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at23steelers
Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 3721
Location: United States
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 Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| kethnaab wrote: | | armsteeld wrote: | | kethnaab wrote: | | are you trying to imply that Troy is average? If not, please let me know who you are referring to when "homers" are "making our average players into GOATs" |
Troy is an amazing player and I will pm you in order to avoid derailing the OPs thread. Pouncey is the a below average Center who gets by because he had a solid rookie season but has been less than average since. . |
ok, Pouncey's overrated, but below average is a stretch.
| rollins wrote: | | How many people here saw Bob Lilly, - Butkus, or Deacon Jones play? |
*raises hand*
yes, I'm old. shut up about it. 
that said, the "legend" of Ray Lewis has expanded far beyond what he brought to the field. In his prime, he was the best in the game, sure. But top 3 or top 5 of all time at any position? That's just a bit extreme for my tastes. |
Where would you put him at LB wise? Would you say he's a top 5 LB of all-time? Even that's hard just railing off Lambert, Ham, Singletary, Butkus, and of course LT. That was just quickly off the top of my head. |
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JDLefebvre
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 22380
Location: Midway PA /Clovis NM
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| at23steelers wrote: | | Where would you put him at LB wise? Would you say he's a top 5 LB of all-time? Even that's hard just railing off Lambert, Ham, Singletary, Butkus, and of course LT. That was just quickly off the top of my head. |
I'd say he is top 5 LB (and I hate him with a passion)
In no order: Butkus, Ham, LT, Singletary, ray ray
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kethnaab
Joined: 05 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| JDLefebvre wrote: | | at23steelers wrote: | | Where would you put him at LB wise? Would you say he's a top 5 LB of all-time? Even that's hard just railing off Lambert, Ham, Singletary, Butkus, and of course LT. That was just quickly off the top of my head. |
I'd say he is top 5 LB (and I hate him with a passion)
In no order: Butkus, Ham, LT, Singletary, ray ray |
I don't think it's fair to include 3-4 OLBs like LT in a direct comparison
I go:
1. Lambert
2. Ray Lewis
3. Jack Ham
4. - Butkus
I think there is a pretty big gap between these guys and Singletary because Singletary was lost in coverage. Possibly the best run stopping MLB I've ever seen, but just lost in coverage.
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miamisteeler
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 431
Location: Miami, Florida
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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PROBABLY THE BEST DEFENDER I EVER WATCHED PLAY. ABSOLUTE BEAST! Damn glad he is done! Go Steelers
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at23steelers
Joined: 05 Mar 2011
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Location: United States
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| kethnaab wrote: | | JDLefebvre wrote: | | at23steelers wrote: | | Where would you put him at LB wise? Would you say he's a top 5 LB of all-time? Even that's hard just railing off Lambert, Ham, Singletary, Butkus, and of course LT. That was just quickly off the top of my head. |
I'd say he is top 5 LB (and I hate him with a passion)
In no order: Butkus, Ham, LT, Singletary, ray ray |
I don't think it's fair to include 3-4 OLBs like LT in a direct comparison
I go:
1. Lambert
2. Ray Lewis
3. Jack Ham
4. - Butkus
I think there is a pretty big gap between these guys and Singletary because Singletary was lost in coverage. Possibly the best run stopping MLB I've ever seen, but just lost in coverage. |
On a separate note I watched an hour talking about Ray's career on NFL Network. I found it a great piece, that has showed his passion and struggles. My look towards the Ravens players is mostly one of respected rivalry then one of hate, especially the older players like Reed and Lewis. Whereas, the Flyers and Red Wings for instance are hated rivals.
Kethy, I agree that OLB is totally different but people were combining EVERY defensive position, so I thought grouping linebackers was fair. Though I guess 4-3 DE's and 3-4 OLB's would be a more fair judgement. |
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 53079
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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Great player, Possibly the best MLB of all time but I'm elated he's retiring!! That defense is mediocre w/o him. I don't see Ed reed playing more than 2 more years either. Then I think their D will be truly mediocre. 
The past decade we've been blessed with some of the best mlbs of all time.
Ray Lewis, London Fletcher, Brian Urlacher, Teddy Bruschi and Patrick Willis
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 mike23md
Days until:Minicamp 21; Training camp 65; Eagles @ Redskins 111 RIP SSF |
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JDLefebvre
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 22380
Location: Midway PA /Clovis NM
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| kethnaab wrote: | | JDLefebvre wrote: | | at23steelers wrote: | | Where would you put him at LB wise? Would you say he's a top 5 LB of all-time? Even that's hard just railing off Lambert, Ham, Singletary, Butkus, and of course LT. That was just quickly off the top of my head. |
I'd say he is top 5 LB (and I hate him with a passion)
In no order: Butkus, Ham, LT, Singletary, ray ray |
I don't think it's fair to include 3-4 OLBs like LT in a direct comparison
I go:
1. Lambert
2. Ray Lewis
3. Jack Ham
4. - Butkus
I think there is a pretty big gap between these guys and Singletary because Singletary was lost in coverage. Possibly the best run stopping MLB I've ever seen, but just lost in coverage. |
Ehh... most people would say Ham was better than Lambert. I doubt you will find many that have Lambert as GOAT MLB outside of Steeler nation.
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at23steelers
Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 3721
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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@JD: Jack Ham signed my name and told me good luck so I agree he's better!   |
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JDLefebvre
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 22380
Location: Midway PA /Clovis NM
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| at23steelers wrote: | | @JD: Jack Ham signed my name and told me good luck so I agree he's better! |
haha... he was the nicer of the two!
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at23steelers
Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 3721
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| JDLefebvre wrote: | | at23steelers wrote: | | @JD: Jack Ham signed my name and told me good luck so I agree he's better! |
haha... he was the nicer of the two! |
Would be happier if I didn't lose my Rod Woodson and Polamalu autographs!!  |
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kethnaab
Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 6976
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| JDLefebvre wrote: |
Ehh... most people would say Ham was better than Lambert. I doubt you will find many that have Lambert as GOAT MLB outside of Steeler nation. |
and when someone can show me or explain to me any holes in Lambert's game, I'll listen to them.
Lambert called the defense, was a monster against the run, and one of the most underrated coverage LBs of all time.
It's "en vogue" to underrate the individual Steel Curtain members anymore. You'll see discussions about how Alan Page was better than Joe Greene, and Mel Blount was barely a top 5-10 CB in the 1970s alone. The argument is always the same "well, he was surrounded by a ton of talent"
yes.
and that's why they won 4 Super Bowls in 6 seasons. That speaks to how insanely dominant those teams were, and it's not like they beat creampuffs along the way.
Dallas Cowboys win 5 Super Bowls in the 1970s if it weren't for the Steelers. The Raiders won a pair of SBs and we knocked them out of the playoffs on multiple occasions. The Vikings made it to 4 Super Bowls. Heck the Colts made it to a few Super Bowls and we knocked them off in the playoffs getting to the Super Bowl
Lambert had no holes in his game. At all. Neither did Ham, for that matter. I put Lambert over Ham simply because Lambert called the defense from inside. I think Ham is undeniably the best 4-3 OLB to play the game, but I value the inside a bit more than the outside in a 4-3.
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 53079
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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Ray Lewis is basically playing with one arm out there. He's missing tackles that he never would of if healthy.
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mike23md
Days until:Minicamp 21; Training camp 65; Eagles @ Redskins 111 RIP SSF |
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wwhickok
Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Posts: 2256
Location: Williamsport, PA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm glad Ray Lewis is retiring. I'm just hoping Ed Reed follows him out the door. |
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