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Superman(DH23)


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

green24 wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
EVERY COACH IN THE NFL HIRES PEOPLE THEY HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH. I for the life of me have never figured out why Bears fans think this is exclusive to Lovie.

Exactly. The spoils system is not a new thing in the NFL.
Its not a new thing in life, I have no idea why people are shocked when it happens in football.
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Giantsfan80


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trentwannabe wrote:
Bill Belichick was 36-44 as a HC with the Browns, the Patriots did their homework, didn't listen to ignorant fans, and made a great decisions. Am I saying Marrone is Belichick? Absolutely not. But the truth is, the people doing the interviewing know a lot more then any of us do about these guys, and it goes WAY beyond the stats of win loss record and playoff appearances. It comes down to actual coaching and fundamentals.


Same people that believe Chip Kelly is a rousing success in the NFL. Already. Truth is, Chip Kelly has an "innovative mind" because he has the talent on hand to be "innovative". You better damn well believe he wouldnt be so innovative at Syracuse with this talent...and he will not have a fraction of the speed to work with in the NFL.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trentwannabe wrote:
Bill Belichick was 36-44 as a HC with the Browns, the Patriots did their homework, didn't listen to ignorant fans, and made a great decisions. Am I saying Marrone is Belichick? Absolutely not. But the truth is, the people doing the interviewing know a lot more then any of us do about these guys, and it goes WAY beyond the stats of win loss record and playoff appearances. It comes down to actual coaching and fundamentals.


The truth is that those people get it wrong just as often as they get it right an that Belichick is more of an exception than the rule.

That all said, this isn't the case of a Belichick. Marrone hasn't coached in the NFL as a HC. He obviously proved enough to Buffalo at Syracuse with his NFL background that they felt he was the best guy for the job after his interview. I wish him the best of luck. Would love to see the Bills take the Patriots down.

Giantsfan80 wrote:
I want you to stop and consider something...he developed that QB. From 2 star obscurity. Vandy has one of the more underrated RB's in college football and a US Army recruit backing him up. While we're comparing apples to oranges...maybe both guys simply can coach. I know u have an answer for everything and feel you are Gods gift to armchair football, but stop on this one.


I'm sure he developed that QB but his recruit rating has nothing to do with it. Without the talent, work ethic and intelligence, Marrone would have nothing to develop.

Who recruited the US Army recruit(Kimbrow)?

I have no doubt both guys can coach. My point is that Marrone didn't do something that we haven't seen before. So yea, I certainly have questions about the hire when you had a more proven candidate.

That said, Marrone will have his chance to prove himself. He has good talent in Buffalo, lets see if he can get it done.

EDIT: And as usual, you're not mature enough to have a conversation without flinging insults. You're going to need to outgrow that or you'll end up getting banned.
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Gene


Joined: 03 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
Gene wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
Gene wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
This is such a Bills move. I really hope it works out but I don't know how you pass on Lovie Smith for Marrone. Jesus, Bills.
Probably because Lovie has proven to be a terrible in-game coach. We're talking about the guy who called a timeout to allow the Seahawks a chance to take a hail mary in the last 2 seconds of a tied playoff game when they were out of TOs themselves!


That terrible in game coach took his team to a Super Bowl with Rex Grossman, 4 10+ win seasons in 9 years, a .500 career playoff record and a .563 career winning percentage. Basically, he's a pretty good HC.

And you passed on him for a guy who was 25-25 in his career at Syracuse.

Sorry, made no sense to me. Lovie is a proven HC that can build a great defense and win you games. I don't understand why you'd pass on that. His players all loved him too. This guy is like Dungy, only needs the right offense and he can build a perennial contender.

I do hope Marrone works out because I like the Bills but I really feel they made a mistake here.
I didn't pass on anyone. I'm not a Bills fan. Cool

Looks up Syracuse before Marrone got there, though. 25-25 is miraculous. I wouldn't have thought Vince Lombardi could have done that. The HC before him basically burned the roster to the ground and made it the joke of college football.

