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Mercury22
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 12329
Location: the 50 yard line
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 Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| ViolentMonk71 wrote: | | Mercury22 wrote: | | cddolphin wrote: | | Mercury22 wrote: | | Clutch wrote: |
Low end #2, but a good #3 that would create nice mismatches. I have always said, depending on the system, Hartline would be great to have as a #3 or #4 WR because he would be a matchup nightmare and the Fins could go 4 wide alot.
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I agree. I'd be happy to retain him for #3 WR money and I'd be thrilled if he filled that roll. However, I believe he will seek low end #1 money and from what I can tell, the fans of this forum would be happy to pay him that kind of money. That terrifies me. |
If you think Hartline will get low-end #1 money from the Dolphins, when the FA WRs include Jennings, Wallace, Bowe, AND we have I believe 5 picks in the first 3 rounds to potentially pick up starting WRs... |
I don't believe they will, I am simply suggesting that plenty of our posters view Hartline of worthy of money in the 3-4 million per year range. Which is WAY more than I believe he is worth. |
Here is the thing I don't want to see happen....Let Hatline walk then sign Jennings to 5 + million a year when there is very little difference between them....about the same size Jennings is 4 hundredths of a second faster in the 40. While Hartline may not be worth over 3 million a year....that would be a better value then Jennings at over 5 million a year. |
Why pay for a number 1 WR when "this offense does'nt need a #1".
Hartline is no better than say, Brandon Stokley. I don't know what Stokley is worth, but if we want to pay Hartline in the Stokley range, I'd be okay with that. He can't hold Greg Jennings socks. And i don't want Greg Jennings either.
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ViolentMonk71
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 2521
Location: Don Shula's front porch
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Mercury22 wrote: | | ViolentMonk71 wrote: | | Mercury22 wrote: | | cddolphin wrote: | | Mercury22 wrote: | | Clutch wrote: |
Low end #2, but a good #3 that would create nice mismatches. I have always said, depending on the system, Hartline would be great to have as a #3 or #4 WR because he would be a matchup nightmare and the Fins could go 4 wide alot.
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I agree. I'd be happy to retain him for #3 WR money and I'd be thrilled if he filled that roll. However, I believe he will seek low end #1 money and from what I can tell, the fans of this forum would be happy to pay him that kind of money. That terrifies me. |
If you think Hartline will get low-end #1 money from the Dolphins, when the FA WRs include Jennings, Wallace, Bowe, AND we have I believe 5 picks in the first 3 rounds to potentially pick up starting WRs... |
I don't believe they will, I am simply suggesting that plenty of our posters view Hartline of worthy of money in the 3-4 million per year range. Which is WAY more than I believe he is worth. |
Here is the thing I don't want to see happen....Let Hatline walk then sign Jennings to 5 + million a year when there is very little difference between them....about the same size Jennings is 4 hundredths of a second faster in the 40. While Hartline may not be worth over 3 million a year....that would be a better value then Jennings at over 5 million a year. |
Why pay for a number 1 WR when "this offense does'nt need a #1".
Hartline is no better than say, Brandon Stokley. I don't know what Stokley is worth, but if we want to pay Hartline in the Stokley range, I'd be okay with that. He can't hold Greg Jennings socks. And i don't want Greg Jennings either. |
Stokely made about 1 million this year, but at one time was making a little over 2 million a year.
As far as Hartline....I feel he is a very good receiver and would hate to see him go. while he's not dynamic (not every player is going to be) you need dependable guys who start and make catches (3 drops all season, one of the lowest of starting receivers). Is he worth "#1" money, no, but I have no problem with him getting a 4 year 8-9 million dollar contract, but I think someone will easily offer him more.
If you look at a player like Robert Meachem (who never had more then 750 yards in a season) he received a 4 year 25+ million dollar contract from SD....granted he was severely overpaid, but don't be surprised if someone offers Hartline at least 3 a year if not more.
