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rudyZ


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 15005
Location: Québec
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

miner49er wrote:
I don't like the fact that Goldson is on the market. We should have dealt with this. The back end is the achilles heel and we can't afford a downgrade.



We have addressed the Dashon issue... several times... 2 years ago, last year, this year again. And our back end isn't our achille's heel, okay? 4th in pass defense. The DBs were doing fine. Let's not overreact to a few big plays in the playoffs, just because they are fresher to our memory. All teams give up big plays. We actually gave up the 3rd fewest passes of 20+ yards this year, and the tenth fewest passes of 40+ yards. I don't see how pass D has suddenly become our weakness.
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oldman9er


Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 42361
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

miner49er wrote:
I don't like the fact that Goldson is on the market. We should have dealt with this. The back end is the achilles heel and we can't afford a downgrade.


Don't sweat it for a second. People were panicking about Aubrayo Franklin departing... talk about d'oh! .
_______________________________________________________________________

First Round

01.) Tampa Bay Bucs - select - Jameis Winston / QB / Florida State
02.) Tennessee Titans - select - Leonard Williams / DE / USC
03.) Jacksonville Jaguars - select - Vic Beasley / EDGE / Clemson
04.) Oakland Raiders - select - Amari Cooper / WR / Alabama
05.) Washington Redskins - select - Dante Fowler / EDGE / Florida
06.) New York Jets - select - Marcus Mariota / QB / Oregon
07.) Chicago Bears - select - Kevin White / WR / West Virginia
08.) Atlanta Falcons - select - Randy Gregory / EDGE / Nebraska
09.) New York Giants - select - Brandon Scherff / OL / Iowa
10.) St. Louis Rams - select - Andrus Peat / OL / Stanford
11.) Minnesota Vikings - select - La'el Collins / OL / Louisiana State
12.) Cleveland Browns - select - DeVante Parker / WR / Louisville
13.) New Orleans Saints - select - Alvin Dupree / EDGE / Kentucky
14.) Miami Dolphins - select - Todd Gurley / RB / Georgia
15.) San Francisco 49ers - select - Trae Waynes / CB / Michigan State
16.) Houston Texans - select - Eric Kendricks / LB / UCLA
17.) San Diego Chargers - select - Danny Shelton / NT / Washington
18.) Kansas City Chiefs - select - Ereck Flowers / OL / Miami
19.) Cleveland Browns < via BUF > - select - Brett Hundley / QB / UCLA
20.) Philadelphia Eagles - select - Jake Fisher / OL / Oregon
21.) Cincinnati Bengals - select - Malcom Brown / DT / Texas
22.) Pittsburgh Steelers - select - Kevin Johnson / CB / Wake Forest
23.) Detroit Lions - select - Melvin Gordon / RB / Wisconsin
24.) Arizona Cardinals - select - Shane Ray / EDGE / Missouri
25.) Carolina Panthers - select - Jaelen Strong / WR / Arizona State
26.) Baltimore Ravens - select - Marcus Peters / CB / Washington
27.) Dallas Cowboys - select - Eddie Goldman / DT / Florida State
28.) Denver Broncos - select - D.J. Humphries / OL / Florida
29.) Indianapolis Colts - select - Landon Collins / S / Alabama
30.) Green Bay Packers - select - Jalen Collins / CB / Louisiana State
31.) New Orleans Saints - < via SEA > select - Phillip Dorsett / WR / Miami
32.) New England Patriots - select - Carl Davis / DL / Iowa