Lovie Smith: made the playoffs only 3 times in 9 years.
Lovie Smith: got to select three offensive coordinators. Failed to find one worth a damn.
Lovie Smith: insisted on building a run-first offense in a pass-first league for his first 5 years.
Lovie Smith: Second-worst clock management HC in the league.
Lovie Smith: worst challenge win/loss % in his time as a HC.
Lovie Smith: Builder of GOOD defense. not elite. Good.
Lovie Smith: not such a great playcaller. Was ordered by GM not to call plays himself after the 2009 debacle.
Lovie Smith: the guy responsible for using second and third round picks on Dan Bazuin and Jarron Gilbert (yep, not all of the Bears crappy picks were on Angelo).
Lovie Smith: the guy who sent a second round pick off to Tampa for a quickly-deceased DE that was already a bust.
Lovie Smith: huge practitioner of nepotism. See Babich, Drake, his own son.

From another board, so I don't have to describe it:

Quote:
I get that you guys wanted Lovie Smith. Lemme tell you a little story that will shed some light on just how good of an in-game coach he is...

2006, Divisional Round Playoff Game vs. Seahawks.
4th down, Seahawks around midfield. Game is tied at 24 with 2 seconds left in regulation. Seahawks have no timeouts and not enough time to get to the line and run a Hail Mary, so they're walking off the field to prepare for overtime.

LOVIE SMITH CALLS TIME OUT.

Hasselbeck attempts a Hail Mary to Nate Burleson. Luckily, he does not connect. The Bears go on to win it with a field goal in OT.

After the game, Lovie is asked about the time out one time with no follow-up. His response is basically "HURR DURR I WANTED THEM TO PUNT TO HESTER TO SEE IF HE COULD RUN ONE BACK."

If Seattle's Hail Mary had worked, everyone would remember this as the single dumbest in-game decision made by an NFL head coach, EVER. The man would have never gotten another Head Coach interview.
1. Wrong, he hired 2, Martz when he was the only person in the world who would accept the job b/c of the clear instability at HH at the time, the other Tice who was universally lauded and no one in their right mind would have guessed that an OL coach, who had been a run game coordinator at his previous stop would simply refuse to run the football. Terry Shea was hired by Jerry Angelo BEFORE Lovie Smith ever took the job. Ron Turner, his replacement, was Jerry Angelo's hand picked OC. Following the SuperBowl in 2006 Lovie rec'd the power to hire/fire his coaches as he saw fit.

2. This is entirely your opinion

3. I'd say the 2005, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2012 defenses would clearly prove you wrong

4. Wrong again, Lovie took over the defensive playcalling duties, against his own wishes in 2009, he intended Marinelli to be the DC, but he refused. Following the 2009 season Marinelli agreed to take over the DC role, was never ordered by Angelo to stop calling plays

5. While no one will ever really know who was responsible for which picks, the GM is responsible for all of them, he has the final say, and I find it very tough to believe that Lovie Smith wanted a player in Jarron Gilbert who didn't fit his scheme, or that he wanted that player and then NEVER played him. Henry Melton on the other hand is a known Lovie Smith pick from that draft.

6. EVERY COACH IN THE NFL HIRES PEOPLE THEY HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH. I for the life of me have never figured out why Bears fans think this is exclusive to Lovie.

Now as for the Seattle situation, it was a bad decision, it was tie game that was about to head into overtime. Hester had won several games for the Bears that year, they wanted to give him a shot to do it again.

Let's start with the last thing. Of course he wanted Hester to get another return...BUT WHY WOULD SEATTLE KICK THE BALL INSTEAD OF JUST THROWING IT AS TIME RAN OUT? There was never a chance that they'd punt. He gave them one free play to try to win the game on. That timeout had a 0% chance of being beneficial to the Bears unless they intercepted the pass! The only way they would kick it would be if Mike Holmgren were even dumber than Lovie, which he clearly is not.

Now, back to the first point:

Reference regarding Lovie hiring own coordinators:
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-12-31/sports/chi-chicago-bears-fire-coach-lovie-smith-2012_1_bears-offensive-coordinator-offensive-identity-mike-martz

Sorry, looked like he picked Shea, too. So that's all four on Lovie.

Here's JA asserting that Lovie had control over his own coaches at least as early as the offseason prior to 2005:
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2005-01-04/sports/0501040235_1_jerry-angelo-bears-smith

Here's a reference to Terry Shea being hired by Lovie. This one's from January of 2004.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2004-01-26/sports/0401260202_1_terry-shea-ron-rivera-approval

More proof that Shea was not hired before Lovie:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1708770
Lovie hired 1/15/04, says what kind of offense he would like to run, zero references to Terry Shea yet.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/bears/2004-01-22-shea-hired_x.htm
Shea hired 1/21/04, article includes reference to Lovie making the call, nice quote from Lovie: ("Terry is someone I had in mind all along," said Smith, who came to the Bears from the St. Louis Rams, whose offense had similarities to the Chiefs.)

