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Ray Lewis Retires
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at23steelers


Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 3721
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
armsteeld wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
are you trying to imply that Troy is average? If not, please let me know who you are referring to when "homers" are "making our average players into GOATs"


Troy is an amazing player and I will pm you in order to avoid derailing the OPs thread. Pouncey is the a below average Center who gets by because he had a solid rookie season but has been less than average since. .


ok, Pouncey's overrated, but below average is a stretch.

rollins wrote:
How many people here saw Bob Lilly, - Butkus, or Deacon Jones play?


*raises hand*

yes, I'm old. shut up about it. Razz

that said, the "legend" of Ray Lewis has expanded far beyond what he brought to the field. In his prime, he was the best in the game, sure. But top 3 or top 5 of all time at any position? That's just a bit extreme for my tastes.


Where would you put him at LB wise? Would you say he's a top 5 LB of all-time? Even that's hard just railing off Lambert, Ham, Singletary, Butkus, and of course LT. That was just quickly off the top of my head.
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JDLefebvre


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

at23steelers wrote:
Where would you put him at LB wise? Would you say he's a top 5 LB of all-time? Even that's hard just railing off Lambert, Ham, Singletary, Butkus, and of course LT. That was just quickly off the top of my head.


I'd say he is top 5 LB (and I hate him with a passion)

In no order: Butkus, Ham, LT, Singletary, ray ray
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kethnaab


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDLefebvre wrote:
at23steelers wrote:
Where would you put him at LB wise? Would you say he's a top 5 LB of all-time? Even that's hard just railing off Lambert, Ham, Singletary, Butkus, and of course LT. That was just quickly off the top of my head.


I'd say he is top 5 LB (and I hate him with a passion)

In no order: Butkus, Ham, LT, Singletary, ray ray


I don't think it's fair to include 3-4 OLBs like LT in a direct comparison

I go:

1. Lambert
2. Ray Lewis
3. Jack Ham
4. - Butkus

I think there is a pretty big gap between these guys and Singletary because Singletary was lost in coverage. Possibly the best run stopping MLB I've ever seen, but just lost in coverage.
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miamisteeler


Joined: 04 Jan 2008
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Location: Miami, Florida
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PROBABLY THE BEST DEFENDER I EVER WATCHED PLAY. ABSOLUTE BEAST! Damn glad he is done! Go Steelers
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at23steelers


Joined: 05 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
JDLefebvre wrote:
at23steelers wrote:
Where would you put him at LB wise? Would you say he's a top 5 LB of all-time? Even that's hard just railing off Lambert, Ham, Singletary, Butkus, and of course LT. That was just quickly off the top of my head.


I'd say he is top 5 LB (and I hate him with a passion)

In no order: Butkus, Ham, LT, Singletary, ray ray


I don't think it's fair to include 3-4 OLBs like LT in a direct comparison

I go:

1. Lambert
2. Ray Lewis
3. Jack Ham
4. - Butkus

I think there is a pretty big gap between these guys and Singletary because Singletary was lost in coverage. Possibly the best run stopping MLB I've ever seen, but just lost in coverage.


On a separate note I watched an hour talking about Ray's career on NFL Network. I found it a great piece, that has showed his passion and struggles. My look towards the Ravens players is mostly one of respected rivalry then one of hate, especially the older players like Reed and Lewis. Whereas, the Flyers and Red Wings for instance are hated rivals.

Kethy, I agree that OLB is totally different but people were combining EVERY defensive position, so I thought grouping linebackers was fair. Though I guess 4-3 DE's and 3-4 OLB's would be a more fair judgement.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great player, Possibly the best MLB of all time but I'm elated he's retiring!! That defense is mediocre w/o him. I don't see Ed reed playing more than 2 more years either. Then I think their D will be truly mediocre. Dancing

The past decade we've been blessed with some of the best mlbs of all time.

Ray Lewis, London Fletcher, Brian Urlacher, Teddy Bruschi and Patrick Willis
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JDLefebvre


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
JDLefebvre wrote:
at23steelers wrote:
Where would you put him at LB wise? Would you say he's a top 5 LB of all-time? Even that's hard just railing off Lambert, Ham, Singletary, Butkus, and of course LT. That was just quickly off the top of my head.


I'd say he is top 5 LB (and I hate him with a passion)

In no order: Butkus, Ham, LT, Singletary, ray ray


I don't think it's fair to include 3-4 OLBs like LT in a direct comparison

I go:

1. Lambert
2. Ray Lewis
3. Jack Ham
4. - Butkus

I think there is a pretty big gap between these guys and Singletary because Singletary was lost in coverage. Possibly the best run stopping MLB I've ever seen, but just lost in coverage.


Ehh... most people would say Ham was better than Lambert. I doubt you will find many that have Lambert as GOAT MLB outside of Steeler nation.
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thanks El ramster

KCCO!!!
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at23steelers


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@JD: Jack Ham signed my name and told me good luck so I agree he's better! Laughing Wink
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JDLefebvre


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

at23steelers wrote:
@JD: Jack Ham signed my name and told me good luck so I agree he's better! Laughing Wink


haha... he was the nicer of the two! Wink
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thanks El ramster

KCCO!!!
oderint dum metuant
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at23steelers


Joined: 05 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDLefebvre wrote:
at23steelers wrote:
@JD: Jack Ham signed my name and told me good luck so I agree he's better! Laughing Wink


haha... he was the nicer of the two! Wink


Would be happier if I didn't lose my Rod Woodson and Polamalu autographs!! Crying or Very sad
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kethnaab


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDLefebvre wrote:

Ehh... most people would say Ham was better than Lambert. I doubt you will find many that have Lambert as GOAT MLB outside of Steeler nation.


and when someone can show me or explain to me any holes in Lambert's game, I'll listen to them.

Lambert called the defense, was a monster against the run, and one of the most underrated coverage LBs of all time.

It's "en vogue" to underrate the individual Steel Curtain members anymore. You'll see discussions about how Alan Page was better than Joe Greene, and Mel Blount was barely a top 5-10 CB in the 1970s alone. The argument is always the same "well, he was surrounded by a ton of talent"

yes.

and that's why they won 4 Super Bowls in 6 seasons. That speaks to how insanely dominant those teams were, and it's not like they beat creampuffs along the way.

Dallas Cowboys win 5 Super Bowls in the 1970s if it weren't for the Steelers. The Raiders won a pair of SBs and we knocked them out of the playoffs on multiple occasions. The Vikings made it to 4 Super Bowls. Heck the Colts made it to a few Super Bowls and we knocked them off in the playoffs getting to the Super Bowl

Lambert had no holes in his game. At all. Neither did Ham, for that matter. I put Lambert over Ham simply because Lambert called the defense from inside. I think Ham is undeniably the best 4-3 OLB to play the game, but I value the inside a bit more than the outside in a 4-3.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray Lewis is basically playing with one arm out there. He's missing tackles that he never would of if healthy.
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wwhickok


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad Ray Lewis is retiring. I'm just hoping Ed Reed follows him out the door.
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