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Divisional Round: Baltimore Rayvens @ Denver Broncos
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Who is remembered more highly?
Ray Lewis
45%
 45%  [ 21 ]
Peyton Manning
30%
 30%  [ 14 ]
Yes..
23%
 23%  [ 11 ]
Total Votes : 46

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Greenlaser86


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*Turns on tunes* I've got a feeling........ that Saturday won't be the last game.... that SATURDAY WONT BE THE LAST GAME, that SATURDAY WONT BE THE LAST GAME WOOOOHOOOOO *Turns off tunes*

Ravens 30
Denver 24
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BaltimoreTerp


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
As I've been saying, I am not guaranteeing a Broncos victory. I fully recognize that the Ravens can win, but the feeling I get from most Ravens fans is that their team will win because they are "hungrier" and somehow want it more, something that cannot be quantified, as well as the fact that they're "doing it for Ray." Denver's homefield advantage will be big in this. They have been good at home, and Baltimore's defense was on the field a ton last week, and is now going on a short week to high altitude.
No, most Ravens fans are saying we can win this game because it's the playoffs and it's not fun to spend the week before a do-or-die game predicting your own demise. That some Denver fans seem personally offended by this is a little amusing. Did you expect to come into this forum to see us competing to see who could predict the biggest Denver blowout? We're getting ourselves amped for this game the same way your fans are. What else would be the point of doing this all?

Anyways, between the NFL Gen thread for this game spending 5 pages debating whether the Ravens match up well with the Patriots and now this argument here about whether the Texans home field advantage is superior to Denver's, it's readily evident that when these two fanbases come together, we know how to talk about the things that matter.
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
As I've been saying, I am not guaranteeing a Broncos victory. I fully recognize that the Ravens can win, but the feeling I get from most Ravens fans is that their team will win because they are "hungrier" and somehow want it more, something that cannot be quantified, as well as the fact that they're "doing it for Ray." Denver's homefield advantage will be big in this. They have been good at home, and Baltimore's defense was on the field a ton last week, and is now going on a short week to high altitude.
No, most Ravens fans are saying we can win this game because it's the playoffs and it's not fun to spend the week before a do-or-die game predicting your own demise. That some Denver fans seem personally offended by this is a little amusing. Did you expect to come into this forum to see us competing to see who could predict the biggest Denver blowout? We're getting ourselves amped for this game the same way your fans are. What else would be the point of doing this all?

Anyways, between the NFL Gen thread for this game spending 5 pages debating whether the Ravens match up well with the Patriots and now this argument here about whether the Texans home field advantage is superior to Denver's, it's readily evident that when these two fanbases come together, we know how to talk about the things that matter.


When it gets to that point I just read everything, all trash talk, everything like Leon from Curb.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs5w02NvSyI
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nevermore


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll never understand fans going to an opposing team's GDT to argue their points (not talking about trolling).
I mean, I get the intentions behind it, but those things generally just end up being a waste of time.
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ravens81


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One key to this game, obviously, will be to keep Manning off the field. Do you all think the Ravens continue, based on their past success, and use the no-huddle or should they be more cautionary?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ravens81 wrote:
One key to this game, obviously, will be to keep Manning off the field. Do you all think the Ravens continue, based on their past success, and use the no-huddle or should they be more cautionary?


You can use the no-huddle offense and still chew up clock. It all comes back to being efficient and executing the plays
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
My much longer post that is speculation about how the lesser players mindsets will be impacted because of the last game- located at the end of page 3.


Most of what you said here is either pure speculation. How in the hell can you say that rotational players and guys who don't start are going to be somehow less motivated and have some false sense of confidence? Based on what exactly? Are you speaking with these players directly? What evidence is there of that being the case in any Broncos game this year?

The prior game we played was NOT closer than the score indicated. It COULD have been 10-3 or 10-7 going into halftime, instead it was 17-0 and half and 31-3 into the fourth. Denver DID sputter a bit in the beginning of that game, I'll agree, but I believe Baltimore took 1.5 quarters to get a first down. It was close if Baltimore scored but instead Flacco threw a pick 6.