Lovie admitting to making the decision to fire Shea, proving that he had control over his assistants. A few paragraphs later, he admits to making a poor decision when HIRING Shea. Took all of the blame for himself:
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2005-01-05/sports/0501050309_1_jerry-angelo-smith-terry-shea

I'm just going to stop there and not bother refuting any more, because

a) it took way too much time to dig up 8 year old crap and look for references.
b) I looked around the forum some more before moving on to the rest of that laundry list and found out that you're kind of a Lovie apologist to the point of hilarity and I'm sure you'll just say "NUH UH" to whatever I say, anyway. Seriously, duder. It sounds like he's your favorite uncle or something. :/
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Giantsfan80


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its not insults...its truly how you carry yourself. And its mind-boggling how one can carry such a huge ego around a message board. I can deal with a ban...i mostly use twitter anyway. Minus me you can fling all the propaganda you like and only get patted for it. Im sure youre rooting for it Laughing
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Superman(DH23)


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gene wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
Gene wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
Gene wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
This is such a Bills move. I really hope it works out but I don't know how you pass on Lovie Smith for Marrone. Jesus, Bills.
Probably because Lovie has proven to be a terrible in-game coach. We're talking about the guy who called a timeout to allow the Seahawks a chance to take a hail mary in the last 2 seconds of a tied playoff game when they were out of TOs themselves!


That terrible in game coach took his team to a Super Bowl with Rex Grossman, 4 10+ win seasons in 9 years, a .500 career playoff record and a .563 career winning percentage. Basically, he's a pretty good HC.

And you passed on him for a guy who was 25-25 in his career at Syracuse.

Sorry, made no sense to me. Lovie is a proven HC that can build a great defense and win you games. I don't understand why you'd pass on that. His players all loved him too. This guy is like Dungy, only needs the right offense and he can build a perennial contender.

I do hope Marrone works out because I like the Bills but I really feel they made a mistake here.
I didn't pass on anyone. I'm not a Bills fan. Cool

Looks up Syracuse before Marrone got there, though. 25-25 is miraculous. I wouldn't have thought Vince Lombardi could have done that. The HC before him basically burned the roster to the ground and made it the joke of college football.

Lovie Smith: made the playoffs only 3 times in 9 years.
Lovie Smith: got to select three offensive coordinators. Failed to find one worth a damn.
Lovie Smith: insisted on building a run-first offense in a pass-first league for his first 5 years.
Lovie Smith: Second-worst clock management HC in the league.
Lovie Smith: worst challenge win/loss % in his time as a HC.
Lovie Smith: Builder of GOOD defense. not elite. Good.
Lovie Smith: not such a great playcaller. Was ordered by GM not to call plays himself after the 2009 debacle.
Lovie Smith: the guy responsible for using second and third round picks on Dan Bazuin and Jarron Gilbert (yep, not all of the Bears crappy picks were on Angelo).
Lovie Smith: the guy who sent a second round pick off to Tampa for a quickly-deceased DE that was already a bust.
Lovie Smith: huge practitioner of nepotism. See Babich, Drake, his own son.

From another board, so I don't have to describe it:

Quote:
I get that you guys wanted Lovie Smith. Lemme tell you a little story that will shed some light on just how good of an in-game coach he is...

2006, Divisional Round Playoff Game vs. Seahawks.
4th down, Seahawks around midfield. Game is tied at 24 with 2 seconds left in regulation. Seahawks have no timeouts and not enough time to get to the line and run a Hail Mary, so they're walking off the field to prepare for overtime.

LOVIE SMITH CALLS TIME OUT.

Hasselbeck attempts a Hail Mary to Nate Burleson. Luckily, he does not connect. The Bears go on to win it with a field goal in OT.

After the game, Lovie is asked about the time out one time with no follow-up. His response is basically "HURR DURR I WANTED THEM TO PUNT TO HESTER TO SEE IF HE COULD RUN ONE BACK."

