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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:48 am    Post subject: Philip Rivers Reply with quote

I have talked about this a bit lately with one of my friends (Chargers fan), but when do you think the earliest it is that the Chargers should begin to look at potential replacements for him?

I'm not saying that he is bad or it should be soon but it seems like his skillset has declined a bit the last couple of years (I realize he has been doing a lot with little, but this is just my observation of him as an individual compared to where he was in his great/elite years ~2007-2010) and I think they should at least begin to look at a potential replacement in the third round this year (someone like Ryan Nassib or Zac Dysert that may fall to that area) to develop so if/when the wheels do fall off, either they have a guy ready to go or they know they need to get a new guy completely.

So:

- What do you think of Philip Rivers right now? Agree/Disagree his skillset is declining?

- Do you think you should begin to look at developmental replacement prospects for him?

- How much time do you believe he has left as a starting QB in San Diego?

- Who would you like as an eventual placement (either specific QBs, or a type of QB)?
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Boltstrikes


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2014. If he doesn't show something by the end of 2014 then we should move on.
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EverythingSF wrote:
But I do feel Alex is better than Rivers and we may as well not even argue over it here because I am pretty sure neither will change the others mind.
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MrDrew


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know there's rumors about Rivers, and his declining arm, but none of them are true. He never had an arm to begin with. He's still the leader of the team, he still has what it takes, and with a lot of OL help, he'll have the numbers everybody expects again.

The team drafts a QB late, or signs a UDFA, every year. Sometimes they don't work, others they get snagged off the PS. CBJ is a decent backup, so there's not an immediate need to draft a guy early. If a guy falls to the 3rd, and he should have gone in the 1st, sure.
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lakeroy


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He should start until we can see what he can do behind a competent Oline. Why anyone would try to judge him, when he has the likes of Michael Harris and Jeromey Clary "protecting" him, is beyond me.
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JammerHammer21


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrDrew wrote:
I know there's rumors about Rivers, and his declining arm, but none of them are true. He never had an arm to begin with. He's still the leader of the team, he still has what it takes, and with a lot of OL help, he'll have the numbers everybody expects again.

The team drafts a QB late, or signs a UDFA, every year. Sometimes they don't work, others they get snagged off the PS. CBJ is a decent backup, so there's not an immediate need to draft a guy early. If a guy falls to the 3rd, and he should have gone in the 1st, sure.


Even if his arm is the problem at times, it wouldn't look as bad if he had a pocket to step into to actually finish a throw.
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MrDrew


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JammerHammer21 wrote:
MrDrew wrote:
I know there's rumors about Rivers, and his declining arm, but none of them are true. He never had an arm to begin with. He's still the leader of the team, he still has what it takes, and with a lot of OL help, he'll have the numbers everybody expects again.

The team drafts a QB late, or signs a UDFA, every year. Sometimes they don't work, others they get snagged off the PS. CBJ is a decent backup, so there's not an immediate need to draft a guy early. If a guy falls to the 3rd, and he should have gone in the 1st, sure.


Even if his arm is the problem at times, it wouldn't look as bad if he had a pocket to step into to actually finish a throw.


That's the biggest problem. He doesn't have the big arm, so he needs to step up to throw deep. Trying to throw off his back foot makes thing look a lot worse.


I know people want to say how bad of a year he had, but going by the numbers, it wasn't.

64.1% 3606yds 26TD, 15INT. YPA was down, and fumbles were up. He also took 11 more sacks than any other time in his career.
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JammerHammer21


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrDrew wrote:
JammerHammer21 wrote:
MrDrew wrote:
I know there's rumors about Rivers, and his declining arm, but none of them are true. He never had an arm to begin with. He's still the leader of the team, he still has what it takes, and with a lot of OL help, he'll have the numbers everybody expects again.

The team drafts a QB late, or signs a UDFA, every year. Sometimes they don't work, others they get snagged off the PS. CBJ is a decent backup, so there's not an immediate need to draft a guy early. If a guy falls to the 3rd, and he should have gone in the 1st, sure.