Second Round

33.) Tennessee Titans - select - T.J. Clemmings / OL / Pittsburgh
34.) Tampa Bay Bucs - select - Preston Smith / EDGE / Mississippi State
35.) Oakland Raiders - select - Owa Odighizuma / EDGE / UCLA
36.) Jacksonville Jaguars - select - T.J. Yeldon / RB / Alabama
37.) New York Jets - select - Eli Harold / EDGE / Virginia
38.) Washington Redskins - select - Donovan Smith / OL / Penn State
39.) Chicago Bears - select - Bryce Petty / QB / Baylor
40.) New York Giants - select - Shaq Thompson / S-OLB / Washington
41.) St. Louis Rams - select - A.J. Cann / OL / South Carolina
42.) Atlanta Falcons - select - Denzel Perryman / LB / Miami
43.) Cleveland Browns - select - Nate Orchard / EDGE / Utah
44.) New Orleans Saints - select - Max Williams / TE / Minnesota
45.) Minnesota Vikings - select - Eric Rowe / CB-S / Utah
46.) San Francisco 49ers - select - Stephone Anthony / LB / Clemson
47.) Miami Dolphins - select - Byron Jones / CB-S / Connecticut
48.) San Diego Chargers - select - Laken Tomlinson / OL / Duke
49.) Kansas City Chiefs - select - Nelson Agholor / WR / USC
50.) Buffalo Bills - select - Cedric Ogbuehi / OL / Texas A&M
51.) Houston Texans - select - Dorial Green-Beckham / WR / Oklahoma
52.) Philadelphia Eagles -
53.) Cincinnati Bengals -
54.) Detroit Lions -
55.) Arizona Cardinals -
56.) Pittsburgh Steelers -
57.) Carolina Panthers -
58.) Baltimore Ravens -
59.) Denver Broncos -
60.) Dallas Cowboys -
61.) Indianapolis Colts -
62.) Green Bay Packers -
63.) Seattle Seahawks -
64.) New England Patriots -
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miner49er


Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 450
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldman9er wrote:
miner49er wrote:
I don't like the fact that Goldson is on the market. We should have dealt with this. The back end is the achilles heel and we can't afford a downgrade.


Don't sweat it for a second. People were panicking about Aubrayo Franklin departing... talk about d'oh! .


I think my worries come from liking the guy and having images of Boldin catching balls in the SB. I'm curious though how anyone could say the defensive backfield is not the issue we should be most worried about. We can't be run on so clearly the weaker part must be the pass. Given its a pass heavy league, I can't help but have some worries that getting worse in the backfield would seriously damage this teams immediate chances.
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oldman9er


Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 42361
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

miner49er wrote:
oldman9er wrote:
miner49er wrote:
I don't like the fact that Goldson is on the market. We should have dealt with this. The back end is the achilles heel and we can't afford a downgrade.


Don't sweat it for a second. People were panicking about Aubrayo Franklin departing... talk about d'oh! .


I think my worries come from liking the guy and having images of Boldin catching balls in the SB. I'm curious though how anyone could say the defensive backfield is not the issue we should be most worried about. We can't be run on so clearly the weaker part must be the pass. Given its a pass heavy league, I can't help but have some worries that getting worse in the backfield would seriously damage this teams immediate chances.


Yeah, I love me some rudyZ, but I am not on the "pass cover D is fine" wagon. I do think we have the personnel and talent (except for Whitner's sorry arse)... I just hate how that talent is utilized. It's often the same Manusky, bend-don't-break crap (soft 10 yard CB cushions)... but it works more often than not, so everyone just looks the other way. That, and Carlos Rogers as a NCB is teh suxxorz. We could be so much more, IMHO... and quite frankly, I have learned to despise the 3-4 scheme over these years. Sure, we hang around the top each year, statistically... but I think our personnel is just that good.
____________________________________________________________________