If Seattle's Hail Mary had worked, everyone would remember this as the single dumbest in-game decision made by an NFL head coach, EVER. The man would have never gotten another Head Coach interview.
1. Wrong, he hired 2, Martz when he was the only person in the world who would accept the job b/c of the clear instability at HH at the time, the other Tice who was universally lauded and no one in their right mind would have guessed that an OL coach, who had been a run game coordinator at his previous stop would simply refuse to run the football. Terry Shea was hired by Jerry Angelo BEFORE Lovie Smith ever took the job. Ron Turner, his replacement, was Jerry Angelo's hand picked OC. Following the SuperBowl in 2006 Lovie rec'd the power to hire/fire his coaches as he saw fit.

2. This is entirely your opinion

3. I'd say the 2005, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2012 defenses would clearly prove you wrong

4. Wrong again, Lovie took over the defensive playcalling duties, against his own wishes in 2009, he intended Marinelli to be the DC, but he refused. Following the 2009 season Marinelli agreed to take over the DC role, was never ordered by Angelo to stop calling plays

5. While no one will ever really know who was responsible for which picks, the GM is responsible for all of them, he has the final say, and I find it very tough to believe that Lovie Smith wanted a player in Jarron Gilbert who didn't fit his scheme, or that he wanted that player and then NEVER played him. Henry Melton on the other hand is a known Lovie Smith pick from that draft.

6. EVERY COACH IN THE NFL HIRES PEOPLE THEY HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH. I for the life of me have never figured out why Bears fans think this is exclusive to Lovie.

Now as for the Seattle situation, it was a bad decision, it was tie game that was about to head into overtime. Hester had won several games for the Bears that year, they wanted to give him a shot to do it again.

Let's start with the last thing. Of course he wanted Hester to get another return...BUT WHY WOULD SEATTLE KICK THE BALL INSTEAD OF JUST THROWING IT AS TIME RAN OUT? There was never a chance that they'd punt. He gave them one free play to try to win the game on. That timeout had a 0% chance of being beneficial to the Bears unless they intercepted the pass! The only way they would kick it would be if Mike Holmgren were even dumber than Lovie, which he clearly is not.

Now, back to the first point:

Reference regarding Lovie hiring own coordinators:
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-12-31/sports/chi-chicago-bears-fire-coach-lovie-smith-2012_1_bears-offensive-coordinator-offensive-identity-mike-martz

Sorry, looked like he picked Shea, too. So that's all four on Lovie.

Here's JA asserting that Lovie had control over his own coaches at least as early as the offseason prior to 2005:
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2005-01-04/sports/0501040235_1_jerry-angelo-bears-smith

Here's a reference to Terry Shea being hired by Lovie. This one's from January of 2004.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2004-01-26/sports/0401260202_1_terry-shea-ron-rivera-approval

More proof that Shea was not hired before Lovie:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1708770
Lovie hired 1/15/04, says what kind of offense he would like to run, zero references to Terry Shea yet.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/bears/2004-01-22-shea-hired_x.htm
Shea hired 1/21/04, article includes reference to Lovie making the call, nice quote from Lovie: ("Terry is someone I had in mind all along," said Smith, who came to the Bears from the St. Louis Rams, whose offense had similarities to the Chiefs.)

Lovie admitting to making the decision to fire Shea, proving that he had control over his assistants. A few paragraphs later, he admits to making a poor decision when HIRING Shea. Took all of the blame for himself:
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2005-01-05/sports/0501050309_1_jerry-angelo-smith-terry-shea

I'm just going to stop there and not bother refuting any more, because

a) it took way too much time to dig up 8 year old crap and look for references.
b) I looked around the forum some more before moving on to the rest of that laundry list and found out that you're kind of a Lovie apologist to the point of hilarity and I'm sure you'll just say "NUH UH" to whatever I say, anyway. Seriously, duder. It sounds like he's your favorite uncle or something. :/
b/c you can't but anyways, lets' start w/ your articles

1. I have no idea why you linked this one other than a reference that Lovie had 4 OCs, yeah he did, never disputed it. I said he only chose 2, which is the truth, but let's drive on shall we

2. This is a link to the results of a poll, where it says the Lovie hired his coordinators. However both Ron Rivera and Terry Shea were interviewed by Jerry Angelo not Lovie Smith. Lovie was hired and given those coordinators and then when he was asked said he approved of those hires. We know for a fact that at least 1 of those he didn't really want but was forced on him for 2 years regardless of the differences in philosophies

3.
Quote:
"Lovie's responsible for his staff," Angelo said when the issue of Shea came up. "Lovie and I will talk through everything each and every year about every phase and asset of our program."


