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Arizona Cardinals Draft - Quarterbacks
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AZPSquared


Joined: 17 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dysert or Jones wouldn't be ready to start the season but with some fine tuning, they could be ready to go mid season. Let me preface, i would have Kolb and Hoyer ahead of one of them. I think almost every QB in this draft needs development. I think Barkley and Wilson are the ones you could throw directly into the fire, maybe Geno and Nassib too.

-Most of you are against even taking Barkley in the 2nd or late 1st (trade up from 2nd).

Geno will go ahead of us (most likely)

-Nassib might even go #8 to Buffalo (i wouldn't touch him at 7), and

-Glennon is might go 1st (i wouldnt take him above 2nd).

-Tyler Wilson has head injuries and I would take him in the 2nd if he checks out medically.

-Bray has maturity issues

-that leaves Dysert, Jones, Manuel (huge development project, high ceiling but very low floor. Boom or bust)


Last edited by AZPSquared on Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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apollo14000


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
iRobot wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
AZPSquared wrote:
I would have Kolb and Hoyer with a 3rd or 4th rounder (maybe Landry Jones, Zac Dysert). Drafting a QB in the 5th-7th hasn't worked, maybe they should draft a QB earlier. I wanted Cousins or Foles last year.


Jones and Dysert are not ready to play in 2013.


Arguably, the only QBs in this draft that "could" be plug n play depending on state of franchise is Geno, Barkley, Wilson, Nassib, and Glennon. And that's being generous on some of those guys..


Which leads into what I personally would like to see happen. Either take one of the guys you mentioned or chase a veteran. Nothing else really helps this team.


Keim stated he believes in the Ron Wolf philosophy of accumulating QBs. So I think it's probable we'll draft one even if he isn't necessarily ready to start right away.
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DirtyDez


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The success rate of QB's in the mid-late draft is horrendous. If we take a QB it needs to be early and get reps from day 1.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollo14000 wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
iRobot wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
AZPSquared wrote:
I would have Kolb and Hoyer with a 3rd or 4th rounder (maybe Landry Jones, Zac Dysert). Drafting a QB in the 5th-7th hasn't worked, maybe they should draft a QB earlier. I wanted Cousins or Foles last year.


Jones and Dysert are not ready to play in 2013.


Arguably, the only QBs in this draft that "could" be plug n play depending on state of franchise is Geno, Barkley, Wilson, Nassib, and Glennon. And that's being generous on some of those guys..


Which leads into what I personally would like to see happen. Either take one of the guys you mentioned or chase a veteran. Nothing else really helps this team.


Keim stated he believes in the Ron Wolf philosophy of accumulating QBs. So I think it's probable we'll draft one even if he isn't necessarily ready to start right away.


We can sign one in FA.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZPSquared wrote:
-Tyler Wilson has head injuries and I would take him in the 2nd if he checks out medically.


If Wilson is cleared medically he is a top 5 pick. No way he even gets close to the second round. He would be lucky to get past the top 10-12.

His skillset is top notch. Only real mechanical issue is his 3/4 release, which is lower than you would want it, but it helps him get the ball out really quickly. He has a good arm and can spin the ball when he needs to. Threw a pro route tree (Though very "mesh" concept based, threw a lot of NFL routes.). He is tough, tough, tough in the pocket. Throws accurately on the run. He is a leader and has a hunger to win made all of his own checks at the LOS, not waiting on "check with me's" that plauge the college game.

I would be willing to take Tyler Wilson at #7 over anybody not named Geno Smith in this draft.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem of course is that being medically cleared from concussions is an oxymoron. Ya you might be symptom free to play short term but that doesn't change your long term outlook, nor does it prevent you from suffering another one. It's actually been medically proven that people with multiple concussions are at far greater risk to suffer a concussion than someone with a blank "history".

That's what I suspect is Kevin Kolb's issue. He was just routinely tapped in the head in 2011. Concussion, missed 4-5 games.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
The problem of course is that being medically cleared from concussions is an oxymoron. Ya you might be symptom free to play short term but that doesn't change your long term outlook, nor does it prevent you from suffering another one. It's actually been medically proven that people with multiple concussions are at far greater risk to suffer a concussion than someone with a blank "history".

That's what I suspect is Kevin Kolb's issue. He was just routinely tapped in the head in 2011. Concussion, missed 4-5 games.


The only reason I would hesitate on Wilson. ONLY reason.
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AZPSquared


Joined: 17 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
apollo14000 wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
iRobot wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
AZPSquared wrote:
I would have Kolb and Hoyer with a 3rd or 4th rounder (maybe Landry Jones, Zac Dysert). Drafting a QB in the 5th-7th hasn't worked, maybe they should draft a QB earlier. I wanted Cousins or Foles last year.


Jones and Dysert are not ready to play in 2013.