Third Round

65.) Tampa Bay Bucs -
66.) Tennessee Titans -
67.) Jacksonville Jaguars -
68.) Oakland Raiders -
69.) Washington Redskins -
70.) New York Jets -
71.) Chicago Bears -
72.) St. Louis Rams -
73.) Atlanta Falcons -
74.) New York Giants -
75.) New Orleans Saints -
76.) Minnesota Vikings -
77.) Cleveland Browns -
78.) New Orleans Saints - < via MIA >
79.) San Francisco 49ers -
80.) Kansas City Chiefs -
81.) Buffalo Bills -
82.) Houston Texans -
83.) San Diego Chargers -
84.) Philadelphia Eagles -
85.) Cincinnati Bengals -
86.) Arizona Cardinals -
87.) Pittsburgh Steelers -
88.) Detroit Lions -
89.) Carolina Panthers -
90.) Baltimore Ravens -
91.) Dallas Cowboys -
92.) Denver Broncos -
93.) Indianapolis Colts -
94.) Green Bay Packers -
95.) Seattle Seahawks -
96.) New England Patriots -
97.) New England Patriots - < c >
98.) Kansas City Chiefs - < c >
99.) Cincinnati Bengals - < c >


Fourth Round

100.) Tennessee Titans -
101.) New England Patriots - < via TB >
102.) Oakland Raiders -
103.) Jacksonville Jaguars -
104.) New York Jets -
105.) Washington Redskins -
106.) Chicago Bears -
107.) Atlanta Falcons -
108.) New York Giants -
109.) Tampa Bay Bucs - < via STL >
110.) Minnesota Vikings -
111.) Cleveland Browns -
112.) Seattle Seahawks - < via NO >
113.) Philadelphia Eagles - < via BUF/SF >
114.) Miami Dolphins -
115.) Cleveland Browns - < via BUF >
116.) Houston Texans -
117.) San Diego Chargers -
118.) Kansas City Chiefs -
119.) St. Louis Rams - < via PHI >
120.) Cincinnati Bengals -
121.) Pittsburgh Steelers -
122.) Baltimore Ravens - < via DET >
123.) Arizona Cardinals -
124.) Carolina Panthers -
125.) Baltimore Ravens -
126.) San Francisco 49ers - < via DEN >
127.) Dallas Cowboys -
128.) Indianapolis Colts -
129.) Green Bay Packers -
130.) Seattle Seahawks -
131.) New England Patriots -
132.) San Francisco 49ers - < c >
133.) Denver Broncos - < c >
134.) Seattle Seahawks - < c >
135.) Cincinnati Bengals - < c >
136.) Baltimore Ravens - < c >

Fifth Round

137.) Minnesota Vikings - < via BUF/TB >
138.) Tennessee Titans -
139.) Jacksonville Jaguars -
140.) Oakland Raiders -
141.) Washington Redskins -
142.) Chicago Bears - < via NYJ >
143.) Denver Broncos - < via CHI >
144.) New York Giants -
145.) Philadelphia Eagles - < via STL >
146.) Atlanta Falcons -
147.) Cleveland Browns -
148.) New Orleans Saints -
149.) Miami Dolphins - < via MIN >
150.) Miami Dolphins -
151.) San Francisco 49ers -
152.) Houston Texans -
153.) San Diego Chargers -
154.) New Orleans Saints - < via KC >
155.) Buffalo Bills -
156.) Philadelphia Eagles -
157.) Cincinnati Bengals -
158.) Baltimore Ravens - < via DET >
159.) Arizona Cardinals -
160.) Pittsburgh Steelers -
161.) Carolina Panthers -
162.) Tampa Bay Bucs - < via BAL >
163.) Dallas Cowboys -
164.) Denver Broncos -
165.) Indianapolis Colts -
166.) Green Bay Packers -
167.) Seattle Seahawks -
168.) Tampa Bay Bucs - < c >
169.) Carolina Panthers - < c >
170.) Seattle Seahawks - < c >
171.) Baltimore Ravens - < c >
172.) Kansas City Chiefs - < c >
173.) Kansas City Chiefs - < c >
174.) Houston Texans - < c >
175.) Baltimore Ravens - < c >
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Forge


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 9316
Location: Las Vegas
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldman9er wrote:
miner49er wrote:
oldman9er wrote:
miner49er wrote:
I don't like the fact that Goldson is on the market. We should have dealt with this. The back end is the achilles heel and we can't afford a downgrade.