I'm sure this is what you are hanging your hat on here, Angelo saying Lovie is responsible for his staff, well no duh, the HC is responsible for everyone on the team, doesn't change the fact that per the provisions of Lovie's first contract w/ the Chicago Bears Jerry Angelo's decisions on assistant coaches were final.

4. Again you seem to be completely ignoring the fact the Lovie interviewed neither Ron Rivera or Terry Shea, those interviews were conducted solely by Jerry Angelo

5. Did Lovie make the decision to fire Shea yes, b/c he's not an idiot, but you keep seeming to not realize that JERRY ANGELO HAD TO ACTUALLY FIRE HIM. In theory Lovie could have walked into Jerry's office and said "Jerry, Terry has to go, he's not the guy I thought we were getting" and Jerry could have said, well it's my call and I think we have to give him another year. Instead Jerry said "OK, that's fine, I'm bringing in Ron Turner to replace him. I've worked with him before he'll be a good OC for you.

Its widely known throughout Beardom that Lovie's power he so craved was the ability to hire/fire his staff b/c he wanted Ron Rivera out. That was the whole purpose behind it, if he had that power to begin w/, Ron Rivera would have never been hired, but you continually ignore that fact and push the whole "but, but, but he had 4 OCs angle."

I strongly suggest you actually read articles before you post them from here on out

Oh and I'm not a Lovie apologist, I'm a Lovie factist as people continue to spew the stupidest things about the 3rd winningest coach in the history of the oldest franchise in the NFL and pretend he's not a good coach.
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green24


Joined: 10 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
green24 wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
EVERY COACH IN THE NFL HIRES PEOPLE THEY HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH. I for the life of me have never figured out why Bears fans think this is exclusive to Lovie.

Exactly. The spoils system is not a new thing in the NFL.
Its not a new thing in life, I have no idea why people are shocked when it happens in football.

It's been going on since 1829 and it's not going away any time soon.
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Gene


Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 91
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
Gene wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
Gene wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
Gene wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
This is such a Bills move. I really hope it works out but I don't know how you pass on Lovie Smith for Marrone. Jesus, Bills.
Probably because Lovie has proven to be a terrible in-game coach. We're talking about the guy who called a timeout to allow the Seahawks a chance to take a hail mary in the last 2 seconds of a tied playoff game when they were out of TOs themselves!


That terrible in game coach took his team to a Super Bowl with Rex Grossman, 4 10+ win seasons in 9 years, a .500 career playoff record and a .563 career winning percentage. Basically, he's a pretty good HC.

And you passed on him for a guy who was 25-25 in his career at Syracuse.

Sorry, made no sense to me. Lovie is a proven HC that can build a great defense and win you games. I don't understand why you'd pass on that. His players all loved him too. This guy is like Dungy, only needs the right offense and he can build a perennial contender.

I do hope Marrone works out because I like the Bills but I really feel they made a mistake here.
I didn't pass on anyone. I'm not a Bills fan. Cool

Looks up Syracuse before Marrone got there, though. 25-25 is miraculous. I wouldn't have thought Vince Lombardi could have done that. The HC before him basically burned the roster to the ground and made it the joke of college football.

Lovie Smith: made the playoffs only 3 times in 9 years.
Lovie Smith: got to select three offensive coordinators. Failed to find one worth a damn.
Lovie Smith: insisted on building a run-first offense in a pass-first league for his first 5 years.
Lovie Smith: Second-worst clock management HC in the league.
Lovie Smith: worst challenge win/loss % in his time as a HC.
Lovie Smith: Builder of GOOD defense. not elite. Good.
Lovie Smith: not such a great playcaller. Was ordered by GM not to call plays himself after the 2009 debacle.
Lovie Smith: the guy responsible for using second and third round picks on Dan Bazuin and Jarron Gilbert (yep, not all of the Bears crappy picks were on Angelo).
Lovie Smith: the guy who sent a second round pick off to Tampa for a quickly-deceased DE that was already a bust.
Lovie Smith: huge practitioner of nepotism. See Babich, Drake, his own son.

