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DawgSoldier


Joined: 30 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:09 pm    Post subject: Browns rank 3rd out 7 as most attractive HC Jobs Reply with quote

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/clark-judge/21478885/wheres-the-most-attractive-head-coaching-opening-you-can-find-it-here

Most attractive NFL head-coaching opening? You can find it here

By Clark Judge | Senior NFL Columnist

3. Cleveland Browns: So Cleveland is working on a string of five straight years with 11 or more losses. Big deal. The Browns aren't as far removed from turning the corner as you might think, primarily because GM Tom Heckert did a decent job of drafting. The problem is that he may not have drafted the right quarterback, with the jury out on Brandon Weeden. Nevertheless, I believe I can get by with him if I must, even though I might want to upgrade the position. I always start at quarterback when gauging a team's attractiveness, and I'll be honest: I don't know that you can win with Weeden. He simply doesn't make enough big plays and makes too many mistakes. So that's a downer. But I do know I can win with a defense that forced 29 turnovers and has a front seven that attacks the pocket. Only the Browns didn't win, and that's because there wasn't enough production out of the quarterback. The good news is that there are young playmakers on offense, with running back Trent Richardson the most notable, so the Browns have a head start there. Still, the question comes back to quarterback, and you don't go far if you don't solve that position.
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Ether


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the assessment
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Bonanza23


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1st congrats for actually not cutting and pasting the whole entire freaking article Laughing Not as hard as it looks eh?

About the article: Good to hear because we have a ton of competition to get a competent HC.
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DawgSoldier


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonanza23 wrote:
1st congrats for actually not cutting and pasting the whole entire freaking article Laughing Not as hard as it looks eh?

About the article: Good to hear because we have a ton of competition to get a competent HC.


pucker up
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Adopt a Brown: QB Brandon Weeden
247/433 57% 2820yds 6.5avg 13 TD 15 Int
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Bonanza23


Joined: 10 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DawgSoldier wrote:
Bonanza23 wrote:
1st congrats for actually not cutting and pasting the whole entire freaking article Laughing Not as hard as it looks eh?

About the article: Good to hear because we have a ton of competition to get a competent HC.


pucker up


Laughing That'll probably be edited.
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Browns rank 3rd out 7 as most attractive HC Jobs Reply with quote

DawgSoldier wrote:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/clark-judge/21478885/wheres-the-most-attractive-head-coaching-opening-you-can-find-it-here

Most attractive NFL head-coaching opening? You can find it here

By Clark Judge | Senior NFL Columnist

3. Cleveland Browns: So Cleveland is working on a string of five straight years with 11 or more losses. Big deal. The Browns aren't as far removed from turning the corner as you might think, primarily because GM Tom Heckert did a decent job of drafting. The problem is that he may not have drafted the right quarterback, with the jury out on Brandon Weeden. Nevertheless, I believe I can get by with him if I must, even though I might want to upgrade the position. I always start at quarterback when gauging a team's attractiveness, and I'll be honest: I don't know that you can win with Weeden. He simply doesn't make enough big plays and makes too many mistakes. So that's a downer. But I do know I can win with a defense that forced 29 turnovers and has a front seven that attacks the pocket. Only the Browns didn't win, and that's because there wasn't enough production out of the quarterback. The good news is that there are young playmakers on offense, with running back Trent Richardson the most notable, so the Browns have a head start there. Still, the question comes back to quarterback, and you don't go far if you don't solve that position.


Clark forgot to mention that Richardson didn't make enough big plays either, nor did Gordon, Little, Benji, Watson, Hardesty, the run blocking on the line, the FB, Cribbs, basically everyone else on offense too.

But yeah, let's put all of the blame on the rookie QB since he dropped TDs passes, dropped 1st down passes, ran shallow routes, lined up wrong, false started, held pass rushers, blew pass protection, ran through the wrong hole, failed to pick up blitzers, pushed off before making a catch, got a PI penalty to lose a game, couldn't play physically at the LOS against WRs, and couldn't stop perfect passes thrown against great coverage.

Clearly Weeden wasn't making enough big plays BUT he is only 155/255 (60.8%) for 1,875 yards, 7.4YPA, 9TDs 5INTs, 94 1st downs, 29 plays of 20+ yards, 8 sacks, and an 87.0 rating in 7 games on the road against Cinci (10-6), Balt (10-6), Giants (9-7), Indy (11-5), Dallas (8-8 ), Oak (4-12), and Denver (13-3)

Makes ya wonder how Luck does in that situation, huh?
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Onizuka


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:42 am    Post subject: Re: Browns rank 3rd out 7 as most attractive HC Jobs Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
DawgSoldier wrote:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/clark-judge/21478885/wheres-the-most-attractive-head-coaching-opening-you-can-find-it-here