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SUG
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: Alameda, Ca
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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Well clearly this has turned more into a Hartline thread.
Violent Monk is spot on, Id gladly let Smith walk before I let Hartline go to to NE for less money & believe me he is tailor made for that Offense !
We need to keep Hartline simply because the previous regime left us thin at WR.
Personally Id much rather address the TE position with a STUD pass catcher before WR. And that is yet anther way of adding value to Hartline.
sug
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Mercury22
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 12329
Location: the 50 yard line
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| SUG wrote: | Well clearly this has turned more into a Hartline thread.
Violent Monk is spot on, Id gladly let Smith walk before I let Hartline go to to NE for less money & believe me he is tailor made for that Offense !
We need to keep Hartline simply because the previous regime left us thin at WR.
Personally Id much rather address the TE position with a STUD pass catcher before WR. And that is yet anther way of adding value to Hartline.
sug |
I'll take Sean Smith on IR over Hartline. Okay, maybe I went to far.
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"22 players are involved in every football play. To value precisely the activity of one of them, it is first necessary to account for the actions of the other 21" |
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ViolentMonk71
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 2521
Location: Don Shula's front porch
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Mercury22 wrote: | | SUG wrote: | Well clearly this has turned more into a Hartline thread.
Violent Monk is spot on, Id gladly let Smith walk before I let Hartline go to to NE for less money & believe me he is tailor made for that Offense !
We need to keep Hartline simply because the previous regime left us thin at WR.
Personally Id much rather address the TE position with a STUD pass catcher before WR. And that is yet anther way of adding value to Hartline.
sug |
I'll take Sean Smith on IR over Hartline. Okay, maybe I went to far. |
We all have our opinions on players and different ways of evaluating them though you have one complaint against Hartline (doesn't break tackles) and for some reason he's worthless? His Racks yards were about 260 on the season....that's only 100 behind Marshall who had almost 50 more catches. You know we just value him differently...not wrong just different...
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Mercury22
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 12329
Location: the 50 yard line
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| ViolentMonk71 wrote: | | Mercury22 wrote: | | SUG wrote: | Well clearly this has turned more into a Hartline thread.
Violent Monk is spot on, Id gladly let Smith walk before I let Hartline go to to NE for less money & believe me he is tailor made for that Offense !
We need to keep Hartline simply because the previous regime left us thin at WR.
Personally Id much rather address the TE position with a STUD pass catcher before WR. And that is yet anther way of adding value to Hartline.
sug |
I'll take Sean Smith on IR over Hartline. Okay, maybe I went to far. |
We all have our opinions on players and different ways of evaluating them though you have one complaint against Hartline (doesn't break tackles) and for some reason he's worthless? His Racks yards were about 260 on the season....that's only 100 behind Marshall who had almost 50 more catches. You know we just value him differently...not wrong just different... |
Actually, my complaint is a bit broader than that, I said Hartline never makes plays. Suggesting he doesn't tackles is only part of it, he also never scores. Marshall does that plenty. There are only about 4-5 positions that can be considered as playmakers. If one of those is occupied by someone who NEVER makes plays, then we have a deficiency. Unfortuantely all but one of those positions on our team are occupied by players who don't make plays.
Its not a hole in his game, its a problem for the entire team when the top WR on our team scores only 1 TD all season long.
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ViolentMonk71
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 2521
Location: Don Shula's front porch
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Mercury22 wrote: | | ViolentMonk71 wrote: | | Mercury22 wrote: | | SUG wrote: | Well clearly this has turned more into a Hartline thread.
Violent Monk is spot on, Id gladly let Smith walk before I let Hartline go to to NE for less money & believe me he is tailor made for that Offense !
We need to keep Hartline simply because the previous regime left us thin at WR.