The third paragraph, I'm sorry, is a complete joke and all idle speculation. The Broncos have been a fairly focused team all year. I can point to games that many have called trap games to show that Denver performed well and continued to look prepared. I cannot speak to their mental fortitude for this game, but neither can you. I will say, however, that your team played a VERY emotional game last time, whether you would characterize it as such is up to you, and they may come out ultra-hyped again....or they may come out flat. The same can be said for Denver. But pitting your backups against ours by saying that yours will be hungrier makes no sense.

Denver has two very good receivers, who matched up against these same corners last time. No injury excuses there. Eric Decker made Cary Williams his personal whipping boy. I don't care how often he was targeted, he pulled down 8 grabs, over 150 and TDs. He smoked Cary all day. They held DT in check at the expense of getting torched elsewhere. They also gave up a big chunk of rushing yardage, something I notice you left out. The Ravens rush defense hasn't been spectacular this year. Denver has done pretty well in that area recently, and I see no reason why that won't continue. Denver also has weapons in their TEs and Stokley, as well as Moreno out of the backfield. They aren't New England, but can Baltimore cover all of these people and force Manning to make quick decisions?

As I've been saying, I am not guaranteeing a Broncos victory. I fully recognize that the Ravens can win, but the feeling I get from most Ravens fans is that their team will win because they are "hungrier" and somehow want it more, something that cannot be quantified, as well as the fact that they're "doing it for Ray." Denver's homefield advantage will be big in this. They have been good at home, and Baltimore's defense was on the field a ton last week, and is now going on a short week to high altitude.

Laughing
1. Honestly? You really come on here and say that my post about my thoughts on this game and the "mentality" of lesser players is "pure speculation"... no dipstick Sherlock! You know, because that's what people on here tend to do when they make posts... are you pissed because I didn't include "IMO" enough times for you to feel comfortable.

2. I don't need to talk to players in the Denver locker room. I've played in enough playoff games myself, I know enough professional athletes, and I've watched enough professional athletes play the game to understand a "mentality" of a lesser player. It's the same in every sport. Some non-stars... will eventually "prove" themselves to be stars because of games like this. They will prove that they have the consistency to consistently execute their technique no matter the circumstance. But not all of them will. Most of them, will play purely be emotion and energy.

3. Thinks for just proving my point. The lesser players on a team will essentially carry the same attitude as you are in this thread. They will say things like "that game wasn't close at all" when in reality, you guys didn't dominate like normally that type of score would indicate. Your game where you beat us was quite similar to our game against Cincy first game of the year. We didn't dominate that game like the score indicated. It was largely just a few big plays that went our way... that lead to such an imbalanced score. Same here. Denver had the pick 6 on a drive that 9/10 is guaranteed points. That play changed the entire nature of the game- specifically for an OC calling his very first game. But like I said, I don't expect the lesser players to be like a Peyton Manning, Champ Bailey... to use another sport.. a Jordan, Kobe, Duncan... you know, the guys who are so thorough. The guys that play every snap/possession like it's their last.

The mistake that you're making is in not knowing my history involved with/understanding of the human psyche... I don't need to take a locker room poll to understand mentality. You've essentially proven my point. The lesser players will think very much like you. They will insist that they blew us out last time... they will invoke a superiority complex from this. And because of this, their focus will be less than 100%... put it at 90%. And in a game like this... the difference between 10% is in winning the game and losing by two scores.

4. No, the third paragraph isn't a complete joke. Have you polled my sensibilities to understand whether or not, I was indeed joking to make such a statement? I think not. You have no facts or polls to stimulate this theory of yours in reference to my paragraph. In fact, I believe your rebuttal to be purely speculation....

5. Good, you can't speak to the mental fortitude of the players. But my previous post clearly spoke about the mental fortitude of the players, so indeed- it is possible for me to make such statements. I have no divinity personally subduing my divination here. While you are clearly restricted in your abilities by your own admission, I am not similarly subdued....

6. They did play an emotional game didn't they? But do you think that had more to do with it being the last game Ray would play at M&T Bank... OR more likely, it being the fact that any of these games in the playoffs could be Ray's last... that no player wants to be responsible for being the guy who hurt his team's chances because he didn't play with enough energy and emotion to give Ray the best chance to go out on top? Personally I say the former would be more impactful to the fans and Ray himself... while the latter would be more impactful to the players.

