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2012 State of the Steelers Part Two - - RB's
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Sould the Steelers re-sign Rashard Mendenhall
yes
40%
 40%  [ 8 ]
no
60%
 60%  [ 12 ]
Total Votes : 20

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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
The Steelers can not go into the season with just Redman and Dwyer as the primary RBs.


The Steelers cannot go into the season with just Jonathan Scott as the only LT-capable lineman on the roster

Shocked


Haha....word.

Redman and Dwyer arent starting caliber backs, but until the run blocking is addressed, no RB is going to have alot of success. I dont mind getting someone, but iMO it would be stupid to invest a high draft pick in a RB.

Im hoping a reasonable deal can be worked out with Mendy.
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just hate the philosphy of get run blocking then get a RB. That means the Steelers may never have a running game or RB for that matter if that's the mindset.

The Steelers are fine running the ball, it's more situational then anything else. The Steelers run toss sweeps with J. Dwyer, why? Where is the stretch plays or the TD against the Ravens with the zone blocking concept where are those plays? The Steelers are very basic in there run calls which lets the defense pins there ears back because the Steelers run 3 running plays.

W. Johnson isn't the greatest FB, but he's effecient and above average with his in line and back field blocking. Running the ball is a mindset and the Steelers illustrated that mindset 3 times this season. The Steelers have invested 5 1st or 2nd round picks on OL the past 3 years how much more investment do you need?
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
I just hate the philosphy of get run blocking then get a RB. That means the Steelers may never have a running game or RB for that matter if that's the mindset.

The Steelers are fine running the ball, it's more situational then anything else. The Steelers run toss sweeps with J. Dwyer, why? Where is the stretch plays or the TD against the Ravens with the zone blocking concept where are those plays? The Steelers are very basic in there run calls which lets the defense pins there ears back because the Steelers run 3 running plays.

W. Johnson isn't the greatest FB, but he's effecient and above average with his in line and back field blocking. Running the ball is a mindset and the Steelers illustrated that mindset 3 times this season. The Steelers have invested 5 1st or 2nd round picks on OL the past 3 years how much more investment do you need?
definitely agree with this! No way does this team need to take a OL before round 4.

Geeze, you don't need all first and 2nd round OL to be successful. Again, the red skins have the best run blocking OL in the entire NFL, they have 2 OL drafted in the first two rounds Trent Williams and Chris Chester. A 4th round LG in Kory Lichtensteiger an undrafted center and an undrafted Rt.

Focus on other positions people and let the young OL develop and gel over the next season or 2.

I still say taking a Rb before round 2 is a waste also unless the guy is a total game changer. There are a lot of good, solid RBs in the mid and late rounds of this drafts.

I point to the red skins again. We have 3 rubs we drafted in the last two years. One is the 2nd leading rusher in the NFL and just broke Clinton Portis' franchise record for yards in a season. He is a rookie drafted in round 6 names
Alfred Morris. We have Evan Royster who is a solid back up and had 3 100 yard games last year as a rookie and he was a 6th round pick in 2011. Then we have Roy Helu (unfortunately on IR) he was our 2011 4th round pick had had a few 100 us games last year and 49 receptions.
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Steeler Hitman


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
I just hate the philosphy of get run blocking then get a RB. That means the Steelers may never have a running game or RB for that matter if that's the mindset.

I only disagree with you here Steel because we have a franchise QB who needs to be upright as well. I give Haley credit for the first half offense when Big Ben was having success and not getting smacked around as much. He still holds the ball to make big plays and as a result big completins will happen as well as some sacks and hits.

The Steelers are fine running the ball, it's more situational then anything else.

I strongly disagree with you here Steel. I think the OL has potential to grow, but injuries and other issues prevented that from happening. the Steeler run game dominated in three of 16 games that is not fine to me. No RB gaining over 60 yards down the stretch. The inability to close out games running the four-minute ofense consistently all year. Our OL needs improvement. Our offense will not be successful until the OL is consistent.

