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Adrenaline_Flux


Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 20650
Location: The Iowa
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sanitizer wrote:
I get in some heated discussions with friends as well (albeit some serious bandwagon jumpers) and I think a lot of the issues, and problems people have with judging players their unfamiliar with is that fantasy football comes into play. Its the easiest and fastest way to get a "judgement" on a player. Which is absolutely obsurd (spelling?)

Phil is the only reason we have any type of an offence. Norv didn't help, the O-Line is essentially working with the opponent, and chemistry and timing with receivers is absolutely massive in this league.

I agree with most guys on here, QB of the future isn't a need whatsoever right now, the pressing need on the line is too overwhelming to even think about a rookie, or inexperienced QB playing behind that heap of poop.


I didn't even know what a Peter River was until I joined fantasy footballs league this year and finished winless cuz of him.
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Barkey88


Joined: 12 May 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
sanitizer wrote:
I get in some heated discussions with friends as well (albeit some serious bandwagon jumpers) and I think a lot of the issues, and problems people have with judging players their unfamiliar with is that fantasy football comes into play. Its the easiest and fastest way to get a "judgement" on a player. Which is absolutely obsurd (spelling?)

Phil is the only reason we have any type of an offence. Norv didn't help, the O-Line is essentially working with the opponent, and chemistry and timing with receivers is absolutely massive in this league.

I agree with most guys on here, QB of the future isn't a need whatsoever right now, the pressing need on the line is too overwhelming to even think about a rookie, or inexperienced QB playing behind that heap of poop.


I didn't even know what a Peter River was until I joined fantasy footballs league this year and finished winless cuz of him.


I couldn't help but laugh for a solid minute at this comment
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If footballsfuture had a like feature, I'd dominate it
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Barkey88


Joined: 12 May 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
If footballsfuture had a like feature, I'd dominate it


I'll talk to my people see what I can do....maybe get some contract signings in there for people bringing in the big likes. Think you are ready for that big contract boy?
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was born to do this bro
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SanDiegoScrubs


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As much as people want to close their eyes and deny it we should consider looking at developing a QB. You can blame the line all you want, but the top QB's don't make the type of mistakes River's does on a consistent basis. I still don't know how a 9 year veteran and a supposed "elite" QB doesn't know how to run a competent 2 minute drill, though I'd guess that's the QB guru Norv's fault.
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Barkey88


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SanDiegoScrubs wrote:
As much as people want to close their eyes and deny it we should consider looking at developing a QB. You can blame the line all you want, but the top QB's don't make the type of mistakes River's does on a consistent basis. I still don't know how a 9 year veteran and a supposed "elite" QB doesn't know how to run a competent 2 minute drill, though I'd guess that's the QB guru Norv's fault.


I dislike Norv as a coach as much as the next guy, but he is a legitimate Coordinator and a solid quarterback coach. And if you took all of the offensive threats that any of the other elite quarterbacks had or if they had no time to throw at all, they would drop off a lot more than you think.

Philip has to be able to step into his throws due to his inability to just sling the ball wherever he wants and he cannot do that with the offensive line that he has now. Also he feels pressured to make throws that he wouldn't normally make due to not trusting anyone on that team. It's so obvious that he doesn't trust any of them anymore if you look at the types of passes he as been throwing this year. Back when he had VJ he would throw it downfield on almost any single man coverage because he trusted him to get the ball, but I think this past year he threw the least amount of passes over 20 yards or something like that.
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AlonzoHarris


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know guys, I have seen Philip Rivers succeed even under all kinds of possible adversity before...
A bad offensive line, he has that for a while now... Running game lacking, as well...
Depleted wide receiver corps due to injury, remember when he was without Gates, Jackson and Floyd out injured and continued to be great with MacMichael, Ajirotutu and Glenn instead?

In the past, adversities with the Chargers were not excuses for Rivers production... On the contrary, the adversities were a reason for inflated stats...

