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SteelProven
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 11847
Location: Ramstein, Germany
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 Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't be upset if Haley left.
He would of left eventually rather sooner then later.
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AlanFanecaFan
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 10931
Location: Getting hammered with Jeff Reed
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Chieferific wrote: | | AlanFanecaFan wrote: | | JustPlainNasty wrote: | | steelcurtain29 wrote: | I was hoping the offense would open up quick strikes to our fast WR's and let them make plays... it instead constricted our offense and our star QB.
I don't like it, at all. Haley isn't meant for this team. |
Yeh you're right. Scoring more touchdowns and points, having one of the best 3rd down conversion rates, 2nd in the league in time of possession and getting the qb hit much less aren't for this offense. |
They avg only a pt or 2 more per game and Ben was only getting hit on avg one time less per game...all at the sacrifice of anything remotely resembling a current NFL offense especially with the current talent at the skill positions.
TOP means nothing if you're not scoring the points to go along with it.
DEFs were playing so close to the LOS it was rediculous...no vertical play calling...unimaginative play calling as well.
Offense was never able to get into a rhythm...never going no huddle unless at end of the half...I could go on.
Arians system needed tweaked...better red zone efficiency and running efficiency...not demolished and set back 30 years...neither were accomplished. |
They did. With Ben out And That's The Bottom Line. |
The bottom line is that they scored 30 or more pts only once this year....that's sad.
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JustPlainNasty
Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 7098
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| AlanFanecaFan wrote: | | JustPlainNasty wrote: | | steelcurtain29 wrote: | I was hoping the offense would open up quick strikes to our fast WR's and let them make plays... it instead constricted our offense and our star QB.
I don't like it, at all. Haley isn't meant for this team. |
Yeh you're right. Scoring more touchdowns and points, having one of the best 3rd down conversion rates, 2nd in the league in time of possession and getting the qb hit much less aren't for this offense. |
They avg only a pt or 2 more per game and Ben was only getting hit on avg one time less per game...all at the sacrifice of anything remotely resembling a current NFL offense especially with the current talent at the skill positions.
TOP means nothing if you're not scoring the points to go along with it.
DEFs were playing so close to the LOS it was rediculous...no vertical play calling...unimaginative play calling as well.
Offense was never able to get into a rhythm...never going no huddle unless at end of the half...I could go on.
Arians system needed tweaked...better red zone efficiency and running efficiency...not demolished and set back 30 years...neither were accomplished. |
Try taking into account the games Ben missed and yet still this offense was better in all those significant categories. TOP means everything, especially to this team and its defense, can you even conceive how much worse this team would've been had the D had to be on the field an average of 6 more minutes/game. Offensive control of the ball has been the philosophy of this team for years so that it can play the hair on fire defense that it has been known for in the past.
This teams offensive problems were turnovers, hold onto the ball. Especially when your D doesn't generate any.
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Chieferific
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 3118
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| AlanFanecaFan wrote: | | Chieferific wrote: | | AlanFanecaFan wrote: | | JustPlainNasty wrote: | | steelcurtain29 wrote: | I was hoping the offense would open up quick strikes to our fast WR's and let them make plays... it instead constricted our offense and our star QB.
I don't like it, at all. Haley isn't meant for this team. |
Yeh you're right. Scoring more touchdowns and points, having one of the best 3rd down conversion rates, 2nd in the league in time of possession and getting the qb hit much less aren't for this offense. |
They avg only a pt or 2 more per game and Ben was only getting hit on avg one time less per game...all at the sacrifice of anything remotely resembling a current NFL offense especially with the current talent at the skill positions.
TOP means nothing if you're not scoring the points to go along with it.
DEFs were playing so close to the LOS it was rediculous...no vertical play calling...unimaginative play calling as well.
Offense was never able to get into a rhythm...never going no huddle unless at end of the half...I could go on.
Arians system needed tweaked...better red zone efficiency and running efficiency...not demolished and set back 30 years...neither were accomplished. |
They did. With Ben out And That's The Bottom Line. |
The bottom line is that they scored 30 or more pts only once this year....that's sad. |
So you'd rather score 30+ in a couple games and then 20 less in others to make up the difference? That makes no sense. Who wouldn't want 30+ EVERY game? But that's not an option. So you can have your 8 games of 30 pts and 8 games of 10 pts. Give me 21 a game Every Game. I'm good with that.
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AlanFanecaFan
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 10931
Location: Getting hammered with Jeff Reed
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Chieferific wrote: | | AlanFanecaFan wrote: | | Chieferific wrote: | | AlanFanecaFan wrote: | | JustPlainNasty wrote: | | steelcurtain29 wrote: | I was hoping the offense would open up quick strikes to our fast WR's and let them make plays... it instead constricted our offense and our star QB.