Most attractive NFL head-coaching opening? You can find it here

By Clark Judge | Senior NFL Columnist

3. Cleveland Browns: So Cleveland is working on a string of five straight years with 11 or more losses. Big deal. The Browns aren't as far removed from turning the corner as you might think, primarily because GM Tom Heckert did a decent job of drafting. The problem is that he may not have drafted the right quarterback, with the jury out on Brandon Weeden. Nevertheless, I believe I can get by with him if I must, even though I might want to upgrade the position. I always start at quarterback when gauging a team's attractiveness, and I'll be honest: I don't know that you can win with Weeden. He simply doesn't make enough big plays and makes too many mistakes. So that's a downer. But I do know I can win with a defense that forced 29 turnovers and has a front seven that attacks the pocket. Only the Browns didn't win, and that's because there wasn't enough production out of the quarterback. The good news is that there are young playmakers on offense, with running back Trent Richardson the most notable, so the Browns have a head start there. Still, the question comes back to quarterback, and you don't go far if you don't solve that position.


Clark forgot to mention that Richardson didn't make enough big plays either, nor did Gordon, Little, Benji, Watson, Hardesty, the run blocking on the line, the FB, Cribbs, basically everyone else on offense too.

But yeah, let's put all of the blame on the rookie QB since he dropped TDs passes, dropped 1st down passes, ran shallow routes, lined up wrong, false started, held pass rushers, blew pass protection, ran through the wrong hole, failed to pick up blitzers, pushed off before making a catch, got a PI penalty to lose a game, couldn't play physically at the LOS against WRs, and couldn't stop perfect passes thrown against great coverage.

Clearly Weeden wasn't making enough big plays BUT he is only 155/255 (60.8%) for 1,875 yards, 7.4YPA, 9TDs 5INTs, 94 1st downs, 29 plays of 20+ yards, 8 sacks, and an 87.0 rating in 7 games on the road against Cinci (10-6), Balt (10-6), Giants (9-7), Indy (11-5), Dallas (8-8 ), Oak (4-12), and Denver (13-3)

Makes ya wonder how Luck does in that situation, huh?


Lol.....talk about sugar coating.....your man crush is strong on Weeden....I understand you hate the QB carousel, but, the truth is Weeden was horrible....can he improve? Of course, I would hope so considering how bad he did...

Why did you post the stats that make him look decent/good only? Actual stats 297/517 (57.4%), 6.55 YPA, 14 TD to 17 INT, and 72.6 rating........those include vs. bad defense.....

Again if you want to compare him with Luck, then you have to actually watch the games......both Luck and RG3 showed they are rookies, but, as Clark stated.....Weeden doesn't come close to the amount of big plays they were able to do thus resulting in their respective teams wins....you could actually put some of the losses on Weeden's terrible decision making and horrible accuracy....and yes, Id love it if we had Luck or RG3 behind our OLine which gave Weeden plenty of time to throw most of the time.....you can't expect the OLine to contain defenses 100% of the time....

Seriously, our entire offense sucked and a lot of the blame goes on the QB.....especially if the QB overthrows/underthrows an open receiver when the Line is giving him an average of 3+ seconds to throw the ball...there was plenty of time where he had no pressure in his face and he completely missed an open receiver.....Also did you noticed how most defenses stacked the box the majority of the time? Defenses didn't respect Weeden and dared him to beat them.....it all starts and ends with the QB....every QB deals with dropped passes and bad protection at times......but they are also expected to make the throws when the receivers are open and when the line gives you plenty of time to throw...

I agree with Clark that the Browns are a good spot for anyone wanting a HC gig.....talent on both offense and defense....especially like how our defense is coming along and I like the talent we have on offense.....we just need a better HC who can get the most out of his players and either hire an OC or call the plays better than Shurmur.
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:31 am    Post subject: Re: Browns rank 3rd out 7 as most attractive HC Jobs Reply with quote

Onizuka wrote:
Entropy wrote:
DawgSoldier wrote:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/clark-judge/21478885/wheres-the-most-attractive-head-coaching-opening-you-can-find-it-here

Most attractive NFL head-coaching opening? You can find it here

By Clark Judge | Senior NFL Columnist

3. Cleveland Browns: So Cleveland is working on a string of five straight years with 11 or more losses. Big deal. The Browns aren't as far removed from turning the corner as you might think, primarily because GM Tom Heckert did a decent job of drafting. The problem is that he may not have drafted the right quarterback, with the jury out on Brandon Weeden. Nevertheless, I believe I can get by with him if I must, even though I might want to upgrade the position. I always start at quarterback when gauging a team's attractiveness, and I'll be honest: I don't know that you can win with Weeden. He simply doesn't make enough big plays and makes too many mistakes. So that's a downer. But I do know I can win with a defense that forced 29 turnovers and has a front seven that attacks the pocket. Only the Browns didn't win, and that's because there wasn't enough production out of the quarterback. The good news is that there are young playmakers on offense, with running back Trent Richardson the most notable, so the Browns have a head start there. Still, the question comes back to quarterback, and you don't go far if you don't solve that position.