You guys talk about him not being able to plant his feet for his throws and not possessing that rocket of an arm, but man... Rivers always had an awkward throwing motion, one that is shorter and quicker than the usual QB and that always worked very well for him.

Now, suddenly all of the same adversities he has endured for most of his career, have become the reasons why Rivers play hasn't been up to expectations.
I disagree with that... Rivers has been playing bad because of himself, that's the truth.
He used to be one of the best QB in the league as far as decision making goes... Now he's been throwing horrible picks, that leave you scratching your head trying to figure out what he had seen there.

I will hold off judgement for next season, with a new head coach in place, to see if Rivers can go back to his old self or not. Maybe that's all that he needs, a change and to me Norv Turner and AJ Smith firing was long overdue and maybe some of the players also thought that.

To me, this whole team is in need of a revitalization and I still think that they are better than their record indicates.
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll say this: I see no point in a developmental QB. Let's be realistic here, how many developmental QB's (who weren't selected in the 1st round and sat behind an aging vet) have really found a ton of success in the modern NFL (last decade or so)?

- Matt Schaub, but he's still not the cog you want to build around.
- Matt Hasselbeck, again... without an elite running game he really wasn't much to worry about.
- Colt McCoy... ha!
- Colin Kaepernick - best example... and took a high 2nd round pick to acquire.

You're literally banking on the highly unlikely prospect of unearthing a Brady or Russell Wilson.

With the advent of the rookie wage scale and QB's being in such demand, the quality of "developmental" QB's available in the mid-to-late rounds is shoddy at best - most of these guys are lucky if they're career-backups.

The better philosophy is you ride with what brung ya, and if he runs you down the rabbit hole and to another woeful finish and Top 10 pick then you cut loose and start investing premium picks (i.e. 1st round picks) into the best QB prospects in the draft class.

If Rivers blows this year, then we're likely right back where we are (possibly picking even higher as teams like Pittsburgh and Baltimore likely rebound), which puts us in a position to make a move for Teddy Bridgewater, Derek Carr, Braxton Miller, or Johnny Manziel or Kevin Hogan whenever those latter two decide to come out. It's getting to the point (if it's not there already) where you don't win a Lombardi without a premium QB. And the odds definitively state that barring a worse than 1/100 shot, you don't find premium QB's in the middle rounds of the draft anymore.
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JammerHammer21


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
I'll say this: I see no point in a developmental QB. Let's be realistic here, how many developmental QB's (who weren't selected in the 1st round and sat behind an aging vet) have really found a ton of success in the modern NFL (last decade or so)?

- Matt Schaub, but he's still not the cog you want to build around.
- Matt Hasselbeck, again... without an elite running game he really wasn't much to worry about.
- Colt McCoy... ha!
- Colin Kaepernick - best example... and took a high 2nd round pick to acquire.

You're literally banking on the highly unlikely prospect of unearthing a Brady or Russell Wilson.

With the advent of the rookie wage scale and QB's being in such demand, the quality of "developmental" QB's available in the mid-to-late rounds is shoddy at best - most of these guys are lucky if they're career-backups.

The better philosophy is you ride with what brung ya, and if he runs you down the rabbit hole and to another woeful finish and Top 10 pick then you cut loose and start investing premium picks (i.e. 1st round picks) into the best QB prospects in the draft class.

If Rivers blows this year, then we're likely right back where we are (possibly picking even higher as teams like Pittsburgh and Baltimore likely rebound), which puts us in a position to make a move for Teddy Bridgewater, Derek Carr, Braxton Miller, or Johnny Manziel or Kevin Hogan whenever those latter two decide to come out. It's getting to the point (if it's not there already) where you don't win a Lombardi without a premium QB. And the odds definitively state that barring a worse than 1/100 shot, you don't find premium QB's in the middle rounds of the draft anymore.


I am disappoint LBC.
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Lombardi - Isn't that the guy the trophy is named after? If so, top 3 coach of all time.