Don't sweat it for a second. People were panicking about Aubrayo Franklin departing... talk about d'oh! .


I think my worries come from liking the guy and having images of Boldin catching balls in the SB. I'm curious though how anyone could say the defensive backfield is not the issue we should be most worried about. We can't be run on so clearly the weaker part must be the pass. Given its a pass heavy league, I can't help but have some worries that getting worse in the backfield would seriously damage this teams immediate chances.


Yeah, I love me some rudyZ, but I am not on the "pass cover D is fine" wagon. I do think we have the personnel and talent (except for Whitner's sorry arse)... I just hate how that talent is utilized. It's often the same Manusky, bend-don't-break crap (soft 10 yard CB cushions)... but it works more often than not, so everyone just looks the other way. That, and Carlos Rogers as a NCB is teh suxxorz. We could be so much more, IMHO... and quite frankly, I have learned to despise the 3-4 scheme over these years. Sure, we hang around the top each year, statistically... but I think our personnel is just that good.


I think our secondary is average, with average talent. Could definitely be upgraded. As much as I love tbrown, his height is a major concern. Bigger wide outs will just demolish him if he doesn't have help. Rogers is adequate, but not great. Cully has his moments, but still inconsistent. Whitner is terrible and coverage, but good against the run and a leader on d. He can definitely be upgraded though.

I don't mind the bend but don't break so much any more, because I expect us to field a top 5 offense next year. The problem is, we were a break but don't bend team last year. We were absolutely dreadful in red zone defense last year. People scored at will once they got to the 20. That needs to be corrected.our strength was that we didn't let people into the red zone that often.

As great as our coaching staff is, they absolutely have to work on their red zone efficiency and play calling. It is one of the worst in the league (especially offensively - but the defense is not immune and could use a boost as evidenced by last years red zone efficiency numbers).
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big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 15566
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldman9er wrote:
miner49er wrote:
I don't like the fact that Goldson is on the market. We should have dealt with this. The back end is the achilles heel and we can't afford a downgrade.


Don't sweat it for a second. People were panicking about Aubrayo Franklin departing... talk about d'oh! .


But Franklin wasn't close to an all pro. And we had a starter at DE who we planned to move over. Behind Goldson we've got guys who haven't played more than a handful of plays at S between them in their entire careers.

Mind you I'm OK with Goldson going at the price he's asking, but the Franklin departure was similar, but not nearly the same.
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oldman9er


Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 42361
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
oldman9er wrote:
miner49er wrote:
I don't like the fact that Goldson is on the market. We should have dealt with this. The back end is the achilles heel and we can't afford a downgrade.


Don't sweat it for a second. People were panicking about Aubrayo Franklin departing... talk about d'oh! .


But Franklin wasn't close to an all pro. And we had a starter at DE who we planned to move over. Behind Goldson we've got guys who haven't played more than a handful of plays at S between them in their entire careers.

Mind you I'm OK with Goldson going at the price he's asking, but the Franklin departure was similar, but not nearly the same.


Seriously? People were bowing to Aubrayo as if he was the bestest NT eva...

an exact match for the topic? Maybe not.. but let us not argue the small distinction just do it. Point was pretty clear.


