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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 2736
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
BBIB wrote:
BrownieTheElf wrote:
I don't like the guy but Vick should be considered as well if he leaves.


Vick would be ideal fit but he won't be considered if for no other reason you can't like Vick play in the Dawg Pound.

THe media and opposing fans would have too much of a field day with that


But in order these are the QBs who should be considered through trade and free agency


1)Joe Webb- Arguably as athletic as RGIII with a stronger arm. PRoblem is he's not the most accurate of passers, yet in the Chip Kelly system he could be significantly more efficient.

2)Terrelle Pryor- Chip Kelly tried very hard to recruit Pryor at Oregon and Pryor would be a perfect fit in the NFL. ALthough he may cost a little more in trade now that the Raiders future plans at the QB position are murky.

3)Dennis Dixon- Maybe not a full-time starter but the absolute perfect backup for Chip Kelly's system. Unlike Darron THomas, he actually has the speed to translate to the next level that would give defenders fits. He's 2-1 as a starter even without the innovative Kelly

4)Thad Lewis- Watched this kid at Duke and was impressed that he could even make Duke semi-competitive in several games. He's got the physical tools to be a decent player in this league especially in that system

5)Josh Johsnon- He's 0-5 as a starter but in CHip Kelly's system he could be an ideal backup and could look far better than his twice as many INTs as TD ratio he has right now in the league

6)Tyrod Taylor- Another work in progress as a passer but much more ideal fit for Kelly's system



The top 2 guys especially have the most upside and especially the first guy in Joe Webb because he has that acceleration and that great arm strength


I think he's a prospect that many have overlooked as the perfect fit for that offense


Boy, that's a tall stack of garbage.



I saw that too...so much wrong, so little time
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HADEN4PREZIDENT


Joined: 31 Oct 2011
Posts: 518
Location: Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I Like Joe Webb a lot for this offenses until the 2014 draft Laughing
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Casimir Pulaski


Joined: 23 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1 Thad Lewis
Slash and burn the rest.
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BooyaCS


Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 7520
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chip isn't going to run the read option in the NFL it just isn't going to work. What I think happens is something like this

Kelly brings in Norv Turner or Ken Wisenhunt to be his OC. They will run their offense but use Kelly's concepts and techniques (Like the Patriots did when they sent their coaching staff to Eugene).

Then I think if Ray Horton doesn't get a HC gig he comes in and runs a LeBeau style Zone Blitzing scheme.

I am thinking something along the lines of the Offense Jim Kelly ran under Marv Levy (the Sugar huddle/no huddle run and shoot) with an attacking defense.

Players I think may be gone
QB - Weeden (regmie change), Colt (Banner said in the HC plans yeah plans to get another draft pick).

RB - Brandon Jackson, Chris OBGYN
WR - Cribbs, MoMass
TE - Watson, Smith
FB - Smelly and Maricic (does Kelly even use a FB?)
LB - Fujita, and possibly Gocong
S - Young, Hagg, Gipson
CB - Skrine, Wade and Brown
P - Hodges
K - Dawson
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BBIB


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 8771
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
BBIB wrote:
BrownieTheElf wrote:
I don't like the guy but Vick should be considered as well if he leaves.


Vick would be ideal fit but he won't be considered if for no other reason you can't like Vick play in the Dawg Pound.

THe media and opposing fans would have too much of a field day with that


But in order these are the QBs who should be considered through trade and free agency


1)Joe Webb- Arguably as athletic as RGIII with a stronger arm. PRoblem is he's not the most accurate of passers, yet in the Chip Kelly system he could be significantly more efficient.

2)Terrelle Pryor- Chip Kelly tried very hard to recruit Pryor at Oregon and Pryor would be a perfect fit in the NFL. ALthough he may cost a little more in trade now that the Raiders future plans at the QB position are murky.

3)Dennis Dixon- Maybe not a full-time starter but the absolute perfect backup for Chip Kelly's system. Unlike Darron THomas, he actually has the speed to translate to the next level that would give defenders fits. He's 2-1 as a starter even without the innovative Kelly

4)Thad Lewis- Watched this kid at Duke and was impressed that he could even make Duke semi-competitive in several games. He's got the physical tools to be a decent player in this league especially in that system

5)Josh Johsnon- He's 0-5 as a starter but in CHip Kelly's system he could be an ideal backup and could look far better than his twice as many INTs as TD ratio he has right now in the league

6)Tyrod Taylor- Another work in progress as a passer but much more ideal fit for Kelly's system



The top 2 guys especially have the most upside and especially the first guy in Joe Webb because he has that acceleration and that great arm strength


I think he's a prospect that many have overlooked as the perfect fit for that offense


Boy, that's a tall stack of garbage.



If those guys were in a traditional offense like the west coast offense it would be a tall stack of garbage.