Even if his arm is the problem at times, it wouldn't look as bad if he had a pocket to step into to actually finish a throw.


That's the biggest problem. He doesn't have the big arm, so he needs to step up to throw deep. Trying to throw off his back foot makes thing look a lot worse.


I know people want to say how bad of a year he had, but going by the numbers, it wasn't.

64.1% 3606yds 26TD, 15INT. YPA was down, and fumbles were up. He also took 11 more sacks than any other time in his career.


And even though people say he sucked (and while he wasn't great), those numbers would be considered good for a decent amount of QBs. Laughing If he can do that with a crap offensive line and crap playcalling, I think he could be pretty dang good again with even an average line and average playcalling. I think he really realizes he mistakes now, as evidenced by like 40+ throwaways.
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Lombardi - Isn't that the guy the trophy is named after? If so, top 3 coach of all time.

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Barkey88


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being said friend, I feel the need to defend myself. I don't believe that Rivers is regressing physically, I just don't think that he trusts any of the guys that are around him (besides Floyd and Gates) so he tries to make throws that he knows are stupid and are into double or triple coverage. Then he started playing a lot better near the end of the year when he would just throw it away instead of making those throws. If you think about when Rivers was putting up his best numbers, it was when he had a lot of threats around him like VJ and Sproles and a great line that would give him time. I think the chargers letting go of Sproles was a huge mistake due to his ability to catch the ball out of the backfield and the Rivers throws it to his backs more than anybody else in the league. If the Chargers can rebuild the line, give Rivers time to throw, and put some threats around him(would love to potentially see them take someone like Baily or Taevon but I know that wont happen) I think that he would go back to putting up the numbers he used to and they could hold off another 2 or 3 years before having to start to build up someone for the future.
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barkey88 wrote:
Being said friend, I feel the need to defend myself. I don't believe that Rivers is regressing physically, I just don't think that he trusts any of the guys that are around him (besides Floyd and Gates) so he tries to make throws that he knows are stupid and are into double or triple coverage. Then he started playing a lot better near the end of the year when he would just throw it away instead of making those throws. If you think about when Rivers was putting up his best numbers, it was when he had a lot of threats around him like VJ and Sproles and a great line that would give him time. I think the chargers letting go of Sproles was a huge mistake due to his ability to catch the ball out of the backfield and the Rivers throws it to his backs more than anybody else in the league. If the Chargers can rebuild the line, give Rivers time to throw, and put some threats around him(would love to potentially see them take someone like Baily or Taevon but I know that wont happen) I think that he would go back to putting up the numbers he used to and they could hold off another 2 or 3 years before having to start to build up someone for the future.


Yeah when Sproles was allowed to walk, I thought it was a mistake. I also think the Saints have used him exactly like how he should have been used in San Diego (at least more consistently).

I also like Danario Alexander if he can stay healthy, but that has been his main issue so far. I also still have high hopes for Vincent Brown at WR Ladarius Green at TE for you guys. There's enough depth at RB/WR that the Chargers should be able to add someone that can be productive if they wish to do so.
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MrDrew


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been hearing a little voice in my head that's been saying "If you fire Norv, fans will come". Wasn't sure what it meant until all of these new guys started showing up out of nowhere. It would actually be nice to have a fanbase for once.


Barkey88 wrote:
I think the chargers letting go of Sproles was a huge mistake due to his ability to catch the ball out of the backfield and the Rivers throws it to his backs more than anybody else in the league.


What was even more important than Sproles catching the ball, was him blocking. Rivers knew he could stand in there, and Sproles was going to keep him safe, despite Clary. Brown is good, but not nearly what Sporles is. You're definitely right about the trust issue. I don't think Rivers has ever trusted Clary, but Sproles kept him from being scared. Now he has nobody to trust.
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JammerHammer21


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrDrew wrote:
I've been hearing a little voice in my head that's been saying "If you fire Norv, fans will come". Wasn't sure what it meant until all of these new guys started showing up out of nowhere. It would actually be nice to have a fanbase for once.


