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Sam Shields & the Packers future @ CB
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driftwood


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 6518
Location: Milwaukee
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:15 am    Post subject: Sam Shields & the Packers future @ CB Reply with quote

OK, so I admit i wasn't the highest on Sam going into this year (after seeing House pre shoulder injury & drafting Casey) I figured Sam would have a hard time seeing the field unless in dime package.

but after seeing how hes progressed this year (especially after refs seemed to pick on him 3 quarters of the season)... i think its going to be hard not to include him into the future of our DB's

his pure coverage skills are becoming legit & getting better + his tackling has really improved...

so my question is, where do some of you guys see this team going with its CB's & Sam specifically?

do the Pack maybe consider moving someone like House into a future safety role opposite Burnett? at this point you cant take Sam or Casey off the field, but you do have something with House as well & Tramon will be around for a while still

its a good problem to have I suppose but we are all the sudden stacked at CB for the foreseeable future & have 4 guys that can start if needed.
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MNPackfan32


Joined: 22 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think everybody stays put at CB. I think after Tramon has his contract run out, they will probably fill that void with House. I think House and Shields are the future on the outside and obviously Hayward is the man in the slot more often than not. I have always been a big Sam Shields fan, that boy has some crazy good ball skill anf is a real good M2M cover corner. I really like our current group of corners.
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HyponGrey


Joined: 23 Jun 2012
Posts: 3736
Location: Down the road from NFL Films
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:28 am    Post subject: Re: Sam Shields & the Packers future @ CB Reply with quote

driftwood wrote:
OK, so I admit i wasn't the highest on Sam going into this year (after seeing House pre shoulder injury & drafting Casey) I figured Sam would have a hard time seeing the field unless in dime package.

but after seeing how hes progressed this year (especially after refs seemed to pick on him 3 quarters of the season)... i think its going to be hard not to include him into the future of our DB's

his pure coverage skills are becoming legit & getting better + his tackling has really improved...

so my question is, where do some of you guys see this team going with its CB's & Sam specifically?

do the Pack maybe consider moving someone like House into a future safety role opposite Burnett? at this point you cant take Sam or Casey off the field, but you do have something with House as well & Tramon will be around for a while still

its a good problem to have I suppose but we are all the sudden stacked at CB for the foreseeable future & have 4 guys that can start if needed.
I think depth is a very good thing, House will stay on Dime, and Shields will be with us for a long time. I know some here hold to the idea you can never have enough good CB/DB and thus keep mocking them to us, not because we need them (we obviously don't) but because its a position this team places a premium on.

You don't HAVE to do anything with anybody. That's the flaw in your thinking. By your logic we would have moved Hayward long ago.

As for your concern at Safety, I'm sure that situation will eventually be addressed one way or another. Matter of fact, I'm positive the brass already has a plan.
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svp


Joined: 11 Sep 2011
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Location: I took a football shaped pill and felt better.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tramon is a good player. He goes agains Megazoid and Brandon Marshall
and the other top WR opponents. He covers them. He can't tackle Adrian Petersen. So what? most CBs can't effectively do it either.


He made an emotional play that ended in a flag that gave the game away.
Inexcusable but not enough to bench him.
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IrishGreen


Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

House would probably be a good player at safety, but I think he stays at corner.
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PacAttack04


Joined: 26 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't mind looking at a bigger corner to draft his year pretty early. Someone like a Talib or a Nnamdi type guy, someone with great length and can press from time to time, defend the run decently well. The two guys that would fit are Rhodes and Millner, a big guy that can play the outside well, but obviously they will go pretty high. But we seem to have a lot of smaller and quicker CBs, no one who is a big physical guy. Really, a better Bush. Bring in some competition for House and Shields on the outside, always have a young guy to push these young players to get better if they wanna play
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nfldraftguru1


Joined: 07 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PacAttack04 wrote:
I wouldn't mind looking at a bigger corner to draft his year pretty early. Someone like a Talib or a Nnamdi type guy, someone with great length and can press from time to time, defend the run decently well. The two guys that would fit are Rhodes and Millner, a big guy that can play the outside well, but obviously they will go pretty high. But we seem to have a lot of smaller and quicker CBs, no one who is a big physical guy. Really, a better Bush. Bring in some competition for House and Shields on the outside, always have a young guy to push these young players to get better if they wanna play


We actually draft all at least average sized CBs.
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PacAttack04


Joined: 26 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nfldraftguru1 wrote:
PacAttack04 wrote:
I wouldn't mind looking at a bigger corner to draft his year pretty early. Someone like a Talib or a Nnamdi type guy, someone with great length and can press from time to time, defend the run decently well. The two guys that would fit are Rhodes and Millner, a big guy that can play the outside well, but obviously they will go pretty high. But we seem to have a lot of smaller and quicker CBs, no one who is a big physical guy. Really, a better Bush. Bring in some competition for House and Shields on the outside, always have a young guy to push these young players to get better if they wanna play


We actually draft all at least average sized CBs.


Average sized, yes. But I'm thinking more of a big CB. Cromartie, Peterson, Gamble. Guys that aren't as fast as our outside CB but can defend and press against the run better than a smaller CB. Maybe give us a different dimension in terms of what type of CB we can throw against receivers
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nfldraftguru1


Joined: 07 Feb 2009
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Location: Whitewater, WI
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PacAttack04 wrote:
nfldraftguru1 wrote:
PacAttack04 wrote:
I wouldn't mind looking at a bigger corner to draft his year pretty early. Someone like a Talib or a Nnamdi type guy, someone with great length and can press from time to time, defend the run decently well. The two guys that would fit are Rhodes and Millner, a big guy that can play the outside well, but obviously they will go pretty high. But we seem to have a lot of smaller and quicker CBs, no one who is a big physical guy. Really, a better Bush. Bring in some competition for House and Shields on the outside, always have a young guy to push these young players to get better if they wanna play


We actually draft all at least average sized CBs.