From another board, so I don't have to describe it:

Quote:
I get that you guys wanted Lovie Smith. Lemme tell you a little story that will shed some light on just how good of an in-game coach he is...

2006, Divisional Round Playoff Game vs. Seahawks.
4th down, Seahawks around midfield. Game is tied at 24 with 2 seconds left in regulation. Seahawks have no timeouts and not enough time to get to the line and run a Hail Mary, so they're walking off the field to prepare for overtime.

LOVIE SMITH CALLS TIME OUT.

Hasselbeck attempts a Hail Mary to Nate Burleson. Luckily, he does not connect. The Bears go on to win it with a field goal in OT.

After the game, Lovie is asked about the time out one time with no follow-up. His response is basically "HURR DURR I WANTED THEM TO PUNT TO HESTER TO SEE IF HE COULD RUN ONE BACK."

If Seattle's Hail Mary had worked, everyone would remember this as the single dumbest in-game decision made by an NFL head coach, EVER. The man would have never gotten another Head Coach interview.
1. Wrong, he hired 2, Martz when he was the only person in the world who would accept the job b/c of the clear instability at HH at the time, the other Tice who was universally lauded and no one in their right mind would have guessed that an OL coach, who had been a run game coordinator at his previous stop would simply refuse to run the football. Terry Shea was hired by Jerry Angelo BEFORE Lovie Smith ever took the job. Ron Turner, his replacement, was Jerry Angelo's hand picked OC. Following the SuperBowl in 2006 Lovie rec'd the power to hire/fire his coaches as he saw fit.

2. This is entirely your opinion

3. I'd say the 2005, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2012 defenses would clearly prove you wrong

4. Wrong again, Lovie took over the defensive playcalling duties, against his own wishes in 2009, he intended Marinelli to be the DC, but he refused. Following the 2009 season Marinelli agreed to take over the DC role, was never ordered by Angelo to stop calling plays

5. While no one will ever really know who was responsible for which picks, the GM is responsible for all of them, he has the final say, and I find it very tough to believe that Lovie Smith wanted a player in Jarron Gilbert who didn't fit his scheme, or that he wanted that player and then NEVER played him. Henry Melton on the other hand is a known Lovie Smith pick from that draft.

6. EVERY COACH IN THE NFL HIRES PEOPLE THEY HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH. I for the life of me have never figured out why Bears fans think this is exclusive to Lovie.

Now as for the Seattle situation, it was a bad decision, it was tie game that was about to head into overtime. Hester had won several games for the Bears that year, they wanted to give him a shot to do it again.

Let's start with the last thing. Of course he wanted Hester to get another return...BUT WHY WOULD SEATTLE KICK THE BALL INSTEAD OF JUST THROWING IT AS TIME RAN OUT? There was never a chance that they'd punt. He gave them one free play to try to win the game on. That timeout had a 0% chance of being beneficial to the Bears unless they intercepted the pass! The only way they would kick it would be if Mike Holmgren were even dumber than Lovie, which he clearly is not.

Now, back to the first point:

Reference regarding Lovie hiring own coordinators:
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-12-31/sports/chi-chicago-bears-fire-coach-lovie-smith-2012_1_bears-offensive-coordinator-offensive-identity-mike-martz

Sorry, looked like he picked Shea, too. So that's all four on Lovie.

Here's JA asserting that Lovie had control over his own coaches at least as early as the offseason prior to 2005:
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2005-01-04/sports/0501040235_1_jerry-angelo-bears-smith

Here's a reference to Terry Shea being hired by Lovie. This one's from January of 2004.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2004-01-26/sports/0401260202_1_terry-shea-ron-rivera-approval

More proof that Shea was not hired before Lovie:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1708770
Lovie hired 1/15/04, says what kind of offense he would like to run, zero references to Terry Shea yet.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/bears/2004-01-22-shea-hired_x.htm
Shea hired 1/21/04, article includes reference to Lovie making the call, nice quote from Lovie: ("Terry is someone I had in mind all along," said Smith, who came to the Bears from the St. Louis Rams, whose offense had similarities to the Chiefs.)