But what Chip Kelly is going to do is make a whole lot of purists and traditionalists have nightmares by tearing down dogma after dogma about the style of play you need to be successful on offense in this league

It's all about building an offense to fit the guys in your system which ironically how the west coast offense was created in the first place
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BBIB


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 8771
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BooyaCS wrote:
Chip isn't going to run the read option in the NFL it just isn't going to work. What I think happens is something like this

Kelly brings in Norv Turner or Ken Wisenhunt to be his OC. They will run their offense but use Kelly's concepts and techniques (Like the Patriots did when they sent their coaching staff to Eugene).

Then I think if Ray Horton doesn't get a HC gig he comes in and runs a LeBeau style Zone Blitzing scheme.

I am thinking something along the lines of the Offense Jim Kelly ran under Marv Levy (the Sugar huddle/no huddle run and shoot) with an attacking defense.

Players I think may be gone
QB - Weeden (regmie change), Colt (Banner said in the HC plans yeah plans to get another draft pick).

RB - Brandon Jackson, Chris OBGYN
WR - Cribbs, MoMass
TE - Watson, Smith
FB - Smelly and Maricic (does Kelly even use a FB?)
LB - Fujita, and possibly Gocong
S - Young, Hagg, Gipson
CB - Skrine, Wade and Brown
P - Hodges
K - Dawson


If they wanted to do that they would just hire Norv Turner

The only reason you go out and have the guts to get a college coach is if you stick to that college coach's identity. The idea that Chip Kelly is going to run a Norv Turner offense is just plain silly.

He's going to bring his schemes to the league.

Schemes that work because of concepts of diversion, deception, and decision that translate to any level of football

It's 11 on 11 instead of 10 on 11.


And the zone read is just one part of the offense although it's a signficant staple.


They don't run the zone read 80 times per game

But he's also not going to run it 0 times per game
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 2736
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BooyaCS wrote:
Chip isn't going to run the read option in the NFL it just isn't going to work. What I think happens is something like this

Kelly brings in Norv Turner or Ken Wisenhunt to be his OC. They will run their offense but use Kelly's concepts and techniques (Like the Patriots did when they sent their coaching staff to Eugene).

Then I think if Ray Horton doesn't get a HC gig he comes in and runs a LeBeau style Zone Blitzing scheme.

I am thinking something along the lines of the Offense Jim Kelly ran under Marv Levy (the Sugar huddle/no huddle run and shoot) with an attacking defense.

Players I think may be gone
QB - Weeden (regmie change), Colt (Banner said in the HC plans yeah plans to get another draft pick).

RB - Brandon Jackson, Chris OBGYN
WR - Cribbs, MoMass
TE - Watson, Smith
FB - Smelly and Maricic (does Kelly even use a FB?)
LB - Fujita, and possibly Gocong
S - Young, Hagg, Gipson
CB - Skrine, Wade and Brown
P - Hodges
K - Dawson


Smelly might stick, he's atheltic enough, Smith, Gipson, Wade, belong in a different group than the others...the "doesn't really suck" group...then the 3rd group would be Watson, Dawson, and Gocong ...they are all good players.

But yeah, having the QB hit 90 times a season just on runs is a very bad idea in the NFL. No way Kelly does that.
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ditchdigger


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 17313
Location: Gahanna, OH
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Casimir Pulaski wrote:
1 Thad Lewis
Slash and burn the rest.




Last edited by ditchdigger on Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ditchdigger


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 17313
Location: Gahanna, OH
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBIB wrote:
If those guys were in a traditional offense like the west coast offense it would be a tall stack of garbage.

But what Chip Kelly is going to do is make a whole lot of purists and traditionalists have nightmares by tearing down dogma after dogma about the style of play you need to be successful on offense in this league

It's all about building an offense to fit the guys in your system which ironically how the west coast offense was created in the first place


Quarterbacks still have to throw the football right? All those guys are garbage throwers for the football. No scheme will hide the fact that they are all garbage throwers of the football.


Last edited by ditchdigger on Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 2736
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBIB wrote:


If those guys were in a traditional offense like the west coast offense it would be a tall stack of garbage.

But what Chip Kelly is going to do is make a whole lot of purists and traditionalists have nightmares by tearing down dogma after dogma about the style of play you need to be successful on offense in this league

It's all about building an offense to fit the guys in your system which ironically how the west coast offense was created in the first place


You're right about the WCO. See, we are Browns fans and a lot of us know our own history.

The critical pieces of the WCO, by the way, are receivers and a QB that understand how to read the defense the same way. Then they need the actual athletic ability to use that read to execute a play.

Paul Brown didn't just throw scrubs in there, neither did Walsh.

They had talented players at QB, WR, TE, RB, and on the offensive line.

You are talking like the scheme makes up for less talented players. Like it makes up for lacking abilities to run, catch, throw, or block...or read a defense.

Kelly's scheme is designed to adapt to defenses using talent on the roster and to attack quickly to limit the defense's ability to adapt or substitute.