The Steelers run toss sweeps with J. Dwyer, why? Where is the stretch plays or the TD against the Ravens with the zone blocking concept where are those plays? The Steelers are very basic in there run calls which lets the defense pins there ears back because the Steelers run 3 running plays.


No argument here Steel. This is on Haley and Tomlin for not incorporating more plays and adjusting to the fact that the offense got very predictable running and passing. The stats and wins and losses prove this. Great point.

W. Johnson isn't the greatest FB, but he's effecient and above average with his in line and back field blocking.

I agree with you here as well. He exceeded expectations though. The great thing is he is young and has room to improve physically and learning the nuances of being a FB. He has above average hands for a FB catching, but like many of today's FB's is not an instinctive runner. (Sorry for being redundant in reposting comments that I already said about Will)

Running the ball is a mindset and the Steelers illustrated that mindset 3 times this season.

One of the former Washington Redskin's Hogs (Russ Grimm I think) said, "There is nothing like engaging a man and moving him against his will!"

The Steelers had the mindset to run the ball every game, the problem is that they didn't have the horses to move a man against his will except three games this season.


The Steelers have invested 5 1st or 2nd round picks on OL the past 3 years how much more investment do you need?


The question is is it the right investment? Gilbert, DeCastro and Adams missed six or more games each. No doubt injuries are a factor, but there is still room for improvement on the Steelers OL. As I was blasted for, Colon nd his high slary for one. The injuries have shown the need for depth and more quality along the OL. I would not object to the Steelers taking a quality OL in round one if they were the BPA. Again, we have issues running the ball and almost every year ur QB is getting beat up.

I would love to see what Big Ben could do with a great running game and consistent pass protection. I think he will put up huge numbers. Protect the franchise and you can get quality RB's in other rounds besides the first.

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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steeler Hitman wrote:
I only disagree with you here Steel because we have a franchise QB who needs to be upright as well. I give Haley credit for the first half offense when Big Ben was having success and not getting smacked around as much. He still holds the ball to make big plays and as a result big completins will happen as well as some sacks and hits.


I don't think Ben held the ball that much this year as in previous years. He still did tend to double clutch and pump fake quite a bit this year. Ben's biggest problem is that he fails to use his check down options which the majority of the time uncovered. Unless they are the very last option and are directly in Ben's line of sight. A establish running game would do Ben well even if it isn't producing large numbers. We all know that Ben is one of the best play action QBs in the game. Can't utilize play action if there is zero threat of the Steelers establishing a running game.

Quote:
I strongly disagree with you here Steel. I think the OL has potential to grow, but injuries and other issues prevented that from happening. the Steeler run game dominated in three of 16 games that is not fine to me. No RB gaining over 60 yards down the stretch. The inability to close out games running the four-minute ofense consistently all year. Our OL needs improvement. Our offense will not be successful until the OL is consistent.


The Steelers have had some injuries, but this year they weren't as bad as the previous as the players that replaced the injured did pretty well.

Beachum did well, Legs when placed at OC did well, DeCastro is probably the only replacement that struggled a little bit and I contribute that to not playing till late in the season. Teams were hitting their strides when DeCastro came in , so it was kind of a uphill battle for him.

I just believe the Steelers situational run selection was poor and predictable. I believe Haley was expecting to get more out of Mendenhall and when that didn't happen it kind of hindered what he was able to call with the RBs he had at his disposal.

Quote:
The question is is it the right investment? Gilbert, DeCastro and Adams missed six or more games each. No doubt injuries are a factor, but there is still room for improvement on the Steelers OL. As I was blasted for, Colon nd his high slary for one. The injuries have shown the need for depth and more quality along the OL. I would not object to the Steelers taking a quality OL in round one if they were the BPA. Again, we have issues running the ball and almost every year ur QB is getting beat up.

I would love to see what Big Ben could do with a great running game and consistent pass protection. I think he will put up huge numbers. Protect the franchise and you can get quality RB's in other rounds besides the first.


The Steelers have the right OL. It's now about getting a coach that can get them all to play on the same page. But it also important for this OL to stay on the field for more than a handful of games a season.