I don't like it, at all. Haley isn't meant for this team. |
Yeh you're right. Scoring more touchdowns and points, having one of the best 3rd down conversion rates, 2nd in the league in time of possession and getting the qb hit much less aren't for this offense. |
They avg only a pt or 2 more per game and Ben was only getting hit on avg one time less per game...all at the sacrifice of anything remotely resembling a current NFL offense especially with the current talent at the skill positions.
TOP means nothing if you're not scoring the points to go along with it.
DEFs were playing so close to the LOS it was rediculous...no vertical play calling...unimaginative play calling as well.
Offense was never able to get into a rhythm...never going no huddle unless at end of the half...I could go on.
Arians system needed tweaked...better red zone efficiency and running efficiency...not demolished and set back 30 years...neither were accomplished. |
They did. With Ben out And That's The Bottom Line. |
The bottom line is that they scored 30 or more pts only once this year....that's sad. |
So you'd rather score 30+ in a couple games and then 20 less in others to make up the difference? That makes no sense. Who wouldn't want 30+ EVERY game? But that's not an option. So you can have your 8 games of 30 pts and 8 games of 10 pts. Give me 21 a game Every Game. I'm good with that. |
They did score 21 a game...it ranked 22 in the NFL.
Where did I say that? With the talent on the offense, 1 30 pt game is pathetic.
Id rather try to score 30+ every game...the talent is there...Haley didn't use the teams strength.
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| Gunny Highway wrote: | | Ed Reed coughs real hard and his other testicle descends and he admits Hines Ward has far more grit than he does |
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Dook
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 2050
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| They don't need Haley if they just let Ben call the plays. |
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Dcash4
Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 1090
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Dook wrote: | | They don't need Haley if they just let Ben call the plays. |
Ive seen other people say that Ben needs to call his own plays, and honestly - thats a terrible idea.
We may move the ball well at points, but he would take a lot of deep throws, and hold onto the ball and take A LOT of punishment for it. Ben knows what he likes, he doesn't know whats best.
Ben NEEDS someone to save him from himself at times. Its time for him to grow up a little and buy in and see what they can do for him. |
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SteelProven
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 11847
Location: Ramstein, Germany
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Dcash4 wrote: | | Dook wrote: | | They don't need Haley if they just let Ben call the plays. |
Ive seen other people say that Ben needs to call his own plays, and honestly - thats a terrible idea.
We may move the ball well at points, but he would take a lot of deep throws, and hold onto the ball and take A LOT of punishment for it. Ben knows what he likes, he doesn't know whats best.
Ben NEEDS someone to save him from himself at times. Its time for him to grow up a little and buy in and see what they can do for him. |
It's not about Ben buying in more then it's a OC playing to Bens strengths. M. Shanahan or his son would be a great OC as they call plays that actually utilize their QBs mobility.
Ben is mobile get him outside the pocket sometimes to minimize the pass rush. Ben is the best when he's moving ( unlike the games against Dallas and Cincy) which gives him moving targets which he normally hits.
Every OC that Ben's had constricts him to the pocket which I think hinders what Big Ben does best.
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Dcash4
Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 1090
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| SteelProven wrote: | | Dcash4 wrote: | | Dook wrote: | | They don't need Haley if they just let Ben call the plays. |
Ive seen other people say that Ben needs to call his own plays, and honestly - thats a terrible idea.
We may move the ball well at points, but he would take a lot of deep throws, and hold onto the ball and take A LOT of punishment for it. Ben knows what he likes, he doesn't know whats best.
Ben NEEDS someone to save him from himself at times. Its time for him to grow up a little and buy in and see what they can do for him. |
It's not about Ben buying in more then it's a OC playing to Bens strengths. M. Shanahan or his son would be a great OC as they call plays that actually utilize their QBs mobility.
Ben is mobile get him outside the pocket sometimes to minimize the pass rush. Ben is the best when he's moving ( unlike the games against Dallas and Cincy) which gives him moving targets which he normally hits.
Every OC that Ben's had constricts him to the pocket which I think hinders what Big Ben does best. |
I, personally, dont agree. There are different kinds of mobility.
RGIII mobility is breaking the pocket to the edge and giving him a run pass option. He can break you down with his legs. If you dont account for it, you talking a 20+ yard gain. Bens running threat is about 5 yards.
Bens mobility comes within the pocket. Breaking tackles, moving right to left and finding ways to THROW the ball downfield. Rolling out of the pocket is great for young QBs, but it cuts the field in half, and gives you a set amount of time to throw. Keeping Ben in the pocket is much more valuable towards his talents.