One unique thing about the scheme is how the speed between plays is used to effectively control the ball as well as score quickly. Also, the efficiency in calling plays and audibles quickly as well as changing plays after the snap is rather unique too.

But make no mistake, it still requires WRs than can beat man coverage, QBs that can throw accurately to every spot on the field, RBs that can make defenders miss in space and catch the ball out of the backfield, OLinemen that can block (and guards that can pull), TEs that can catch as well as block...nowhere does his scheme make up for weak-armed passers, or less talented players in general
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 31986
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

its crazy looking at a lot of the better dual threat/more mobile QBs will be coming out next year possibly...damn lol
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BBIB


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 8771
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
its crazy looking at a lot of the better dual threat/more mobile QBs will be coming out next year possibly...damn lol


There will be no shortage of that talent pool in the future because of how many big programs are running spread option offenses and how these QBs are more prepared at the college level coming out of HS with all the QB camps, drills, etc
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 2736
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
Casimir Pulaski wrote:
1 Thad Lewis
Slash and burn the rest.







I agree too
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BBIB


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 8771
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
BBIB wrote:


If those guys were in a traditional offense like the west coast offense it would be a tall stack of garbage.

But what Chip Kelly is going to do is make a whole lot of purists and traditionalists have nightmares by tearing down dogma after dogma about the style of play you need to be successful on offense in this league

It's all about building an offense to fit the guys in your system which ironically how the west coast offense was created in the first place


You're right about the WCO. See, we are Browns fans and a lot of us know our own history.

The critical pieces of the WCO, by the way, are receivers and a QB that understand how to read the defense the same way. Then they need the actual athletic ability to use that read to execute a play.

Paul Brown didn't just throw scrubs in there, neither did Walsh.

They had talented players at QB, WR, TE, RB, and on the offensive line.

You are talking like the scheme makes up for less talented players. Like it makes up for lacking abilities to run, catch, throw, or block...or read a defense.

Kelly's scheme is designed to adapt to defenses using talent on the roster and to attack quickly to limit the defense's ability to adapt or substitute.

One unique thing about the scheme is how the speed between plays is used to effectively control the ball as well as score quickly. Also, the efficiency in calling plays and audibles quickly as well as changing plays after the snap is rather unique too.

But make no mistake, it still requires WRs than can beat man coverage, QBs that can throw accurately to every spot on the field, RBs that can make defenders miss in space and catch the ball out of the backfield, OLinemen that can block (and guards that can pull), TEs that can catch as well as block...nowhere does his scheme make up for weak-armed passers, or less talented players in general


You're exaggerating the lack of ability of Joe Webb, Terrelle Pryor, and Dennis Dixon if you're insinuating that none of those guys could make the necessary throws in a Chip Kelly offense.

And no one says that they didn't have responsibilities at the line of scrimmage, but so do his QBs in college. If college QBs can handle it I'm pretty sure guys who have seen an NFL playbook can make the adjustments


Last edited by BBIB on Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:36 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 2736
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBIB wrote:
Entropy wrote:
BBIB wrote:


If those guys were in a traditional offense like the west coast offense it would be a tall stack of garbage.

But what Chip Kelly is going to do is make a whole lot of purists and traditionalists have nightmares by tearing down dogma after dogma about the style of play you need to be successful on offense in this league

It's all about building an offense to fit the guys in your system which ironically how the west coast offense was created in the first place


You're right about the WCO. See, we are Browns fans and a lot of us know our own history.

The critical pieces of the WCO, by the way, are receivers and a QB that understand how to read the defense the same way. Then they need the actual athletic ability to use that read to execute a play.

Paul Brown didn't just throw scrubs in there, neither did Walsh.

They had talented players at QB, WR, TE, RB, and on the offensive line.

You are talking like the scheme makes up for less talented players. Like it makes up for lacking abilities to run, catch, throw, or block...or read a defense.

Kelly's scheme is designed to adapt to defenses using talent on the roster and to attack quickly to limit the defense's ability to adapt or substitute.

One unique thing about the scheme is how the speed between plays is used to effectively control the ball as well as score quickly. Also, the efficiency in calling plays and audibles quickly as well as changing plays after the snap is rather unique too.

But make no mistake, it still requires WRs than can beat man coverage, QBs that can throw accurately to every spot on the field, RBs that can make defenders miss in space and catch the ball out of the backfield, OLinemen that can block (and guards that can pull), TEs that can catch as well as block...nowhere does his scheme make up for weak-armed passers, or less talented players in general


You're exaggerating the lack of ability of Joe Webb, Terrelle Pryor, and Dennis Dixon if you're insinuating that none of those guys could make the necessary throws in a Chip Kelly offense.

And no one says that they didn't have responsibilities at the line of scrimmage, but so do his QBs in college. If college QBs can handle it I'm pretty sure guys who have seen an NFL playbook can make the adjustments


NONE of those guys can make accurate throws to every spot on the field in the NFL...not one of them
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