7. Actually it makes complete sense. Our backups will be more hungry for this game because a) some have seen defeat in the playoffs over the last five seasons and so they aren't content with the status quo; b) they were blown out in their last game against a team, lesser psches react most strongly when they have something to prove; c) This is Ray Lewis' last ride, many players with weak psyches who wouldn't respond to the previous two reasonings will now respond to wanting to play to their greatest potential for their leader; d) the Broncos conversely haven't seen as much accumulated loss in the playoffs for it to become a motivating edge; e) The lesser players on your unit will likely and unknowingly carry the same superiority complex heading into this game as you have to this thread; f) Their is no extra layer of motivation for the lesser Broncos players to pull from to compare to this... they do have HFA however... and that should help.

8. Why should I mention it? We had a banged up Ngata, Terrell Suggs having just injured his bicep and was much more limited, Bernard Pollard didn't play in the game, all the while starting our backup ILBs the entire game... all of which culminated in Knowshon having an outlier of a game. The rest of his performances in the last five games were muddied with 3.5 ypc on average. He's not a factor back. And more importantly, he's not the kind of RB that tends to give our defense fits. We tend to have issues with either the big bruisers OR hyper-athletic options (like CJ2k and Jamal Charles)... and Ballard fits the bill because of his physical playing style. Moreno is a finesse back that wants to make people miss more often than not, he's like a very poor man's version of LeSean McCoy.

When this defense is playing on all cylinders they hold backs like Moreno to less than 3.5 YPC... and right now, they are. The Peyton Manning (knowing when to audible to the correct run) factor will probably help Moreno boost his average to around 3.7- so basically, I don't view him to be a guy that's going to be an impact player in this game.. at least not enough to be worth mentioning.

9. And I do. We have our two best starting ILBs playing in this game. Our best defensive player in Haloti Ngata is much more healthy now than at that point in the season. Suggs is more healthy now as well. Our defense also is known for upping its level of play come playoff time over what they elicit in the regular season. That... and the fact that Moreno hasn't been doing as well as you made it seem. Not breaking 3.7 YPC in any of the other 4 games outside of ours in his last five games... isn't what I'd call... "playing pretty well". Personally I'd call that 'average' or below.

10. Sure you aren't. You're only saying you aren't guaranteeing anything... all while hanging onto the notion that since the Broncos dominated the last game, have the 2nd best defense vs. the run in the regular season, they're playing at home, they have a running game that's been 'pretty good', multiple awesome receiver options that can't be stopped, and Peyton Manning... all while playing a Ravens unit that could come out flat because of their last game being emotional... basically this should all culminate into a close game that could go either way... cool story bro. Try camping harder next time.

11. This is simply inaccurate. We believe our team CAN win because we will have more to play for, we're more battle tested to this point, we match up well enough to the Broncos, and because this team is a Dr. Jeckly/Mr. Hyde team... that is either playing like crap or world beaters... so we acknowledge the fact that Hyde is always possible, but because of the nature of the stakes... we believe we'll see Dr. Jeckyl. And we believe that our team playing its best ball, will beat yours in this game.

12. And we also had a nice rotation going with many of our defensive players to keep them fresh. The only ones that played a lot were Ray Lewis... who hasn't played in a game for the last month since he's been activated... and should be pretty fresh because of it. He also didn't take many blows as the line kept him fresh. Also Dannell Ellerbe saw many snaps, but again, similar to Ray... he's been resting up for the past few weeks. Ed Reed didn't have to make too many plays requiring big hits and so his shoulder should be good. Pollard was good. Also the defense has been facing that amount of time on the field for most of the season... so this is old hat by now to them.

Also you're attitudinal affect goes both ways. The Ravens "train" in lower attitudes and therefore their speed and explosiveness will be greater when performing at higher altitudes because of the lower resistance level. The Broncos on the other hand train at the higher altitude and will therefore see their explosiveness at a similar level.

Also being at a higher altitude means Justin Tucker will be pushing his kicking range back to about 70 yards. And Tuckers gonna Tuck.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DB: on your point #2...case and point, Tramon Williams. He had his coming out party when GB went to Atlanta 3 years ago and he dominated the game and ever since then, he's been considered a pretty good CB in this league, but before then was relatively unknown. The same might be said for a guy like Paul Kruger on Saturday if he continues to dominate. I think you're absolutely correct in all of your points. What a post.