Sixth Round

176.) Tennessee Titans -
177.) New England Patriots - < via TB >
178.) Oakland Raiders -
179.) Jacksonville Jaguars -
180.) Seattle Seahawks - < via NYJ >
181.) Washington Redskins -
182.) Chicago Bears -
183.) Tampa Bay Bucs - < via STL >
184.) Atlanta Falcons -
185.) New York Giants -
186.) New Orleans Saints -
187.) Buffalo Bills - < via MIN >
188.) Cleveland Browns -
189.) San Francisco 49ers -
190.) Miami Dolphins -
191.) San Diego Chargers -
192.) Kansas City Chiefs -
193.) Buffalo Bills -
194.) Houston Texans -
195.) Philadelphia Eagles -
196.) Cincinnati Bengals -
197.) Arizona Cardinals -
198.) Pittsburgh Steelers -
199.) Detroit Lions -
200.) Carolina Panthers -
201.) Cleveland Browns - < via BAL >
202.) Denver Broncos -
203.) Baltimore Ravens - < via DAL >
204.) Indianapolis Colts -
205.) Green Bay Packers -
206.) Indianapolis Colts - < via SEA >
207.) Tennessee Titans - < via NE >
208.) Denver Broncos - < c >
209.) Seattle Seahawks - < c >
210.) Green Bay Packers - < c >
211.) Houston Texans - < c >
212.) Green Bay Packers - < c >
213.) Carolina Panthers - < c >
214.) Seattle Seahawks - < c >
215.) St. Louis Rams - < c >
216.) Houston Texans - < c >
217.) Kansas City Chiefs - < c >


Seventh Round

218.) Tampa Bay Bucs -
219.) New England Patriots - < via TEN >
220.) Jacksonville Jaguars -
221.) Oakland Raiders -
222.) Washington Redskins -
223.) New York Jets -
224.) New York Jets - < via CHI >
225.) Atlanta Falcons -
226.) New York Giants -
227.) St. Louis Rams -
228.) Minnesota Vikings -
229.) Cleveland Browns -
230.) New Orleans Saints -
231.) Detroit Lions - < via BAL/MIA >
232.) Minnesota Vikings - < via MIA/SF >
233.) Kansas City Chiefs -
234.) Buffalo Bills -
235.) Houston Texans -
236.) Dallas Cowboys - < via SD >
237.) Philadelphia Eagles -
238.) Cincinnati Bengals -
239.) Pittsburgh Steelers -
240.) Detroit Lions -
241.) Arizona Cardinals -
242.) Carolina Panthers -
243.) Dallas Cowboys -
244.) Indianapolis Colts -
245.) New York Giants -
246.) San Francisco 49ers -
247.) Green Bay Packers -
248.) Seattle Seahawks -
215.) St. Louis Rams - < via NE/ATL >
250.) Denver Broncos - < c >
251.) Denver Broncos - < c >
252.) Pittsburgh Steelers - < c >
253.) New England Patriots - < c >
254.) San Francisco 49ers - < c >
255.) Indianapolis Colts - < c >
256.) Arizona Cardinals - < c >



The End. Very Happy
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48 1/2ers


Joined: 01 Aug 2011
Posts: 2570
Location: UCI
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldman9er wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
oldman9er wrote:
miner49er wrote:
I don't like the fact that Goldson is on the market. We should have dealt with this. The back end is the achilles heel and we can't afford a downgrade.


Don't sweat it for a second. People were panicking about Aubrayo Franklin departing... talk about d'oh! .


But Franklin wasn't close to an all pro. And we had a starter at DE who we planned to move over. Behind Goldson we've got guys who haven't played more than a handful of plays at S between them in their entire careers.

Mind you I'm OK with Goldson going at the price he's asking, but the Franklin departure was similar, but not nearly the same.


Seriously? People were bowing to Aubrayo as if he was the bestest NT eva...

an exact match for the topic? Maybe not.. but let us not argue the small distinction just do it. Point was pretty clear.

No I think Goldson is way more valuable than people thought Franklin was. The difference is we knew we had at least an average replacement in Soap. We have no idea how good Spillman/Robinson is. the potential dropoff is HUGE!

I want him back but I dont see it happening. I'm doing a mock with him signing elsewhere. Time to start facing reality we can't keep everyone on this team Crying or Very sad
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clarkfn2284


Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 3231
Location: Modesto,CA
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:

Pre Harbs he had 51 TD and 53INT with Harbs 30 and 10. A 3:1 ratio!!! thats dramatically different. Alex has never been close to that.




