be in the cap this year and would not be extended into the new deal so we can ignore that for a second. He has a 6 million dollar salary, so to reduce his cap number you would want year 1 salary plus prorated cap to be less than that.


12 mil over 3 years, yes. So 4 a year. 6 mil, signing bonus evenly split, so another 2 a year. This year he gets (as you pointed out) 3.8 coming to him either way.

Year 1 - 9.8
Year 2 - 6
Year 3 - 6

Would be that be right? Either way, it won't lower our hit this season which was the goal hah
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dsorc


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
dsorc wrote:
amazingandre wrote:

for smith

so if we extend him, only the 2.5 would stay.

So if we did 3 years 12 mil, with 6 mil signing bonus youd have (hed actually get 12.5 this season, but not all of that is against the cap)

4 + 2.5 + 2, saving a million and keeping him another 3 years while lowering his hit the next 2 seasons (2014 and 2015), correct?

That 2.5 is actually 3.8 because of a re-structure in 2011. Then by 3 years 12 mill with 6 mil signing bonus I assume salaries evenly split at 4 mill for 3 years? Or do you mean 6 mill in total salary and 6 mill in bonus?

Either way, all of his bonus proration will be in the cap this year and would not be extended into the new deal so we can ignore that for a second. He has a 6 million dollar salary, so to reduce his cap number you would want year 1 salary plus prorated cap to be less than that.


12 mil over 3 years, yes. So 4 a year. 6 mil, signing bonus evenly split, so another 2 a year. This year he gets (as you pointed out) 3.8 coming to him either way.

Year 1 - 9.8
Year 2 - 6
Year 3 - 6

Would be that be right? Either way, it won't lower our hit this season which was the goal hah

I was confused because that contract would get reported as 3 years 18 million. You could stagger his salaries (3/4/5) to reduce the cap this year but then you'll get a higher hit on year 3 of the extension. Also, would Antonio be willing to sign for so little? Compare to Vince Wilfork at an average of 8 mill a year. My guess is that Antonio will want at least 7.
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lumberjackchris


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dsorc wrote:
I was confused because that contract would get reported as 3 years 18 million. You could stagger his salaries (3/4/5) to reduce the cap this year but then you'll get a higher hit on year 3 of the extension. Also, would Antonio be willing to sign for so little? Compare to Vince Wilfork at an average of 8 mill a year. My guess is that Antonio will want at least 7.


That's why I think he'll be asked to take this sort of pay cut and if he refuses, he'll be cut. We have Crick and Jamison coming off injury plus another mid round rookie we would probably draft.

I get his importance, but just like last year we might have to make decisions for the better of the team in the long run and while Crick or Jamison isn't to the level of Antonio I think they could hold their own.
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lumberjackchris wrote:
dsorc wrote:
I was confused because that contract would get reported as 3 years 18 million. You could stagger his salaries (3/4/5) to reduce the cap this year but then you'll get a higher hit on year 3 of the extension. Also, would Antonio be willing to sign for so little? Compare to Vince Wilfork at an average of 8 mill a year. My guess is that Antonio will want at least 7.


That's why I think he'll be asked to take this sort of pay cut and if he refuses, he'll be cut. We have Crick and Jamison coming off injury plus another mid round rookie we would probably draft.

I get his importance, but just like last year we might have to make decisions for the better of the team in the long run and while Crick or Jamison isn't to the level of Antonio I think they could hold their own.


Id rpefer to cut OD and wade before antonio...i dont think we have a good enough replacement at de right now, crick showed nothing, at least we have Graham and the proven ability to draft good te's.
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