Lovie admitting to making the decision to fire Shea, proving that he had control over his assistants. A few paragraphs later, he admits to making a poor decision when HIRING Shea. Took all of the blame for himself:
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2005-01-05/sports/0501050309_1_jerry-angelo-smith-terry-shea

I'm just going to stop there and not bother refuting any more, because

a) it took way too much time to dig up 8 year old crap and look for references.
b) I looked around the forum some more before moving on to the rest of that laundry list and found out that you're kind of a Lovie apologist to the point of hilarity and I'm sure you'll just say "NUH UH" to whatever I say, anyway. Seriously, duder. It sounds like he's your favorite uncle or something. :/
b/c you can't but anyways, lets' start w/ your articles

1. I have no idea why you linked this one other than a reference that Lovie had 4 OCs, yeah he did, never disputed it. I said he only chose 2, which is the truth, but let's drive on shall we

2. This is a link to the results of a poll, where it says the Lovie hired his coordinators. However both Ron Rivera and Terry Shea were interviewed by Jerry Angelo not Lovie Smith. Lovie was hired and given those coordinators and then when he was asked said he approved of those hires. We know for a fact that at least 1 of those he didn't really want but was forced on him for 2 years regardless of the differences in philosophies

3.
Quote:
"Lovie's responsible for his staff," Angelo said when the issue of Shea came up. "Lovie and I will talk through everything each and every year about every phase and asset of our program."


I'm sure this is what you are hanging your hat on here, Angelo saying Lovie is responsible for his staff, well no duh, the HC is responsible for everyone on the team, doesn't change the fact that per the provisions of Lovie's first contract w/ the Chicago Bears Jerry Angelo's decisions on assistant coaches were final.

4. Again you seem to be completely ignoring the fact the Lovie interviewed neither Ron Rivera or Terry Shea, those interviews were conducted solely by Jerry Angelo

5. Did Lovie make the decision to fire Shea yes, b/c he's not an idiot, but you keep seeming to not realize that JERRY ANGELO HAD TO ACTUALLY FIRE HIM. In theory Lovie could have walked into Jerry's office and said "Jerry, Terry has to go, he's not the guy I thought we were getting" and Jerry could have said, well it's my call and I think we have to give him another year. Instead Jerry said "OK, that's fine, I'm bringing in Ron Turner to replace him. I've worked with him before he'll be a good OC for you.

Its widely known throughout Beardom that Lovie's power he so craved was the ability to hire/fire his staff b/c he wanted Ron Rivera out. That was the whole purpose behind it, if he had that power to begin w/, Ron Rivera would have never been hired, but you continually ignore that fact and push the whole "but, but, but he had 4 OCs angle."

I strongly suggest you actually read articles before you post them from here on out

Oh and I'm not a Lovie apologist, I'm a Lovie factist as people continue to spew the stupidest things about the 3rd winningest coach in the history of the oldest franchise in the NFL and pretend he's not a good coach.


Lovie hired Terry Shea, said so himself:
Quote:
"I didn't get it right the first time. We'll get it right this time."


Again, you claimed that Jerry Angelo hired Terry Shea before Lovie Smith. Lovie was 1/15/04. Shea was almost a week later...and Lovie even claimed the hiring as his own. One of those articles said that Angelo's pick when Turner got hired was Peter Vaas.

Lovie fired Terry Shea, said so himself:
Quote:

"I took everything into consideration," Smith said, without getting specific. "When you're dealing with a good man, and good coach like Terry is, something has to be done. I'd like to see the offense go in a different direction. It's not a happy day."


Regarding Rivera, now that you bring him up, here is an article about She'a hiring (again clearly stated to be after that of Lovie) in which it says that Rivera was scheduled to interview...WITH LOVIE. No mention of Jerry Angelo there. Just Lovie. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2004-01-22/news/0401220458_1_halas-hall-bears-ron-rivera

Quote:
Bears coach Lovie Smith will continue to interview assistants throughout the week, zeroing in on defensive coordinator next.


I was right. I provided references. You went with the "Nuh uh" response and did not bother to do the same. Sad

Not going to continue this. It's obviously futile in the face of blind love for Lovie and an overwhelming desire to absolve him of his failures.
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GOGRIESE


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great a Lovie Smith debate Rolling Eyes
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jsnydes


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So anyway, who do you guys think he will bring in as assistants. Doug Marrone that is. Not Lovie Smith. Laughing
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^^^^^^^
here's a video from csn talking about how jerry angelo hired the assistants when Lovie was hired. Specifically also referencing how nobody wanted the OC job b/c of what was going on at HH in 2009.

http://www.csnchicago.com/sportsnetChicago/search/v/68545758/ctl-on-whether-the-bears-will-make-the-playoffs.htm?

