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ktarinze
Joined: 08 Oct 2010
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 Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| disaacs wrote: | | milanb wrote: | | Because I still think Webb has a chance to put it all together. |
That's quite optimistic, considering he's in his 3rd year in the league and still can't read a defense, has no pocket presence, and has zero accuracy.
The reality is that Joe Webb is an athlete with no elite positional skills. He is a NFL athlete, but not a NFL player. He likely will be cut before the regular season next year and either MBT or someone else will be the primary backup. |
If that is optimistic than it is very optimistic that ponder can be better than he is now. Ponder has had these sorts of game before in GB and in seattle. One bad game for the 2012 season doesn't define if your this or that. I don't believe in webb or ponder being able to turn it around but don't understand the people that kill webb but don't kill ponder as well.
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disaacs
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 19963
Location: Brownbackistan
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| ktarinze wrote: | | Ponder has had these sorts of game before in GB and in seattle. One bad game for the 2012 season doesn't define if your this or that. I don't believe in webb or ponder being able to turn it around but don't understand the people that kill webb but don't kill ponder as well. |
Unfortunately, I didn't have the benefit of seeing Ponder in either the Seattle game or the first Lambeau game, so I don't have the visual comparison. The only one I've seen is this last one from Webb, and that quarterbacking display rivaled that of McNabb, Tarvaris, and Spergon Wynn.
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vike daddy
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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i don't believe in "killing" Webb for his game the other night, and really don't understand those who feel it's certain he won't be on the team next year. he had an awful, awful game, there's no way to sugar coat it. but given that he's had better games in the past, shows to me he has those skills in him.
now if Ponder goes down in the future and Webb has more awful, awful games then it's looking bad for young Joe. but that hasn't happened yet and i'm a big believer in giving benefits to the doubts.
i guess for some the doubt has already left the building. like Elvis.
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ktarinze
Joined: 08 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| disaacs wrote: | | ktarinze wrote: | | Ponder has had these sorts of game before in GB and in seattle. One bad game for the 2012 season doesn't define if your this or that. I don't believe in webb or ponder being able to turn it around but don't understand the people that kill webb but don't kill ponder as well. |
Unfortunately, I didn't have the benefit of seeing Ponder in either the Seattle game or the first Lambeau game, so I don't have the visual comparison. The only one I've seen is this last one from Webb, and that quarterbacking display rivaled that of McNabb, Tarvaris, and Spergon Wynn. |
oh ok gotcha. Wasn't necessarily mentioning you on this but for others that have killed him. The seattle and GB game were just as awful.
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vike daddy
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| ktarinze wrote: | | The seattle and GB game were just as awful. |
i doubt they were just as awful, but once QB's drop to the awful plateau, i guess it really doesn't matter if one is more awful than the other.
but the point is that this analysis keeps going back to Ponder's past performances, not his most recent ones. not the ones that hopefully showed he was trending away from the past ones.
i think, respectfully, that those who are not trusting of Ponder keep harping on that. what he did half a season ago. if we want to play those cards, then his performance in the SF game should be on the table too.
but i'm not seeing that one mentioned in his past resume.
yes, his first game against GB was awful and wasn't half a season ago, but many reports from several people have come out that his performance in that one was the catalyst for his improvement after it.
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Last edited by vike daddy on Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Worm Guts
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| If we're going to be a playoff caliber team, we need a more reliable backup. I still like Webb's ability to run with the ball and I'd like to fine a way to use it, but I don't know if we can continue to keep him as a QB. |
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rpmwr19
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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It's going to come down to Webb vs. MBT next year. Now that this team has seen that it can contend a veteran type #2 QB is a must.
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ktarinze
Joined: 08 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| vike daddy wrote: | | ktarinze wrote: | | The seattle and GB game were just as awful. |
i doubt they were just as awful, but once QB's drop to the awful plateau, i guess it really doesn't matter if one is more awful than the other.
but the point is that this analysis keeps going back to Ponder's past performances, not his most recent ones. not the ones that hopefully showed he was trending away from the past ones.
i think, respectfully, that those who are not trusting of Ponder keep harping on that. what he did half a season ago. if we ant to play those cards, then his performance in the SF game should be on the table too.
but i'm not seeing that one mentioned in his past resume. |
Your right no point in arguing which one was worst (even though I think the settle game was). Only reason I'm talking about those games is because of webb's recent horrible performance. The people that are saying get rid of webb and that he is awful were the same ones sticking behind Ponder after awful games.
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vike daddy
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| ktarinze wrote: | | The people that are saying get rid of webb and that he is awful were the same ones sticking behind Ponder after awful games. |
if i may say, and i do with the greatest amount of respect i can project for you and because i would LOVE to make some progress on this issue, it's almost as if comments like this are more about posters and grouping them, than their football opinions.
and i have seen that from both sides of the argument too.
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ktarinze
Joined: 08 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| vike daddy wrote: | | ktarinze wrote: | | The people that are saying get rid of webb and that he is awful were the same ones sticking behind Ponder after awful games. |
if i may say, and i do with the greatest amount of respect i can project for you and because i would LOVE to make some progress on this issue, it's almost as if comments like this are more about posters and grouping them, than their football opinions.
and i have seen that from both sides of the argument too. |
Yep but just for me I don't believe in either one. I just don't understand the defense for one and the non defense of another. One bad game to me at least doesn't make or break you especially when the QB that some have defended has had multiple one. Probably because he has played more but still.
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vike daddy
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| ktarinze wrote: | | I just don't understand the defense for one and the non defense of another. |
people are funny critters.
what is absolute certainty to one, is massive doubt to another.
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HighHopes
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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Webb may very well deserve a better chance but I doubt and probably shouldnt be here IMO. A little like TJack, granted Webb's second chance will be much more justifiable lol.
I screwed up this post alot lol, I'll add on, to be fair, early on in the Webb vs Ponder debate, there was barely any info on either of them. Still not much on Webb but I think a lot of people liked what they saw of Ponder.
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rpmwr19
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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Location: Stillwater, MN
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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It's easier to defend Ponder because you can physically see he has the mechanics, although they still need work, of a QB.
Joe Webb does not. His footwork also seems like he stuck between running and throwing, and he dives back out of the pocket instead of climbing it (strip sack from the game). That is only a few examples.
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Klomp
Joined: 11 Aug 2011
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Location: The Home of Schwan's Ice Cream
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| vike daddy wrote: | | i don't believe in "killing" Webb for his game the other night, and really don't understand those who feel it's certain he won't be on the team next year. he had an awful, awful game, there's no way to sugar coat it. but given that he's had better games in the past, shows to me he has those skills in him. |
The more he's out there, the worse he looks.
In 2010, he had two games vs DET and PHI. Last year, he had two poor outings vs DET and CHI. Sure he brought us back in WAS game, but he only threw 5 passes.
How about this for a stat. In games Webb plays in, the Vikings are 4-12. A number of those are games he barely played, so I'll narrow it even further. When Webb attempts at least 10 passes, the Vikings are 1-5.
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DJpillz317
Joined: 21 Oct 2012
Posts: 147
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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He's a poor man's RGIII, but makes a good back up when other teams can't game-plan for him. But man, did he play like horse sh**, he really needs to work on his passing game instead or rocketing balls downfield.
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