Average sized, yes. But I'm thinking more of a big CB. Cromartie, Peterson, Gamble. Guys that aren't as fast as our outside CB but can defend and press against the run better than a smaller CB. Maybe give us a different dimension in terms of what type of CB we can throw against receivers


I think we may use that guy as a rover S similar to Woodson.
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MrBobGray


Joined: 08 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PacAttack04 wrote:
nfldraftguru1 wrote:
PacAttack04 wrote:
I wouldn't mind looking at a bigger corner to draft his year pretty early. Someone like a Talib or a Nnamdi type guy, someone with great length and can press from time to time, defend the run decently well. The two guys that would fit are Rhodes and Millner, a big guy that can play the outside well, but obviously they will go pretty high. But we seem to have a lot of smaller and quicker CBs, no one who is a big physical guy. Really, a better Bush. Bring in some competition for House and Shields on the outside, always have a young guy to push these young players to get better if they wanna play


We actually draft all at least average sized CBs.


Average sized, yes. But I'm thinking more of a big CB. Cromartie, Peterson, Gamble. Guys that aren't as fast as our outside CB but can defend and press against the run better than a smaller CB. Maybe give us a different dimension in terms of what type of CB we can throw against receivers


The problem is having a bunch of different types of players at the same position makes scheming difficult. In that case, you'd have to set the position for everybody and your plays would be limited by what each player could do. The main value of Dom's scheme is that it's unpredictable, and you lose a bit of that each time you lock a player into a specific position. If you draft a big corner that excels in man but isn't as good in zone, then you have to have him in man/press every time. Right now, we have corners that can do a lot of little things well, which brings more value imo than having a specialist.
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HyponGrey


Joined: 23 Jun 2012
Posts: 3736
Location: Down the road from NFL Films
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PacAttack04 wrote:
I wouldn't mind looking at a bigger corner to draft his year pretty early. Someone like a Talib or a Nnamdi type guy, someone with great length and can press from time to time, defend the run decently well. The two guys that would fit are Rhodes and Millner, a big guy that can play the outside well, but obviously they will go pretty high. But we seem to have a lot of smaller and quicker CBs, no one who is a big physical guy. Really, a better Bush. Bring in some competition for House and Shields on the outside, always have a young guy to push these young players to get better if they wanna play
I'll take 6' 4.5 over 6'4 4.55 any day. Tall guys like that usually wind up toasty.
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Blink


Joined: 05 Aug 2011
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Location: Denver, CO
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tramon and Shields for the immediate future, Casey in the slot. I wouldn't be surprised to see Casey and Sam the starters, with House coming in and moving Casey to the slot a la Woodson in 3 WR sets.

It's a very exciting group, you cant get much different in terms of skill sets as Shields and Hayward. Raw blazing fast guy vs a very technical and savvy guy. Both have a whole lot of potential, just need to keep the group together as much as possible. Secondary, like OL, tends to be very dependent on chemistry.
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mikemike778


Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 252
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PacAttack04 wrote:
I wouldn't mind looking at a bigger corner to draft his year pretty early. Someone like a Talib or a Nnamdi type guy, someone with great length and can press from time to time, defend the run decently well. The two guys that would fit are Rhodes and Millner, a big guy that can play the outside well, but obviously they will go pretty high. But we seem to have a lot of smaller and quicker CBs, no one who is a big physical guy. Really, a better Bush. Bring in some competition for House and Shields on the outside, always have a young guy to push these young players to get better if they wanna play


CB is one of our strongest positions both short-term and long-term and we have plenty of needs elsewhere.

Sure you don't know what is going to happen so you go BPA to an extent and if someone falls a lot then you take him. Certainly wouldn't be looking to target taking a CB early though. Would be pretty far down the list of priorities.
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rbens06


Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 794
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Sam Shields & the Packers future @ CB Reply with quote

driftwood wrote:
OK, so I admit i wasn't the highest on Sam going into this year (after seeing House pre shoulder injury & drafting Casey) I figured Sam would have a hard time seeing the field unless in dime package.

but after seeing how hes progressed this year (especially after refs seemed to pick on him 3 quarters of the season)... i think its going to be hard not to include him into the future of our DB's

his pure coverage skills are becoming legit & getting better + his tackling has really improved...

so my question is, where do some of you guys see this team going with its CB's & Sam specifically?

do the Pack maybe consider moving someone like House into a future safety role opposite Burnett? at this point you cant take Sam or Casey off the field, but you do have something with House as well & Tramon will be around for a while still

its a good problem to have I suppose but we are all the sudden stacked at CB for the foreseeable future & have 4 guys that can start if needed.


We can keep both of those guys on the field consistently by playing our nickel package. Some teams we won't play as much nickel because we want/need the extra defensive lineman, but we play enough nickel that getting them both on the field is not as much of a concern.

Also, something to keep in mind is Shields contract moving forward. I assume that he will get the first round tender, just under $3 million, this offseason. However, the year following he would be unrestricted and may want to test the market for big money. If we can get a Lang/Jordy in season deal done with him that would be great, but him or Williams could be a guy we say goodbye to in order to divert those dollars to keep Rodgers, Raji, and Matthews. Fortunately Shields has the restricted tender ability, so we have time to either work out a deal with him or decided what we do moving forward.
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SDN40


Joined: 13 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wouldn't House have to stay healthy long enough at corner in order to be even considered at safety ? He will take even more punishment there.
That being said, you dont usually move a guy that has the skills to play corner - to safety.
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