Clark forgot to mention that Richardson didn't make enough big plays either, nor did Gordon, Little, Benji, Watson, Hardesty, the run blocking on the line, the FB, Cribbs, basically everyone else on offense too.

But yeah, let's put all of the blame on the rookie QB since he dropped TDs passes, dropped 1st down passes, ran shallow routes, lined up wrong, false started, held pass rushers, blew pass protection, ran through the wrong hole, failed to pick up blitzers, pushed off before making a catch, got a PI penalty to lose a game, couldn't play physically at the LOS against WRs, and couldn't stop perfect passes thrown against great coverage.

Clearly Weeden wasn't making enough big plays BUT he is only 155/255 (60.8%) for 1,875 yards, 7.4YPA, 9TDs 5INTs, 94 1st downs, 29 plays of 20+ yards, 8 sacks, and an 87.0 rating in 7 games on the road against Cinci (10-6), Balt (10-6), Giants (9-7), Indy (11-5), Dallas (8-8 ), Oak (4-12), and Denver (13-3)

Makes ya wonder how Luck does in that situation, huh?


Lol.....talk about sugar coating.....your man crush is strong on Weeden....I understand you hate the QB carousel, but, the truth is Weeden was horrible....can he improve? Of course, I would hope so considering how bad he did...

Why did you post the stats that make him look decent/good only? Actual stats 297/517 (57.4%), 6.55 YPA, 14 TD to 17 INT, and 72.6 rating........those include vs. bad defense.....

Again if you want to compare him with Luck, then you have to actually watch the games......both Luck and RG3 showed they are rookies, but, as Clark stated.....Weeden doesn't come close to the amount of big plays they were able to do thus resulting in their respective teams wins....you could actually put some of the losses on Weeden's terrible decision making and horrible accuracy....and yes, Id love it if we had Luck or RG3 behind our OLine which gave Weeden plenty of time to throw most of the time.....you can't expect the OLine to contain defenses 100% of the time....

Seriously, our entire offense sucked and a lot of the blame goes on the QB.....especially if the QB overthrows/underthrows an open receiver when the Line is giving him an average of 3+ seconds to throw the ball...there was plenty of time where he had no pressure in his face and he completely missed an open receiver.....Also did you noticed how most defenses stacked the box the majority of the time? Defenses didn't respect Weeden and dared him to beat them.....it all starts and ends with the QB....every QB deals with dropped passes and bad protection at times......but they are also expected to make the throws when the receivers are open and when the line gives you plenty of time to throw...

I agree with Clark that the Browns are a good spot for anyone wanting a HC gig.....talent on both offense and defense....especially like how our defense is coming along and I like the talent we have on offense.....we just need a better HC who can get the most out of his players and either hire an OC or call the plays better than Shurmur.


I didn't offer any opinion about Weeden. I just posted his stats on the road and asked if anyone wondered how Luck would do in a similar situation.

So tell ya what, tell us how you think Luck would do on the road against those opponents.

And hey, why don't you explain why you think the whole offense sucked BECAUSE of the QB when I just gave you over 20 other reasons that Weeden had nothing to do with.

And no, it doesn't all "start and end" with the QB. Your oversimplification is ridiculous.

Let's be real here, ok? Weeden is a rookie. He played on an offense where almost ALL of his skill players were rookies and a 2nd year guy. He was playing in a complicated offense that has taken "elite" QBs years to learn.

I have no unrealistic appraisal of the situation. That's all on you, my friend.

The "facts" you just posted about Weeden, besides spelling his name correctly, were ....um... NONE.

-Weeden averages LESS than 3 seconds before the throws, and his sacks occured LESS than 3 seconds after the snap on average too
-Weeden's underthrows (8 ) AND overthrows (36) were significantly less than Luck's 17, and 53
-Defenses only stacked the box "a lot" on 1st down, and that was Weeden's best down stat-wise (82.8 rating)

None of those things are MY opinion. I'm just the guy pointing them out to you since you don't seem to know.

Look, you just wanna blindly hate on a player, fine. If you want to face the real situation, then letís talk about that.
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duke2056


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did Weeden play real well this year?? no. But what rookie QB is going to look good given the situation. I mean, rookies at RB, WR except Little who is 2nd year. Not only that, but both Little and Gordon came into it with little college experience as well. Not to mention a head coach who was basically as bad as it gets in every aspect.