Chance Warmack, Cooper and Warford are the only OL I want the Steelers to take. With Warmack being the only one at the 17 spot. I'd take the other two on a trade down 25 or later.

Lacy is the only quality back I take in the 2nd. If the Steelers don't draft him then if available in the 4th round or later. I'd take Bell, Ball, Gillisee, Lattimore, Graham.
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steelers75


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:04 am    Post subject: draft Reply with quote

after watching the alabama game tonight, chance warmack looks pretty good at 17.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
I just hate the philosphy of get run blocking then get a RB.


So I guess if you were building a car, you would worry about the tires before the engine, huh?

If thats how you feel, then Im sorry, but you have no idea how to build a consistent running game, because it starts up front, not with a RB.

Hate it all you want, but facts are facts are facts.

Quote:
That means the Steelers may never have a running game or RB for that matter if that's the mindset.


Completely ridiculous and huge exaggeration

How does it mean that even in the slightest?

We drafted Mendy in the first round and our running game was never any better than it was in the previous years when we were playing with an undrafted FA and an aging Jerome Bettis.

The last time our run game was truly consistent? 2004-2007.

When did our running game decline? 2008.

You know what the major difference was between 2004-2007 and 2008-present?

Ill give you a hint....its not the RBs.

Alan Faneca, and if you want to go even futher, Mavel Smith.

Fix the OLine. Until then, a RB is just another toy whose success will be limited by the OLine.
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
I just hate the philosphy of get run blocking then get a RB.


So I guess if you were building a car, you would worry about the tires before the engine, huh?

If thats how you feel, then Im sorry, but you have no idea how to build a consistent running game, because it starts up front, not with a RB.

Hate it all you want, but facts are facts are facts.

Quote:
That means the Steelers may never have a running game or RB for that matter if that's the mindset.


Completely ridiculous and huge exaggeration

How does it mean that even in the slightest?

We drafted Mendy in the first round and our running game was never any better than it was in the previous years when we were playing with an undrafted FA and an aging Jerome Bettis.

The last time our run game was truly consistent? 2004-2007.

When did our running game decline? 2008.

You know what the major difference was between 2004-2007 and 2008-present?

Ill give you a hint....its not the RBs.

Alan Faneca, and if you want to go even futher, Mavel Smith.

Fix the OLine. Until then, a RB is just another toy whose success will be limited by the OLine.


The Steelers have invest 4 pick in the first two round on OL. I think they have the players. Get the RB.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
I just hate the philosphy of get run blocking then get a RB.


So I guess if you were building a car, you would worry about the tires before the engine, huh?

If thats how you feel, then Im sorry, but you have no idea how to build a consistent running game, because it starts up front, not with a RB.

Hate it all you want, but facts are facts are facts.

Quote:
That means the Steelers may never have a running game or RB for that matter if that's the mindset.


Completely ridiculous and huge exaggeration

How does it mean that even in the slightest?

We drafted Mendy in the first round and our running game was never any better than it was in the previous years when we were playing with an undrafted FA and an aging Jerome Bettis.

The last time our run game was truly consistent? 2004-2007.

When did our running game decline? 2008.

You know what the major difference was between 2004-2007 and 2008-present?

Ill give you a hint....its not the RBs.

Alan Faneca, and if you want to go even futher, Mavel Smith.

Fix the OLine. Until then, a RB is just another toy whose success will be limited by the OLine.


The Steelers have invest 4 pick in the first two round on OL. I think they have the players. Get the RB.


Yes....because Pouncey's average at best run blocking and Gilbert laughably bad footwork will help any RB running behind them.

And you didnt address my question....

Quote:
Completely ridiculous and huge exaggeration

How does it mean that even in the slightest?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:


Yes....because Pouncey's average at best run blocking and Gilbert laughably bad footwork will help any RB running behind them.

And you didnt address my question....

Quote:
Completely ridiculous and huge exaggeration

How does it mean that even in the slightest?


The Steelers shouldn't pass on talent period. The Steelers outside of Mendy doo not have a RB worth while.

