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My first 2013 Mock offseason
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 46884
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEE RAWL wrote:
Were definitely gunna have to agree to disagree on this one because Eifert is very fluid and ive seen him many times run by corners with his underrated speed. Hes a more natural athlete than Fleener was last year.

Eifert>Ertz>Fleener


I never said Eifert wasn't. Eifert is an oversized WR...in all the good and bad ways. Great route runner, great fluidity, good speed and tracks the ball well. Strong hands and adjusts well to the ball. But, he's not a good blocker, not physical, very weak for a TE and is on the ground far too often as a blocker.

Ertz is also very fluid, impressive speed, excellent movement skills and a great frame. He is a good inline blocker with the ability to be great, just needs experience, improvement in technique and improved awareness. But shows the ability to outmuscle DEs and push around LBs. As a receiver, he has strong hands, runs well after the catch and is excellent at finding soft spots in coverage. However, he struggles tracking the ball times, needs to be more consistent high-pointing the ball and needs to improve at adjusting to passes. Route running also needs development as he gears down too much and takes unnecessary steps...but he torched a lot of teams on corner routes which he ran well this year. He also needs to use his strength and frame better at times to outmuscle opposing players.

Basically, I think Ertz has a lot more upside. Both are extremely athletically gifted as receivers. Eifert is more pro ready as a receiver and is the better receiver right now. However, he's a very 1-dimensional player. Ertz still has developing to do as a receiver but he has massive upside as an all around TE because he can block, possesses impressive strength/power and has all the athleticism to be a major weapon in the passing game.

Which is why I prefer Ertz. Size, athleticism, can do it all(split out wide, play in the slot, block inline), power and blocking ability.

Eifert has a lot of upside as a flex TE but I'd much prefer a guy who can do it all.
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DerekBrink


Joined: 16 Nov 2012
Posts: 378
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEE RAWL wrote:
DerekBrink wrote:
I don't want a DT either. I like Richardson but we just have too many needs elsewhere.

As for Ertz and Eifert, I prefer Eifert. ERtz is the better speed/power guy but I like Eifert hands, ball skills and fluidity more.


Ertz is a speed/power guy? I dont know what the heck that means but I too would prefer Eifert, would be a tremendous safety blanket for Sam... All you have to do is put the ball in his general area and its a catch 9 times out of 10


I should of just typed a better athlete but I feel like Eifert is more fluid, catches the ball better and goes up and gets the ball better. All things that are also athletic abilities.
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DEE RAWL


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
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Location: Southern California
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok ok thats exactly how i feel. I would never expect Eifert to block playside. Ertz offers more in that area for sure but still isnt great. But i suppose blocking TEs arent in the discussion for a reason... Nobody considers them in first round. I love the idea that Williams has a 5-7th round grade because that is far better value than either Eifert or Ertz
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEE RAWL wrote:
Ok ok thats exactly how i feel. I would never expect Eifert to block playside. Ertz offers more in that area for sure but still isnt great. But i suppose blocking TEs arent in the discussion for a reason... Nobody considers them in first round. I love the idea that Williams has a 5-7th round grade because that is far better value than either Eifert or Ertz


Well then, why am I spending a 1st on a TE that can't block? If I'm spending a 1st on the TE, he better have the potential to be a great all around TE.
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The LBC wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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DEE RAWL


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
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Location: Southern California
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
DEE RAWL wrote:
Ok ok thats exactly how i feel. I would never expect Eifert to block playside. Ertz offers more in that area for sure but still isnt great. But i suppose blocking TEs arent in the discussion for a reason... Nobody considers them in first round. I love the idea that Williams has a 5-7th round grade because that is far better value than either Eifert or Ertz


Well then, why am I spending a 1st on a TE that can't block? If I'm spending a 1st on the TE, he better have the potential to be a great all around TE.