Barkey88 wrote:
I think the chargers letting go of Sproles was a huge mistake due to his ability to catch the ball out of the backfield and the Rivers throws it to his backs more than anybody else in the league.


What was even more important than Sproles catching the ball, was him blocking. Rivers knew he could stand in there, and Sproles was going to keep him safe, despite Clary. Brown is good, but not nearly what Sporles is. You're definitely right about the trust issue. I don't think Rivers has ever trusted Clary, but Sproles kept him from being scared. Now he has nobody to trust.


Yep, Sproles was an elite blocker despite being a midget. He was almost a better blocker than runner at the end. Laughing
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game3525


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrDrew wrote:
I've been hearing a little voice in my head that's been saying "If you fire Norv, fans will come". Wasn't sure what it meant until all of these new guys started showing up out of nowhere. It would actually be nice to have a fanbase for once.


Barkey88 wrote:
I think the chargers letting go of Sproles was a huge mistake due to his ability to catch the ball out of the backfield and the Rivers throws it to his backs more than anybody else in the league.


What was even more important than Sproles catching the ball, was him blocking. Rivers knew he could stand in there, and Sproles was going to keep him safe, despite Clary. Brown is good, but not nearly what Sporles is. You're definitely right about the trust issue. I don't think Rivers has ever trusted Clary, but Sproles kept him from being scared. Now he has nobody to trust.


Yeah, it is clear that Rivers doesn't trust either Clary or Harris. I mean his willingness to stand in the pocket is night and day when Gaither or even McNeill was playing the left side.
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Barkey88


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

game3525 wrote:
MrDrew wrote:
I've been hearing a little voice in my head that's been saying "If you fire Norv, fans will come". Wasn't sure what it meant until all of these new guys started showing up out of nowhere. It would actually be nice to have a fanbase for once.


Barkey88 wrote:
I think the chargers letting go of Sproles was a huge mistake due to his ability to catch the ball out of the backfield and the Rivers throws it to his backs more than anybody else in the league.


What was even more important than Sproles catching the ball, was him blocking. Rivers knew he could stand in there, and Sproles was going to keep him safe, despite Clary. Brown is good, but not nearly what Sporles is. You're definitely right about the trust issue. I don't think Rivers has ever trusted Clary, but Sproles kept him from being scared. Now he has nobody to trust.


Yeah, it is clear that Rivers doesn't trust either Clary or Harris. I mean his willingness to stand in the pocket is night and day when Gaither or even McNeill was playing the left side.


And Rivers plays horrible outside of the pocket, which is what he has been forced to do a lot lately. Hence all of the Interceptions and then throwaways.
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sanitizer


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get in some heated discussions with friends as well (albeit some serious bandwagon jumpers) and I think a lot of the issues, and problems people have with judging players their unfamiliar with is that fantasy football comes into play. Its the easiest and fastest way to get a "judgement" on a player. Which is absolutely obsurd (spelling?)

Phil is the only reason we have any type of an offence. Norv didn't help, the O-Line is essentially working with the opponent, and chemistry and timing with receivers is absolutely massive in this league.

I agree with most guys on here, QB of the future isn't a need whatsoever right now, the pressing need on the line is too overwhelming to even think about a rookie, or inexperienced QB playing behind that heap of poop.
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Boltstrikes


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrDrew wrote:
I've been hearing a little voice in my head that's been saying "If you fire Norv, fans will come". Wasn't sure what it meant until all of these new guys started showing up out of nowhere. It would actually be nice to have a fanbase for once.


How do we keep the new ones? Is tying them up like I wanted to with AJ an option?
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But I do feel Alex is better than Rivers and we may as well not even argue over it here because I am pretty sure neither will change the others mind.
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