TUCKER'S GONNA TUCK!!!!!
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BaltimoreTerp


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently Harbaugh is going to have the team arrive in Denver as late as possible in hopes that it minimizes the affects of the altitude. I won't pretend to understand how exactly the human body reacts to that kind of altitude and whether this is the correct gambit in a technical sense, but intuitively I would think that it would be better to come earlier in order to have practice time to give the players better familiarity with the altitude and a better expectation as to how they need to adjust. I guess I'll defer to the Ravens brass/training staff/doctors because I'm sure this decision is based on some sort of more nuanced study than my completely unscientific instincts, but it definitely makes me a little nervous.
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
Apparently Harbaugh is going to have the team arrive in Denver as late as possible in hopes that it minimizes the affects of the altitude. I won't pretend to understand how exactly the human body reacts to that kind of altitude and whether this is the correct gambit in a technical sense, but intuitively I would think that it would be better to come earlier in order to have practice time to give the players better familiarity with the altitude and a better expectation as to how they need to adjust. I guess I'll defer to the Ravens brass/training staff/doctors because I'm sure this decision is based on some sort of more nuanced study than my completely unscientific instincts, but it definitely makes me a little nervous.


I've heard that you either try to get there 2 weeks in advance or the night before. 2 days won't help.
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BaltimoreTerp


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sp6488 wrote:
BaltimoreTerp wrote:
Apparently Harbaugh is going to have the team arrive in Denver as late as possible in hopes that it minimizes the affects of the altitude. I won't pretend to understand how exactly the human body reacts to that kind of altitude and whether this is the correct gambit in a technical sense, but intuitively I would think that it would be better to come earlier in order to have practice time to give the players better familiarity with the altitude and a better expectation as to how they need to adjust. I guess I'll defer to the Ravens brass/training staff/doctors because I'm sure this decision is based on some sort of more nuanced study than my completely unscientific instincts, but it definitely makes me a little nervous.


I've heard that you either try to get there 2 weeks in advance or the night before. 2 days won't help.
Well then WHY WEREN'T WE IN DENVER THESE PAST 2 WEEKS?! ALL I SAW WAS US HANGING OUT IN CINCINNATI AND BALTIMORE WHEN WE COULD HAVE BEEN GETTING READY FOR THE DENVER ALTITUDE.

FIRE HARBAUGH
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
BaltimoreTerp wrote:
Apparently Harbaugh is going to have the team arrive in Denver as late as possible in hopes that it minimizes the affects of the altitude. I won't pretend to understand how exactly the human body reacts to that kind of altitude and whether this is the correct gambit in a technical sense, but intuitively I would think that it would be better to come earlier in order to have practice time to give the players better familiarity with the altitude and a better expectation as to how they need to adjust. I guess I'll defer to the Ravens brass/training staff/doctors because I'm sure this decision is based on some sort of more nuanced study than my completely unscientific instincts, but it definitely makes me a little nervous.


I've heard that you either try to get there 2 weeks in advance or the night before. 2 days won't help.
Well then WHY WEREN'T WE IN DENVER THESE PAST 2 WEEKS?! ALL I SAW WAS US HANGING OUT IN CINCINNATI AND BALTIMORE WHEN WE COULD HAVE BEEN GETTING READY FOR THE DENVER ALTITUDE.

FIRE HARBAUGH


*sees massive text and automatically assumes loud noises*

RELEASE FLACCO!
ED REED CAN'T TACKLE!
FIRE CAM CAMERON!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
BaltimoreTerp wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
BaltimoreTerp wrote:
Apparently Harbaugh is going to have the team arrive in Denver as late as possible in hopes that it minimizes the affects of the altitude. I won't pretend to understand how exactly the human body reacts to that kind of altitude and whether this is the correct gambit in a technical sense, but intuitively I would think that it would be better to come earlier in order to have practice time to give the players better familiarity with the altitude and a better expectation as to how they need to adjust. I guess I'll defer to the Ravens brass/training staff/doctors because I'm sure this decision is based on some sort of more nuanced study than my completely unscientific instincts, but it definitely makes me a little nervous.


