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Tired of my Boy Jared Veldheer being thrown under the bus
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Professor Oak


Joined: 12 Apr 2011
Posts: 3843
Location: Pallet Town
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LivingLegendWFC wrote:
Veldheer did a good job, but I don't think he played great football this year. I think Joeckel has that potential and if he didn't he wouldn't be looked at as a top five pick. I don't think its crazy to think a top five pick at LT could com in and play great football, maybe not right off the bat but in time.

Its like you guys are taking such offence to say I wouldn't be against adding a franchise LT and moving Veldheer over to RT to lock down both spots long term. I really don't get the problem there, and I even said I would rather address the defense but I couldn't be upset about the idea of solidifying the OT spot on this team long term. People want to talk about teams being built in the trenches, but if you suggest moving someone that is already on the team for a franchise type talent its blasphemy. The bottom line is drafting Joeckel could upgrade our entire offensive unit, just because Veldheer has been good doesn't mean we should rule mouth a chance to upgrade the team just because he would switch sides. That type of thinking leaves you missing out on talent because you have someone who's solid and thus rule out a potential upgrade to your overall team.

I agree with your line of thinking in terms of upgrading talent no matter what position, but at what cost? The bold is not really a guarantee.

Sometimes change backfires. If it's not broke, why fix it? Switching Veldheer to RT, as smart as he is, doesn't mean he will be successful. Joeckel at LT isn't a sure thing either. I've seen a lot of 'can't miss' OT's in my time. Don't get me wrong, he could very well be a franchise OT, but I'm not sure I would take the risk of taking him #3 overall when 1. We have something solid already in place 2. Would have to switch a players' position and 3. Have bigger glaring needs.

If the staff thinks it would work, I'd be okay with it, but I'd rather not play around with things & address it another way. Just my opinion.
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3658
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too many people think this is Madden football.
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macklemore


Joined: 27 Apr 2012
Posts: 1425
Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
Too many people think this is Madden football.


because only in madden football can LT's move to RT.
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Dessie


Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 4631
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Say we took Joeckal does anyone think we could get an early 2nd round pick for Veldheer?
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bitty wrote:
I don't understand why everybody thinks Green Bay is the pinnacle of NFL franchises?
In my opinion they are a joke. In the last ten years there drafts sucked.
#clueless
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macklemore


Joined: 27 Apr 2012
Posts: 1425
Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dessie wrote:
Say we took Joeckal does anyone think we could get an early 2nd round pick for Veldheer?


why in the world would we do that? his value on our team is astronomically higher than his trade value would be.

If we take Joeckel we move Veldheer to RT.
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Dessie


Joined: 02 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

macklemore wrote:
Dessie wrote:
Say we took Joeckal does anyone think we could get an early 2nd round pick for Veldheer?


why in the world would we do that? his value on our team is astronomically higher than his trade value would be.

If we take Joeckel we move Veldheer to RT.


Not saying we should (i would keep Veldheer) but if Joeckal is the BPA then I was wondering what Veldheers trade value would be. He is 1 year away from being an FA so we could get something from him rather than let him walk (in this scenario)
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bitty wrote:
I don't understand why everybody thinks Green Bay is the pinnacle of NFL franchises?
In my opinion they are a joke. In the last ten years there drafts sucked.
#clueless
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
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Location: Dublin
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the people saying Reggie should draft Joekel would be the first calling for his head if he ended up like Robert "cant miss" Gallery. We've got a very good left tackle as it stands, drafting an unknown at that positions seems like a really terrible idea.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
All the people saying Reggie should draft Joekel would be the first calling for his head if he ended up like Robert "cant miss" Gallery. We've got a very good left tackle as it stands, drafting an unknown at that positions seems like a really terrible idea.


I dunno man, it seems like Gallery must have been a scouting error. He couldn't move his feet in the pros. There's no way scouts could have missed that, which means either Al insisted or a coach did and got his way. I imagine now with a scouting department, if Joeckel isn't able to move his feet we would see the signs of it, or some such other glaring flaw..
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RunDmc23


Joined: 25 Dec 2010
Posts: 234
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
All the people saying Reggie should draft Joekel would be the first calling for his head if he ended up like Robert "cant miss" Gallery. We've got a very good left tackle as it stands, drafting an unknown at that positions seems like a really terrible idea.