What do you make of his 8 to 1 TD/INT ratio in his last 6 games of the 2010 season? If THAT is not a trend PRECEDING Harbaugh's arrival, then nothing is. Alex dramatically changed his style of play himself, and that had nothing to do with Harbaugh. Look it up, it's pretty well documented. Statistical anylisis, interviews, there's a lot of them.

My whole point of this was about Goldson, really... in that he benefitted a lot from playing on our defense. I just think he gets too much credit, to be honest. I just can't understand how a guy on a depleted offense can get less credit than a guy on a loaded defense. And can you seriously say that "Goldson has changed the mindset that offenses have had to take against the Niners when they play"?! Seriously? If one player has to be singled out for changing the way teams play us, it has to be Aldon Smith. Our defense was merely top 15 with most of these guys. But when Aldon came in, the pressure he brought off the edge totally changed the dynamic of our defense, increasing the impact other players had on the game. He almost single-handedly made our secondary better. Those 33 sacks, and several QB hits and hurries, are all plays that an opposing QB could have made something out of. It's incredible production from one guy that made all the other guys around him look better. And I don't even have to mention the other guys stepping up, like Bowman, Rogers, Culliver, Whitner, all taking major step forwards in their career, from being college players, or back-ups, or disappointments on other teams. Meanwhile, Goldson is probably the player who has shown the least progression. Our pass D improved from 24th to 16th to 4th... not because of Goldson specifically. He was a good player who remained a good player. I just don't see how he can seriously state a case for being paid 8 millions a year. I want to be able to pay Aldon when his turn comes. You can't do that if you're overpaying other players. Look at the priorities of this defense, what makes it works: Aldon, Justin, Pat, Navorro... at best, and I don't believe he is, Dashon would be the fifth best player on that defense. You can't survive in this league if you're paying your fifth best player 8 millions a year.


I agree that there is no case for Goldson wanting 8 mil per. If it will take that then he has to go. I dont see him getting that on the market either so maybe there is still a chance to bring him back at what they are willing to offer him. I would at the least like to see them put a current offer out there and if he decides to walk then its whatever, but i would hope that the market determines he isnt an 8 mil guy and he comes back at a truer price with the opportunity to play on a top defense and be a contender for years to come.

As for Alex we just flat out disagree, but thats fine. He was more than serviceable for this team the last couple of seasons and I think he changed minds of many people around the league.
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rice wasn't close to do as good as his stats would lead one to assume


okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears.
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49ersfan2152


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People are over reacting over our secondary a little. Ya we let up some big plays in the playoffs but our secondary was very good all year. We deff had some issues in the playoffs an were exploited a little bit but with Gholdson back this unit is fine with exception of needing another solid CB. With out Dashon we find our selfs with a huge whole because he is arguably our best player in the secondary an finding some one to replace him wont be easy. Even if we draft a FS to do so chances are he wont play at a high anuff level in year 1, not like a CB who are usually more capable of playing at a higher level early. I think Rogers gets released if Gholdson is back an or if they add a CB this offseason/draft.

We need Gholdson back badly having him gives us a great potential secondary again an Whitner looks like he is mybe entering a down side in his career he just doesnt look good when he drops back in coverage. So we could be in need of two S if Dashon walks something that will hard to replace.

Gholdson is deserving of 7-8 mill contract with out a dought he holds more value to us then he would most other teams but he surely has been a top 3-5 FS the last couple years. Ill be very dissapointed if we dont make a strong offer. I dont want to overpay for him eathier but if you are offering 7 an he wants 8 whats the 1 mill difference is to little to lose such a big piece.
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clarkfn2284


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:


As for the trend, i'm speaking about how from 05-09 he had 37TD and 43INT a rating no higher than 81.5 and a comp. percentage no higher than 60.5, )


Well thanks for clarifying what you were talking about. But that doesn't constiture a "trend" to me. He had a horrible rookie year. So frikken what? He shouldn't have been playing that early he clearly wasn't ready. Then he had a vast improvement in his second year. So there's a trend. That was 2005 and 2006. He ruined his shoulder very early in 2007, sat out all of 2008 and was just getting back into shape in 2009 after not playing for most of two seasons. You can go ahead and be disppointed in his lack of production from 2007 to 2009, but there no way there's any "trend" there. What there was was two injury years and one recovery year.