And now I'm done w/ this discussion w/ you b/c I'm pretty sure you weren't following the whole situation 10 years ago like I was. I remember how odd it was that coordinators were being interviewed by the GM before he had hired an HC. I also remember the Lovie statement of his "approval" of the hires after they were hired, which is where the whole "Terry Shea was the guy I had in mind in the first place" thing came from. And yet you've still failed to dispute anything else I wrote b/c, once again, you can't.
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jsnydes wrote:
So anyway, who do you guys think he will bring in as assistants. Doug Marrone that is. Not Lovie Smith. Laughing
Sorry, I'm done hijacking your thread. Laughing

I imagine most of his staff will be made up of his college staff.
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Gene


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
^^^^^^^^^
here's a video from csn talking about how jerry angelo hired the assistants when Lovie was hired. Specifically also referencing how nobody wanted the OC job b/c of what was going on at HH in 2009.

http://www.csnchicago.com/sportsnetChicago/search/v/68545758/ctl-on-whether-the-bears-will-make-the-playoffs.htm?

And now I'm done w/ this discussion w/ you b/c I'm pretty sure you weren't following the whole situation 10 years ago like I was. I remember how odd it was that coordinators were being interviewed by the GM before he had hired an HC. I also remember the Lovie statement of his "approval" of the hires after they were hired, which is where the whole "Terry Shea was the guy I had in mind in the first place" thing came from. And yet you've still failed to dispute anything else I wrote b/c, once again, you can't.
I showed you Lovie Smith himself claiming he did the hiring. You're taking the word of whoever is on that video that doesn't even play?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gene wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
^^^^^^^^^
here's a video from csn talking about how jerry angelo hired the assistants when Lovie was hired. Specifically also referencing how nobody wanted the OC job b/c of what was going on at HH in 2009.

http://www.csnchicago.com/sportsnetChicago/search/v/68545758/ctl-on-whether-the-bears-will-make-the-playoffs.htm?

And now I'm done w/ this discussion w/ you b/c I'm pretty sure you weren't following the whole situation 10 years ago like I was. I remember how odd it was that coordinators were being interviewed by the GM before he had hired an HC. I also remember the Lovie statement of his "approval" of the hires after they were hired, which is where the whole "Terry Shea was the guy I had in mind in the first place" thing came from. And yet you've still failed to dispute anything else I wrote b/c, once again, you can't.
I showed you Lovie Smith himself claiming he did the hiring. You're taking the word of whoever is on that video that doesn't even play?
click the transcript button and read it then, and if you want to continue the discussion PM, we've done enough in this thread that's not about Lovie
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Gene


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
Gene wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
^^^^^^^^^
here's a video from csn talking about how jerry angelo hired the assistants when Lovie was hired. Specifically also referencing how nobody wanted the OC job b/c of what was going on at HH in 2009.

http://www.csnchicago.com/sportsnetChicago/search/v/68545758/ctl-on-whether-the-bears-will-make-the-playoffs.htm?

And now I'm done w/ this discussion w/ you b/c I'm pretty sure you weren't following the whole situation 10 years ago like I was. I remember how odd it was that coordinators were being interviewed by the GM before he had hired an HC. I also remember the Lovie statement of his "approval" of the hires after they were hired, which is where the whole "Terry Shea was the guy I had in mind in the first place" thing came from. And yet you've still failed to dispute anything else I wrote b/c, once again, you can't.
I showed you Lovie Smith himself claiming he did the hiring. You're taking the word of whoever is on that video that doesn't even play?
click the transcript button and read it then, and if you want to continue the discussion PM, we've done enough in this thread that's not about Lovie
That transcript is barely in English...and you're saying that Lovie Smith is full of crap, that the articles written at the time are full of crap...but that Moon Mullin's revisionist history years later is correct? And that Lovie lied about being the guy doing the interviews and hiring because...oh, no reason. Just 'cause.

Puhhhhhhhlease.
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