Hahaha hilarious man drafting another tackle to complete our bookends sounds like a terrible idea. ok ya lets just deal with Khalif barnes for a couple more years ya right horrible idea
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Bo_Spice


Joined: 17 May 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
I dunno man, it seems like Gallery must have been a scouting error. He couldn't move his feet in the pros. There's no way scouts could have missed that, which means either Al insisted or a coach did and got his way. I imagine now with a scouting department, if Joeckel isn't able to move his feet we would see the signs of it, or some such other glaring flaw..


The reason that Gallery struggled as a left tackle in the NFL was due to his extremely short arms.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14933
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LivingLegendWFC wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
LivingLegendWFC wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
LivingLegendWFC wrote:
The way I see it is Velheer is fine at LT.We can keep him there and not have to worry about it for a while, I'd be perfectly fine with that. However if the staff feels like Joeckel is the best player on the board and a franchise LT and they want to slide Veldheer over to RT then that's great, it would be basically upgrading two positions at once.

I'm cool either way personally.


i always wonder why people think he can just slide to rt and be just as effective?


Because he's a very good run blocker and has good strength, and the one area he can struggle is against athletic sped rushers, he would see a lot less of those types of players playing against LEs.


i would argue that ive seen him shut down jared allen and other speed rushers before imo he is a better pass blocker than run blocker. run blocking is just the icing on the cake. i would hate to move him when he is just getting his lt craft refined. if it aint broke dont fix it type mentality


I agree 100%. We have seen him shut down dominant guys. I don't know where this distaste for his game is coming from. Its like one person says it and all of a sudden it becomes gospel and the rest of the sheep start singing the same tune. Veldheer is just fine where he is. We need a solid bookend for him at RT and an upgrade in talent and youth at the OG spots.


And I feel like because most of our team is garbage the few good players we have get overrated and its been that way for some time. We have seen Veldheer dominate some games and we have also seen him have poor outings. I wasn't calling the guy trash, I was simply saying how upset could none really be if we got a franchise LT and kicked Veldheer over to RT and solidified both spots for the next decade. But damn I must just be hating on Veldheer when in reality I'm saying him and a great looking prospect could set us up at OT for a long time and give us a great foundation on offense.


I know exactly what you are saying but imo jv gives us the luxury of not having to draft a lt early. we can use that pick to fill another hole or trade down.
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green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
This is football, not pussology 101
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bo_Spice wrote:
holyghost wrote:
I dunno man, it seems like Gallery must have been a scouting error. He couldn't move his feet in the pros. There's no way scouts could have missed that, which means either Al insisted or a coach did and got his way. I imagine now with a scouting department, if Joeckel isn't able to move his feet we would see the signs of it, or some such other glaring flaw..


The reason that Gallery struggled as a left tackle in the NFL was due to his extremely short arms.


ironic but when we drafted gallery he started at rt where imo he played well. then the switched him to lt and the rest was history
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NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
This is football, not pussology 101
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DOCLEW 28


Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 10894
Location: East Oakland
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's why I am saying leave Veldheer alone and where he is.

There is more value in the trade down and then taking:

Eric Fisher - Central Michigan
D.J. Fluker - Alabama
Brennan Williams - North Carolina
Ricky Wagner - Wisconsin

And on top of getting your RT of the future, possibly getting a CB or NT all for that one high pick after all the transactions are made.
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Bo_Spice


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DOCLEW 28 wrote:
That's why I am saying leave Veldheer alone and where he is.

There is more value in the trade down and then taking:

Eric Fisher - Central Michigan
D.J. Fluker - Alabama
Brennan Williams - North Carolina
Ricky Wagner - Wisconsin

And on top of all that possibly getting a CB or NT all for that one high pick after all the transactions are made.


Eric Fisher is most likely going to be a top fifteen pick and the third left tackle off the board in April.

I'm not a big fan of D.J. Fluker, he'll need to lose some weight and get better at moving his feet or he's going to get owned in pass protection.

I don't know much about the other two but I've read good things about Williams.
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DOCLEW 28


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At RT in the power scheme Fluker will be fine as a rookie. Just like all the rest. Of course he will have to improve every aspect of his game like all the rest too. That includes his overall body health and type and footwork. Eric Fisher played some RT so he has history there. And he will not be a top 15 guy. I look for him to be drafted somewhere in the early 20's. And that is right in our wheelhouse for a trade down.
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