And nice of you to throw in his 1 TD, 11 Int rookie year into a 5 season total to try to make a point. Now if you're willing to give up your prejudices and really look at "trends" his TD/Int ratio got better every single season except for season 3 where he only played a few games and most of those were after he could barely lift his arm over his head. Oh if you're still open to looking at trends and since you're the one that brought up QBR you might note that his QBR has gotten better every single year in the league except for that injury year. Now that IS a trend.

So if there is a trend that we can see, accounting for the injury to his throwing shoulder, it's that he has gotten consistently better every year. NO surprise then that his best years happen to be his most recent seasons.


http://www.nfl.com/player/alexsmith/2506340/profile

Your kidding me right? You speak of my prejudices and you want to throw out every year of mediocre play for any reason you can come up with? He was a rookie and so we should omit that year.(although RGIII and Luck had good rookie years, but lets just ignore that when we look back at guys like that.) He was hurt and then sat out the next year so lets give another year to get into shape? Isnt that what the offseason is for? To stay sharp? He is a professional. His job is to produce when called upon. He didnt do that at a sustained level that would be considered anything other than mediocre until the end of 2010. He then sustained it in 2011 and again in 2012.

As for his TD to INT ratio:

'05(9 games)- (1td/11int) .090 td/int ratio
'06- (16td/16int) 1td/int ratio (much better improvement)
'07(7 games)-(2td/4int) 0.5 td/int ratio not an improvemen, but he did only play 7 games. You still have to factor it in.
'08- 0 games played
'09(11 games played)- (18td/12 int) 1.5 td/int ratio (best yet)(but using your logic we have to ignore this year right? I mean he was 2 years removed from the shoulder injury. See how that works both ways?
'10(11 games played)- (14td/10int) 1.4 td/int ratio (that would be a regression from the previous year. Not by much though.)
'11- (17td/5int) 3.4 td/int ratio (more than double his best performance in this catergory to date.)
'12(10 games) - (13td/5int) 2.6 TD/Int ratio

When I look at this I see a sustained level of success that would be considered good or above mediocre from '11 and '12. And really if you lump in the end of '10 too.

Before any of that there was minimal success let alone sustained levels of what one would say was good.

His career average is 1.28. Translate that into a full season at his career trends and he would throw for 20td and 16int. That is the very definition of mediocre. If you think that is good QB play then we can no longer discuss this because we have totally different levels of expectations for a QB in the NFL.

If you ask me you have the biased opinion(not going to use prejudices because its just not that serious) as you seem to be making up the rules as you go. Picking and choosing what years to use and leave out and for what reasons you can attribute Alex's mediocre seasons.

The debate began about Harbaughs impact on Alex's play. Not here is why I hate Alex, because I dont hate Alex, I thought he was more than serviceable, but if you cant see that then it is what it is. You keep looking for reasons to justify your stance, I'm not telling you that you need to.

Have a good day.
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NextBigThing wrote:
rice wasn't close to do as good as his stats would lead one to assume


okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears.
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Gore Whore 21


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clarkfn2284 wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:


As for the trend, i'm speaking about how from 05-09 he had 37TD and 43INT a rating no higher than 81.5 and a comp. percentage no higher than 60.5, )


Well thanks for clarifying what you were talking about. But that doesn't constiture a "trend" to me. He had a horrible rookie year. So frikken what? He shouldn't have been playing that early he clearly wasn't ready. Then he had a vast improvement in his second year. So there's a trend. That was 2005 and 2006. He ruined his shoulder very early in 2007, sat out all of 2008 and was just getting back into shape in 2009 after not playing for most of two seasons. You can go ahead and be disppointed in his lack of production from 2007 to 2009, but there no way there's any "trend" there. What there was was two injury years and one recovery year.