To my main point, bens mobility within the pocket leads to big throws downfield. Again, its what Ben likes to do, not necessarily what he always should. |
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SteelProven
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 11847
Location: Ramstein, Germany
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| Dcash4 wrote: | | SteelProven wrote: | | Dcash4 wrote: | | Dook wrote: | | They don't need Haley if they just let Ben call the plays. |
Ive seen other people say that Ben needs to call his own plays, and honestly - thats a terrible idea.
We may move the ball well at points, but he would take a lot of deep throws, and hold onto the ball and take A LOT of punishment for it. Ben knows what he likes, he doesn't know whats best.
Ben NEEDS someone to save him from himself at times. Its time for him to grow up a little and buy in and see what they can do for him. |
It's not about Ben buying in more then it's a OC playing to Bens strengths. M. Shanahan or his son would be a great OC as they call plays that actually utilize their QBs mobility.
Ben is mobile get him outside the pocket sometimes to minimize the pass rush. Ben is the best when he's moving ( unlike the games against Dallas and Cincy) which gives him moving targets which he normally hits.
Every OC that Ben's had constricts him to the pocket which I think hinders what Big Ben does best. |
I, personally, dont agree. There are different kinds of mobility.
RGIII mobility is breaking the pocket to the edge and giving him a run pass option. He can break you down with his legs. If you dont account for it, you talking a 20+ yard gain. Bens running threat is about 5 yards.
Bens mobility comes within the pocket. Breaking tackles, moving right to left and finding ways to THROW the ball downfield. Rolling out of the pocket is great for young QBs, but it cuts the field in half, and gives you a set amount of time to throw. Keeping Ben in the pocket is much more valuable towards his talents.
To my main point, bens mobility within the pocket leads to big throws downfield. Again, its what Ben likes to do, not necessarily what he always should. |
I agree with the diffferent types of mobility, but that shouldn't relegate OC's to limit Ben in the pocket.
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FourThreeMafia
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 48939
Location: East of Sixburgh
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:26 am Post subject: |
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People keep claiming Haley's offense holds back Ben and our WRs and doesnt play to their strengths.
I have yet to see a decent explanation for that. Simply saying it doesnt make it true.
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SteelProven
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 11847
Location: Ramstein, Germany
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| FourThreeMafia wrote: | People keep claiming Haley's offense holds back Ben and our WRs and doesnt play to their strengths.
I have yet to see a decent explanation for that. Simply saying it doesnt make it true. |
Haley did call a safer game for Ben, but it also limited somethings that the Steelers WR did well.
M. Wallace averaged 18.9 ypc down to 13.2 ( not correct but close)
A. Brown averaged 16.2 ypc down to 11.8
H. Miller 12.5 not down as much 11.5
He's taking the explosive plays out of the offense, which is what made teams fear the Steelers. Haley didn't mix in enough big plays to keep teams honest. There should be know way that a team should dare crowd the LOS with the talent the Steelers have outside. The Chargers don't have great CBs, but they continually crowded the LOS basically daring Haley to go deep. Same as the Cowboys and the few times the Steelers did big plays for Wallace and Brown. Which made the Chargers and Cowboys back up off the LOS, but as soon as the Steelers went back to dink and donk. Boom back comes the pressure.
Another thing is that the Steelers don't run out routes or curl routes. Teams continually use these routes to minimize the Steelers pass rush. But the Steelers have yet to adopt that same philosphy into their game plan.
I liked Haley's offense but at times is was way to coservative and the offense went stagnat because of it.
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Steelers22
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 1347
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| FourThreeMafia wrote: | People keep claiming Haley's offense holds back Ben and our WRs and doesnt play to their strengths.
I have yet to see a decent explanation for that. Simply saying it doesnt make it true. |
yeah, I actually think quite the opposite. Outside of holding back mike wallace, in which it definitely does, the offense actually compliments our pieces in a fairly good manner. Our offensive-line has been our weakness and as a result, ben was taking a lot of hits that weren't necessary. Haley masked that very well with the offense he put in place. Heath excelled in this offense and I think Brown is more than capable of doing so as well. I don't see how Haleys offense is holding anybody back outside of Mike Wallace and he will no longer be on our team most likely so that seems irrelevant now
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The Curtain
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 477
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| I still don't get how it held back Wallace when he failed to catch so many deep passes this season. Maybe we didn't do it enough? But there were plenty of times we did go for it, and Wallace was out of position or dropped it or simply did not make the catch for whatever reason. |
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at23steelers
Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 3721
Location: United States
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| Idk if there's a stat for this but Yards Per Pass to Wallace would be interesting to compare. |
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