Because as a receiving threat he cannot be ignored and he can block better than a WR. Ertz in the 2nd would be great though.
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEE RAWL wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
DEE RAWL wrote:
Ok ok thats exactly how i feel. I would never expect Eifert to block playside. Ertz offers more in that area for sure but still isnt great. But i suppose blocking TEs arent in the discussion for a reason... Nobody considers them in first round. I love the idea that Williams has a 5-7th round grade because that is far better value than either Eifert or Ertz


Well then, why am I spending a 1st on a TE that can't block? If I'm spending a 1st on the TE, he better have the potential to be a great all around TE.


Because as a receiving threat he cannot be ignored and he can block better than a WR. Ertz in the 2nd would be great though.


Great for him. You can't ignore a WR either. But he's not doing his job as a TE otherwise and isn't worth a 1st rounder. Which is why Ertz is the only one worth it.

I'd rather just draft a WR than Eifert in the 1st. Hell, I can get plenty of value with receiving first TEs in Escobar and Reed later on in the draft.
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The LBC wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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DEE RAWL


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im right there with you, apart from the fact that I would rather have Eifert on my team as oppose to Ertz but thats just my opinion.

I would still rather have Allen, Williams or Hunter... Even Woods over Eifert so its all subjective.
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEE RAWL wrote:
Im right there with you, apart from the fact that I would rather have Eifert on my team as oppose to Ertz but thats just my opinion.

I would still rather have Allen, Williams or Hunter... Even Woods over Eifert so its all subjective.


I just don't get the Eifert love. I mean I understand to an extent. But I don't see someone can want Eifert while also acknowledging that the guy is a bad blocker.

You must have some real issues with Ertz...
_________________
The LBC wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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DEE RAWL


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 4521
Location: Southern California
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
DEE RAWL wrote:
Im right there with you, apart from the fact that I would rather have Eifert on my team as oppose to Ertz but thats just my opinion.

I would still rather have Allen, Williams or Hunter... Even Woods over Eifert so its all subjective.


I just don't get the Eifert love. I mean I understand to an extent. But I don't see someone can want Eifert while also acknowledging that the guy is a bad blocker.

You must have some real issues with Ertz...


I dont have big issues with him its just that they are similar players being primarily receiving threats who are average blockers and if im taking that kind of TE then I want who is best at it... That IMO is Eifert. I feel that if I am an OC that i can have a better offense with Eifert as oppose to Ertz.
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 46884
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEE RAWL wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
DEE RAWL wrote:
Im right there with you, apart from the fact that I would rather have Eifert on my team as oppose to Ertz but thats just my opinion.

I would still rather have Allen, Williams or Hunter... Even Woods over Eifert so its all subjective.


I just don't get the Eifert love. I mean I understand to an extent. But I don't see someone can want Eifert while also acknowledging that the guy is a bad blocker.

You must have some real issues with Ertz...


I dont have big issues with him its just that they are similar players being primarily receiving threats who are average blockers and if im taking that kind of TE then I want who is best at it... That IMO is Eifert. I feel that if I am an OC that i can have a better offense with Eifert as oppose to Ertz.


That's not even close to true. They're not similar players. They're no more similar than Gronk and Graham are similar.

Calling Ertz an average blocker is selling him short while calling Eifert an average blocker is wayyyyyy overstating it.

Eifert is a bad blocker. He is on the ground way too often, gets outmuscled far too easily and rarely gets push. There's really no pop or physicality to his game as a blocker. Ertz is a good blocker with the potential to be great. He can seal and wash his man out in the run game. He needs to shore up his technique and work on holding his blocks better though.

It's just not a contest. I cannot explain the shock I had the first time I evaluated Eifert at just how weak he is for a guy his size.

Their blocking ability isn't remotely comparable.

I'm serious, I don't know how you can honestly watch both of them and tell me that they're anywhere near equal as blockers...and you certainly made it seem that way in your post.
_________________
The LBC wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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DEE RAWL


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 4521
Location: Southern California
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am starting to believe our measurement units are just different because we had this same debate about Woods & Austin. I am not impressed with either Eifert or Ertz's blocking. I watched him struggle to block Orengon's DL and LBs who are nothing special apart from Jordan which i dont think he ever really had to block him. I think anybody drafting them should not expect either of them to contribute much as a blocker or else they will be disappointed.
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