Arguably, the only QBs in this draft that "could" be plug n play depending on state of franchise is Geno, Barkley, Wilson, Nassib, and Glennon. And that's being generous on some of those guys..


Which leads into what I personally would like to see happen. Either take one of the guys you mentioned or chase a veteran. Nothing else really helps this team.


Keim stated he believes in the Ron Wolf philosophy of accumulating QBs. So I think it's probable we'll draft one even if he isn't necessarily ready to start right away.


We can sign one in FA.


Best one I can think of is Matt Moore
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iRobot


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
The problem of course is that being medically cleared from concussions is an oxymoron. Ya you might be symptom free to play short term but that doesn't change your long term outlook, nor does it prevent you from suffering another one. It's actually been medically proven that people with multiple concussions are at far greater risk to suffer a concussion than someone with a blank "history".

That's what I suspect is Kevin Kolb's issue. He was just routinely tapped in the head in 2011. Concussion, missed 4-5 games.


The only reason I would hesitate on Wilson. ONLY reason.


Tough with a kid that shows that type of skillset and the physical tools. Could be franchise signal caller or Jahvid Best concussion extraordinaire
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just for reference, the study the NFL conducted on player concussions showed NFL players with 2 or more concussions were 3 times more likely to suffer a concussion than a player with 1 or less known concussions. Players with 2 or more concussions are also more likely to develop long, sustained post-concussion symptoms.
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AZPSquared


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
AZPSquared wrote:
-Tyler Wilson has head injuries and I would take him in the 2nd if he checks out medically.


If Wilson is cleared medically he is a top 5 pick. No way he even gets close to the second round. He would be lucky to get past the top 10-12.

His skillset is top notch. Only real mechanical issue is his 3/4 release, which is lower than you would want it, but it helps him get the ball out really quickly. He has a good arm and can spin the ball when he needs to. Threw a pro route tree (Though very "mesh" concept based, threw a lot of NFL routes.). He is tough, tough, tough in the pocket. Throws accurately on the run. He is a leader and has a hunger to win made all of his own checks at the LOS, not waiting on "check with me's" that plauge the college game.

I would be willing to take Tyler Wilson at #7 over anybody not named Geno Smith in this draft.


I wouldnt take Wilson at #7. If any QB falls past the Jets pick at #9, then they would still be there in the top of the 2nd.
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iRobot


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Just for reference, the study the NFL conducted on player concussions showed NFL players with 2 or more concussions were 3 times more likely to suffer a concussion than a player with 1 or less known concussions. Players with 2 or more concussions are also more likely to develop long, sustained post-concussion symptoms.


The problem with that study is that a lot of concussions can go without notice even to those that suffer them depending on their severity. With a violent sport like football, I could almost guarantee that every play has had some form of brain injury ranging from extremely mild to severe.

I don't know how you take them out of the equation either. Even if you take away helmets, concussions still occur they were just more concealed back in the day or people were uneducated about the symptoms.
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AZPSquared


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Just for reference, the study the NFL conducted on player concussions showed NFL players with 2 or more concussions were 3 times more likely to suffer a concussion than a player with 1 or less known concussions. Players with 2 or more concussions are also more likely to develop long, sustained post-concussion symptoms.


I think i heard Jay Cutler has had about 6 concussions. Thats because he more susceptible
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iRobot wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Just for reference, the study the NFL conducted on player concussions showed NFL players with 2 or more concussions were 3 times more likely to suffer a concussion than a player with 1 or less known concussions. Players with 2 or more concussions are also more likely to develop long, sustained post-concussion symptoms.


The problem with that study is that a lot of concussions can go without notice even to those that suffer them depending on their severity. With a violent sport like football, I could almost guarantee that every play has had some form of brain injury ranging from extremely mild to severe.

I don't know how you take them out of the equation either. Even if you take away helmets, concussions still occur they were just more concealed back in the day or people were uneducated about the symptoms.


The study was conducted with people suffering known systems yes but I don't thyink that changees the validity of it.

And I agree, there probably isn't a way to change it. There's been talks about specially made helmets and what not but it's hard to say whether those would be effective and to what extent. All I know is that people who suffer concussions are at greater risk to suffer another. That definitely plays a role in how you much money/draft resources a team would be willing to invest. It also, obviously, brings into question the player's long term outlook. You mentioned Jahvid Best, he's the poster boy. He's 23 years old and will probably never play big time snaps again, assuming he even gets back on the field. No doctor in Detroit wanted anything to do with him.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZPSquared wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Just for reference, the study the NFL conducted on player concussions showed NFL players with 2 or more concussions were 3 times more likely to suffer a concussion than a player with 1 or less known concussions. Players with 2 or more concussions are also more likely to develop long, sustained post-concussion symptoms.


I think i heard Jay Cutler has had about 6 concussions. Thats because he more susceptible


He's missed NFL games because of that too.
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