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The LBC


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JammerHammer21 wrote:
The LBC wrote:
I'll say this: I see no point in a developmental QB. Let's be realistic here, how many developmental QB's (who weren't selected in the 1st round and sat behind an aging vet) have really found a ton of success in the modern NFL (last decade or so)?

- Matt Schaub, but he's still not the cog you want to build around.
- Matt Hasselbeck, again... without an elite running game he really wasn't much to worry about.
- Colt McCoy... ha!
- Colin Kaepernick - best example... and took a high 2nd round pick to acquire.

You're literally banking on the highly unlikely prospect of unearthing a Brady or Russell Wilson.

With the advent of the rookie wage scale and QB's being in such demand, the quality of "developmental" QB's available in the mid-to-late rounds is shoddy at best - most of these guys are lucky if they're career-backups.

The better philosophy is you ride with what brung ya, and if he runs you down the rabbit hole and to another woeful finish and Top 10 pick then you cut loose and start investing premium picks (i.e. 1st round picks) into the best QB prospects in the draft class.

If Rivers blows this year, then we're likely right back where we are (possibly picking even higher as teams like Pittsburgh and Baltimore likely rebound), which puts us in a position to make a move for Teddy Bridgewater, Derek Carr, Braxton Miller, or Johnny Manziel or Kevin Hogan whenever those latter two decide to come out. It's getting to the point (if it's not there already) where you don't win a Lombardi without a premium QB. And the odds definitively state that barring a worse than 1/100 shot, you don't find premium QB's in the middle rounds of the draft anymore.


I am disappoint LBC.

Be disappoint all you want. I'm not going to overlook a quality prospect just because he comes from a program I dislike.
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JammerHammer21


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see Miller as a future QB that will lead a franchise.
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Bohlmann20 (On The 95 Cleveland Browns Staff) wrote:
Lombardi - Isn't that the guy the trophy is named after? If so, top 3 coach of all time.

#JDI
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Duffman57


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
I'll say this: I see no point in a developmental QB. Let's be realistic here, how many developmental QB's (who weren't selected in the 1st round and sat behind an aging vet) have really found a ton of success in the modern NFL (last decade or so)?

- Matt Schaub, but he's still not the cog you want to build around.
- Matt Hasselbeck, again... without an elite running game he really wasn't much to worry about.
- Colt McCoy... ha!
- Colin Kaepernick - best example... and took a high 2nd round pick to acquire.

You're literally banking on the highly unlikely prospect of unearthing a Brady or Russell Wilson.

With the advent of the rookie wage scale and QB's being in such demand, the quality of "developmental" QB's available in the mid-to-late rounds is shoddy at best - most of these guys are lucky if they're career-backups.

The better philosophy is you ride with what brung ya, and if he runs you down the rabbit hole and to another woeful finish and Top 10 pick then you cut loose and start investing premium picks (i.e. 1st round picks) into the best QB prospects in the draft class.

If Rivers blows this year, then we're likely right back where we are (possibly picking even higher as teams like Pittsburgh and Baltimore likely rebound), which puts us in a position to make a move for Teddy Bridgewater, Derek Carr, Braxton Miller, or Johnny Manziel or Kevin Hogan whenever those latter two decide to come out. It's getting to the point (if it's not there already) where you don't win a Lombardi without a premium QB. And the odds definitively state that barring a worse than 1/100 shot, you don't find premium QB's in the middle rounds of the draft anymore.


Drew Brees was about the same as Kaep.
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Everything about Rivers is Awkward, reminiscent of a Giraffe with Down's Syndrome
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duffman57 wrote:
The LBC wrote:
I'll say this: I see no point in a developmental QB. Let's be realistic here, how many developmental QB's (who weren't selected in the 1st round and sat behind an aging vet) have really found a ton of success in the modern NFL (last decade or so)?

- Matt Schaub, but he's still not the cog you want to build around.
- Matt Hasselbeck, again... without an elite running game he really wasn't much to worry about.
- Colt McCoy... ha!
- Colin Kaepernick - best example... and took a high 2nd round pick to acquire.