I've heard that you either try to get there 2 weeks in advance or the night before. 2 days won't help.
Well then WHY WEREN'T WE IN DENVER THESE PAST 2 WEEKS?! ALL I SAW WAS US HANGING OUT IN CINCINNATI AND BALTIMORE WHEN WE COULD HAVE BEEN GETTING READY FOR THE DENVER ALTITUDE.

FIRE HARBAUGH


*sees massive text and automatically assumes loud noises*

RELEASE FLACCO!
ED REED CAN'T TACKLE!
FIRE CAM CAMERON!


WHAT TIME IS IT?!

GAME TIME!

WHAT TIME IS IT!??!

GAME TIME!!!

ANY DOGS IN THE HOUSE!??!!

*WOOF*WOOF*WOOF*

ANY DOGS IN THE HOUSE!??!!

*WOOF*WOOF*WOOF*

DOMINATE ON 3, MEN!

1...2....3....

DOMINATE!!
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sp6488 wrote:
BaltimoreTerp wrote:
Apparently Harbaugh is going to have the team arrive in Denver as late as possible in hopes that it minimizes the affects of the altitude. I won't pretend to understand how exactly the human body reacts to that kind of altitude and whether this is the correct gambit in a technical sense, but intuitively I would think that it would be better to come earlier in order to have practice time to give the players better familiarity with the altitude and a better expectation as to how they need to adjust. I guess I'll defer to the Ravens brass/training staff/doctors because I'm sure this decision is based on some sort of more nuanced study than my completely unscientific instincts, but it definitely makes me a little nervous.


I've heard that you either try to get there 2 weeks in advance or the night before. 2 days won't help.

Yeah to build up a long term immunity to the altitude it would take about... 40 days or so. A short term immunity can build (where one doesn't rush their breathing) after about a week to a little more.

Especially because these guys are athletes the other effect that I would be most concerned of... which this late arrival likely helps to avoid, is the fact that the higher altitudes slows down the body's metabolism. Which means getting proper pre-game nutrition would be of concern.

Personally I think the best route might've been to travel twice. Travel to the nearest city at low altitude and stay for a night... then take a really short trip to Denver as close to gametime as it takes to get all the pre-game warm ups done.

That said, the altitude can benefit this team. Their muscles should see less stress when playing so some of the banged up players should feel slightly more rejuvenated. The oxygenation will be a problem as the game goes on, but a healthy rotation for the front 7 and for both backs will be great.

A concern however might be Flacco's accuracy. The altitude is thin, which means on deep throws he could be more likely to overthrow his man... which means he might actually connect with Torrey Smith a lot this game since he's been underthrowing him for much of the year.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
BaltimoreTerp wrote:
Apparently Harbaugh is going to have the team arrive in Denver as late as possible in hopes that it minimizes the affects of the altitude. I won't pretend to understand how exactly the human body reacts to that kind of altitude and whether this is the correct gambit in a technical sense, but intuitively I would think that it would be better to come earlier in order to have practice time to give the players better familiarity with the altitude and a better expectation as to how they need to adjust. I guess I'll defer to the Ravens brass/training staff/doctors because I'm sure this decision is based on some sort of more nuanced study than my completely unscientific instincts, but it definitely makes me a little nervous.


I've heard that you either try to get there 2 weeks in advance or the night before. 2 days won't help.

Yeah to build up a long term immunity to the altitude it would take about... 40 days or so. A short term immunity can build (where one doesn't rush their breathing) after about a week to a little more.

Especially because these guys are athletes the other effect that I would be most concerned of... which this late arrival likely helps to avoid, is the fact that the higher altitudes slows down the body's metabolism. Which means getting proper pre-game nutrition would be of concern.

Personally I think the best route might've been to travel twice. Travel to the nearest city at low altitude and stay for a night... then take a really short trip to Denver as close to gametime as it takes to get all the pre-game warm ups done.

That said, the altitude can benefit this team. Their muscles should see less stress when playing so some of the banged up players should feel slightly more rejuvenated. The oxygenation will be a problem as the game goes on, but a healthy rotation for the front 7 and for both backs will be great.

A concern however might be Flacco's accuracy. The altitude is thin, which means on deep throws he could be more likely to overthrow his man... which means he might actually connect with Torrey Smith a lot this game since he's been underthrowing him for much of the year.


The only problem with this route is that there is A LOT more involved with moving a football team from city to city over just the players and coaches showing up a the airport.
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