Personally Id much rather address the TE position with a STUD pass catcher before WR. And that is yet anther way of adding value to Hartline.
sug |
I'll take Sean Smith on IR over Hartline. Okay, maybe I went to far. |
We all have our opinions on players and different ways of evaluating them though you have one complaint against Hartline (doesn't break tackles) and for some reason he's worthless? His Racks yards were about 260 on the season....that's only 100 behind Marshall who had almost 50 more catches. You know we just value him differently...not wrong just different... |
Actually, my complaint is a bit broader than that, I said Hartline never makes plays. Suggesting he doesn't tackles is only part of it, he also never scores. Marshall does that plenty. There are only about 4-5 positions that can be considered as playmakers. If one of those is occupied by someone who NEVER makes plays, then we have a deficiency. Unfortuantely all but one of those positions on our team are occupied by players who don't make plays.
Its not a hole in his game, its a problem for the entire team when the top WR on our team scores only 1 TD all season long. |
I won't argue that he shouldn't be the teams top receiver, but he does pick up first downs (48 out of 75 receptions) and I would say that is making plays...
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SUG
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: Alameda, Ca
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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Man, Hartline isn't nearly what ailes the WR core... But when you have hot garbage like the R Wallaces & the Marlon Moores & that 3rd rnd pk WR/PR Sporano stuck us with & then add to that the fact Sporano/ireland Philbin only stocked 2 " inline" TEs that are slow as molasses ...
You have set Hartline (or any other #2 WR) up to fail.
I would cut every other WR but Bess & Hartline.
I firmly believe the is worth paying a fair ammount & building around.
Dudes done a good job against opposing teams #1 CB talent.
Sug
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freak_of_nature
Joined: 15 Oct 2012
Posts: 165
Location: ATL
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| SUG wrote: |
I would cut every other WR but Bess & Hartline.
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I think Matthews is developing into a good #5. No need to spend more resources on a #5, a guy who won't see the field much. |
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DOLFAN016
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 640
Location: Central Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| freak_of_nature wrote: | | SUG wrote: |
I would cut every other WR but Bess & Hartline.
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I think Matthews is developing into a good #5. No need to spend more resources on a #5, a guy who won't see the field much. |
I second that motion. Toward the end of the year he was getting some solid PT and starting to contribute. He's a guy who will only get better with more experience.
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fishfan4life
Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1127
Location: santa rosa california
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| I feel we are kind of in a pickle with Sean Smith he is a starting CB in this league for sure and because of our lack of depth and Marshall situation it puts us in a bind. As much as I would like a ball hawking FS I almost rather draft a corner like jordan poyer in round 2 great ball skills. I am sick to death of jimmy wilson and nolan carrol. Jimmy is a good guy to have cause he can backup at corner and safety but he is on the field way to much for me |
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Judson49
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 528
Location: London
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:29 am Post subject: |
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[/quote]
I'll take Sean Smith on IR over Hartline. Okay, maybe I went to far.[/quote]
I don't think you went too far at all. Interestingly enough, I'd actually take Hartline's corpse over Sean Smith. |
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carlos2104
Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 1637
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:29 am Post subject: |
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I don't think we should get rid of Sean Smith. He might come with a high price tag, but we need CB's. Draft someone who can push him for the number 1 job.I don't want some 2nd round cb and a second tier FA being our starters. How about Sean smith and a 2nd round CB? Don't care what you guys say, I miss Vontae.
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Blagasse67
Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 11183
Location: Delaware
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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Not getting the hate Hartline still receives. I would like to see Hartline back. I don't think he is our answer at WR but i think he should be resigned before Sean Smith and just about half of our players leaving. Only player i prioritze over him is Bush, only because of Bush's big play ability.
Harltline helps us more then Smith does. Hartline is a guy that makes tough catches and if you add a player like Jennings and another WR, he can be very valuable
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fishfan4life
Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1127
Location: santa rosa california
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| I have been hearing Smith wants jason MCcourty money 6 years 40 mil |
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