You're literally banking on the highly unlikely prospect of unearthing a Brady or Russell Wilson.

With the advent of the rookie wage scale and QB's being in such demand, the quality of "developmental" QB's available in the mid-to-late rounds is shoddy at best - most of these guys are lucky if they're career-backups.

The better philosophy is you ride with what brung ya, and if he runs you down the rabbit hole and to another woeful finish and Top 10 pick then you cut loose and start investing premium picks (i.e. 1st round picks) into the best QB prospects in the draft class.

If Rivers blows this year, then we're likely right back where we are (possibly picking even higher as teams like Pittsburgh and Baltimore likely rebound), which puts us in a position to make a move for Teddy Bridgewater, Derek Carr, Braxton Miller, or Johnny Manziel or Kevin Hogan whenever those latter two decide to come out. It's getting to the point (if it's not there already) where you don't win a Lombardi without a premium QB. And the odds definitively state that barring a worse than 1/100 shot, you don't find premium QB's in the middle rounds of the draft anymore.


Drew Brees was about the same as Kaep.

Drew Brees was also picked 12 years ago when the "developmental" depth stretched a lot further into Day 2. Brees was the 2nd QB off the board... by today's standards he would have been taken inside the Top 15 easily, Top 10 most likely, and with a fair shot of being in the Top 5 (and I'm talking prospect Brees, not hindsight/knowing-what-we-know-now Brees).
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kramxel


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlonzoHarris wrote:
You know guys, I have seen Philip Rivers succeed even under all kinds of possible adversity before...
A bad offensive line, he has that for a while now... Running game lacking, as well...
Depleted wide receiver corps due to injury, remember when he was without Gates, Jackson and Floyd out injured and continued to be great with MacMichael, Ajirotutu and Glenn instead?

In the past, adversities with the Chargers were not excuses for Rivers production... On the contrary, the adversities were a reason for inflated stats...

You guys talk about him not being able to plant his feet for his throws and not possessing that rocket of an arm, but man... Rivers always had an awkward throwing motion, one that is shorter and quicker than the usual QB and that always worked very well for him.

Now, suddenly all of the same adversities he has endured for most of his career, have become the reasons why Rivers play hasn't been up to expectations.
I disagree with that... Rivers has been playing bad because of himself, that's the truth.
He used to be one of the best QB in the league as far as decision making goes... Now he's been throwing horrible picks, that leave you scratching your head trying to figure out what he had seen there.

I will hold off judgement for next season, with a new head coach in place, to see if Rivers can go back to his old self or not. Maybe that's all that he needs, a change and to me Norv Turner and AJ Smith firing was long overdue and maybe some of the players also thought that.

To me, this whole team is in need of a revitalization and I still think that they are better than their record indicates.


I have no doubt that part of the problem is actually Rivers' fault!

The whole Norv mentallity of not being accountable and ignoring bad play just took it's toll on Rivers.

People always say QBs need to have short memmories, but in reality, they still have to find a middle ground and be responsible for their mistakes.

At the start of this year, when the team (and Rivers) were playing bad, but still winning, you could hear that speach a lot: "It doesn't matter".

Well, it clearly does, and down the strech Rivers got worse and worse.
It wasn't until the media and fan pressure got so extensive, than he was forced to look at himself and realize he needed to play better.

For all of Norv's "genius", the guy sure doesn't know how to handle mentally tough sittuations, and help his players through it.

Players always like Norv because he relates and treats them on the same level, but ultimately a coach needs to be what the team needs him to be, and not a crowd pleaser.


With all that said, and getting back to Rivers, the O-line like you said, has been bad for years.... but this year it got even worse.

There wasn't a crucial 3rd down where Clary or Harris weren't letting a player get a shot at Rivers.
And those are true drive killers.

Harris was undrafted and clearly doesn't have the strength/quickness to perform at the next level, Clart has been a cancer for years, Green and Vasquez missed a lot of games....
You can't pick guys off the street and be successful.
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