Now, are the guys on our offense PHYSICALLY talented like Trich, Gordon, Little and others?? Absolutely, but their inexperience hinders their potential for now.

Now as for our offense as a whole, heading into this I thought it would be an absolute miracle if they looked good and played with any consistency at all. Rookies everywhere and a moron for a coach.

Watching the game (which is the best way to get an understanding of what is going on, not looking at stats), I think Weeden looked plenty good and talented enough to the point where with some improvement by him and his teammates, as well as a real coach, he could be very good for us for a while in any offensive system except for a Tebow style.


It's gonna take a good, legit, seasoned coach for us to go anywhere. We keep rotating in youth, youth, and youth as far as players. All that would be fine if we had some seasoned veteran players and a system and culture put in place by a real coach. Let that play itself out for a decade, and we will be looking at multiple playoff appearances.
All we have had since 1999 is the blind leading the blind.

If any of you want Weeden gone, I kinda think you are crazy. I mean of course if we have a chance to get someone with the talent of Luck or RG3 I would kick Weeden to the curb and never look back, but the fact is that isn't the case. Those guys are not available through draft, free agency, or trade.

I would consider thinking our offense should have looked good in 2012 is nothing more tan a rolled up ball of a pipe dream of unrealistic expectations. This is the frickin NFL with the best of the best physical talent that has been coached up by GOOD coaches and veteran mentors. The best teams have this. We don't. Until we get that you can cycle in 99% of the QBs out there and get poor results.

It would be nice to get a Luck or RG3 talent, but until we do I prefer to stick with a talented guy like Weeden and give him several years to play and improve. Really the only thing that can overcome a talent gap in the NFL for a QB is experience and consistency in the system you run and the coaches you have. I am 100% convinced that was not going to be Shurmur, so good riddance.
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Zero chance the Browns draft a QB at pick 4, or trade up for a QB.

And Matt Ryan is so great he has one playoff win.
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Entropy


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chip Kelly reportedly tops Browns' coaching wishlist

Quote:
Whether Kelly would be intrigued by the Browns job is another story, but a pair of GM candidates recently told Caplan that Cleveland ranks "either No. 1 or No. 2 for best roster" of all available jobs, based on the team's young talent.

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Dropkick_pride


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
Chip Kelly reportedly tops Browns' coaching wishlist

Quote:
Whether Kelly would be intrigued by the Browns job is another story, but a pair of GM candidates recently told Caplan that Cleveland ranks "either No. 1 or No. 2 for best roster" of all available jobs, based on the team's young talent.


Best roster?

Maybe those gm candidates are vying for the browns gm job! Haha
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mas_atc


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dropkick_pride wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Chip Kelly reportedly tops Browns' coaching wishlist

Quote:
Whether Kelly would be intrigued by the Browns job is another story, but a pair of GM candidates recently told Caplan that Cleveland ranks "either No. 1 or No. 2 for best roster" of all available jobs, based on the team's young talent.


Best roster?

Maybe those gm candidates are vying for the browns gm job! Haha

Sounds like it. Even though their OL sucks, Chicago has to be #1.
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dropkick_pride wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Chip Kelly reportedly tops Browns' coaching wishlist

Quote:
Whether Kelly would be intrigued by the Browns job is another story, but a pair of GM candidates recently told Caplan that Cleveland ranks "either No. 1 or No. 2 for best roster" of all available jobs, based on the team's young talent.


Best roster?

Maybe those gm candidates are vying for the browns gm job! Haha


ummm...ok, maybe? Confused Don't see how that would make it untrue.

So, are you saying we don't have one of the best rosters of the teams with available spots?
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Estonianzulu


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mas_atc wrote:

Sounds like it. Even though their OL sucks, Chicago has to be #1.


Really?

They have an aging, injury prone turnover machine at QB, an awful O-line, a big time special teams weapon who wants to retire, and a defense looking at their AARP membership applications.

I have a feeling the Bears may be blowing up to rebuild
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Dropkick_pride


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Estonianzulu wrote:
mas_atc wrote:

Sounds like it. Even though their OL sucks, Chicago has to be #1.


Really?

They have an aging, injury prone turnover machine at QB, an awful O-line, a big time special teams weapon who wants to retire, and a defense looking at their AARP membership applications.

I have a feeling the Bears may be blowing up to rebuild


Just looking through their roster.... Yeah, they are number 1 or 2 of available jobs. No question for me. I don't see them blowing anything up.

Eagles I'd put as the other spot. This was a very down year but I'd expect them to be back in the playoff hunt next season, unless they blow it up and then I'd rank them near last!

Carolina might be third.... If for Cam only.

I think I'd put the browns next....

Then the Cards...

Chargers (even with rivers they are a mess)

Bills last
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