And nice of you to throw in his 1 TD, 11 Int rookie year into a 5 season total to try to make a point. Now if you're willing to give up your prejudices and really look at "trends" his TD/Int ratio got better every single season except for season 3 where he only played a few games and most of those were after he could barely lift his arm over his head. Oh if you're still open to looking at trends and since you're the one that brought up QBR you might note that his QBR has gotten better every single year in the league except for that injury year. Now that IS a trend.

So if there is a trend that we can see, accounting for the injury to his throwing shoulder, it's that he has gotten consistently better every year. NO surprise then that his best years happen to be his most recent seasons.


http://www.nfl.com/player/alexsmith/2506340/profile

Your kidding me right? You speak of my prejudices and you want to throw out every year of mediocre play for any reason you can come up with? He was a rookie and so we should omit that year.(although RGIII and Luck had good rookie years, but lets just ignore that when we look back at guys like that.) He was hurt and then sat out the next year so lets give another year to get into shape? Isnt that what the offseason is for? To stay sharp? He is a professional. His job is to produce when called upon. He didnt do that at a sustained level that would be considered anything other than mediocre until the end of 2010. He then sustained it in 2011 and again in 2012.

As for his TD to INT ratio:

'05(9 games)- (1td/11int) .090 td/int ratio
'06- (16td/16int) 1td/int ratio (much better improvement)
'07(7 games)-(2td/4int) 0.5 td/int ratio not an improvemen, but he did only play 7 games. You still have to factor it in.
'08- 0 games played
'09(11 games played)- (18td/12 int) 1.5 td/int ratio (best yet)(but using your logic we have to ignore this year right? I mean he was 2 years removed from the shoulder injury. See how that works both ways?
'10(11 games played)- (14td/10int) 1.4 td/int ratio (that would be a regression from the previous year. Not by much though.)
'11- (17td/5int) 3.4 td/int ratio (more than double his best performance in this catergory to date.)
'12(10 games) - (13td/5int) 2.6 TD/Int ratio

When I look at this I see a sustained level of success that would be considered good or above mediocre from '11 and '12. And really if you lump in the end of '10 too.

Before any of that there was minimal success let alone sustained levels of what one would say was good.

His career average is 1.28. Translate that into a full season at his career trends and he would throw for 20td and 16int. That is the very definition of mediocre. If you think that is good QB play then we can no longer discuss this because we have totally different levels of expectations for a QB in the NFL.

If you ask me you have the biased opinion(not going to use prejudices because its just not that serious) as you seem to be making up the rules as you go. Picking and choosing what years to use and leave out and for what reasons you can attribute Alex's mediocre seasons.

The debate began about Harbaughs impact on Alex's play. Not here is why I hate Alex, because I dont hate Alex, I thought he was more than serviceable, but if you cant see that then it is what it is. You keep looking for reasons to justify your stance, I'm not telling you that you need to.

Have a good day.


I thought this was the Dashon Goldson thread? It's getting almost unbearable for me to open any of these threads, because when I do I have to wade through all this Alex Smith Bull [inappropriate/removed]. He's not even on our team people. LET IT GO.
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oldman9er


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gore Whore 21 wrote:

I thought this was the Dashon Goldson thread? It's getting almost unbearable for me to open any of these threads, because when I do I have to wade through all this Alex Smith Bull [inappropriate/removed]. He's not even on our team people. LET IT GO.


THIS

Dear Jeebus, talk about drama.
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NcFinest9erFan


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will post the quote later but niner nation retweeted that the redskins took a look at dashon but said no bc he wants to be the highest paid safety.
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DirtyJersey9er


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NcFinest9erFan wrote:
I will post the quote later but niner nation retweeted that the redskins took a look at dashon but said no bc he wants to be the highest paid safety.


Yea I want to keep him but not at that much money.
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