If fans believe the Steelers can survive next season with a unmotivated RB, a nicked up RB, average 3rd back and a extremely small scat back. The Steelers running game won't produce even if the OL is playing well. The RBs have to make plays on there own sometimes and outside of Rainey if Mendy leaves none of them could do it.

Yes the run blocking needs to improve, but it's more about health then it is about talent. Chemistry can easily masked the shortcomings of a offense proven by the Steelers in 2010 OL.

If the Steelers had a 1200 13 TD running back this season then I don't have much to say. But Redman nor Dwyer will ever have those type of numbers with there talent.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, since I don't watch college ball I need some answers-who is the RB in the upcoming draft with the best vision? I'm not talking about the best back overall. Who clearly has great vision?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stillersenat wrote:
OK, since I don't watch college ball I need some answers-who is the RB in the upcoming draft with the best vision? I'm not talking about the best back overall. Who clearly has great vision?


Stepfan Taylor is probably the RB the Steelers need to draft as his offense is run pretty similar to what the Steelers use. So his familiarity with DeCastro and pulling OG's will help.
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Steelers22


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we have invested numerous picks in our offensive line. Like previously said, we have the talent on our line to have an above average line and the only thing holding that unit back are injuries. With that in mind, we need a RB that will be able to take advantage of that. I'm still hoping we can get Mendenhall back fairly cheaply and then not have to worry about it but I wouldn't hold my breath. RB in round 2 or 3 are real options
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Steeler Hitman


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that this is the RB thread, but I have to respond to some of the OL comments.

Steelers22 wrote:
we have invested numerous picks in our offensive line.

#1 on Pouncey and DeCastro and #2 on Gilbert and Adams and #3 on Colon. Three of the four going down, supports and yours/and others argument to the investment. The Steelers running game was poor. Pass protection was better,even with fill-ins, but the bottom line is that the Steelers couldn't run the ball consistently in 13 of 16 games.

There is no guarentee that everyone stays healthy. I admit that OL shouldn't be the #1 priority, but it should be a priority. For everytime, Mendy, Dwyer, Redman, Rainey or Batch mis-read a block, there are 5 times that they had no block to mis-read. If Colon must go because he is too expensive and never stays healthy, it would be hard for me to pass on a solid OT or OG prospect of they were the BPA. No other RB in the league would have the same success running behind our OL (not AP, J Charles, Beast Mode Lynch, or A. Morris). They were all successful because of solid blocking as well as talent.


Like previously said, we have the talent on our line to have an above average line and the only thing holding that unit back are injuries.

I agree that the potential is there with the starters, but we get no push from any of our back-ups. The other 13 games show that. What is potential without realization? Deoth is a beautiful thing.

With that in mind, we need a RB that will be able to take advantage of that.

No RB can take advantage of potential. He needs blocking. The Steeler rushing ataack didn't falter because no RB on their roster could run. It faultered because no RB had blocking.

I'm still hoping we can get Mendenhall back fairly cheaply and then not have to worry about it but I wouldn't hold my breath. RB in round 2 or 3 are real options

I think Mendy would be a decent option at he right price as an insurance policy, but the baggage and other issues concern me. I agree with fourthreemafia's analogy of not getting tires before ensurang your engine can run. Tires don't make the car run, they make the ride smooth.


I would like Colon to be great, but if he can't stay healthy and wouldn't restructure, I can't see passing on aan OG like Alabama's Womack because we invested too many #1's and #2's on the OL. I agree our OL has potential and could become a strength, but they could us another player or two. Shady McCoy is a talented RB who didn't have near the success because his OL was full of injuries. He is elusive, has instincts and can read blocking. Success is not the same without a healthy OL.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
stillersenat wrote:
OK, since I don't watch college ball I need some answers-who is the RB in the upcoming draft with the best vision? I'm not talking about the best back overall. Who clearly has great vision?


Stepfan Taylor is probably the RB the Steelers need to draft as his offense is run pretty similar to what the Steelers use. So his familiarity with DeCastro and pulling OG's will help.
id agree with that or Lacy. Both of these guys played in pro style offenses with traditional pro type OL's. I could see the steelers selecting either in round 2 if available
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