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Browns 3-4 D: What Y'all think
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ditchdigger


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 16864
Location: Gahanna, OH
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
Quote:
and likely will continue to be


Based on what?


Based on Haslam's stated goal of building and maintaining continuity. The defense is the one place where that makes sense.

Also, that's what the Steelers did when they hired a new coach and I think Jimmy will copycat that move.
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 2736
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:
Entropy wrote:
bulldog wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
omg not this again.... Confused

some are just too thick headed.


Yes, the thick-headed ignore points that contradict them and misdirect with comments about the individuals making the points instead of the points themselves.

There are 4 gaps between the tackles, right?

There are 3 linemen right?

Someone is playing 2 gaps right?


The gap system refers to the DEs.

In either 34 system, the NT is responsible for both A gaps.


Except for the site he gave me as proof of this "one gap" 34, had the RDE playing 2 gaps.


I don't know what site your talking about, I must have missed that conversation.

But the DE can play either gap. But in the one gap system, the DE will only play one at a time. "shooting the gap" type, like HOU and SF.

in a 2 gap, the DE is responsible for maintaining his spot and controlling the OL and the gaps on either side every play. "staying at home"

Its very difficult to find DE's to fit the 2 gap 23 system, the Crennel tried to install here.

A one gap system would be much easier to install, but take a good play calling coach.


Yes, bulldog, I know this. The context was such that a poster (DS, I think, though I think DP was assisting him) asserted that a "one gap" system is a system where all 3 DL play one gap, therefore it would fit the skill set of the current players on out roster.

When I questioned this, a few months ago, he posted this site as proof that such a system exists. I explained that even THIS system has the RDE playing 2 gaps and EVERY base 3-4 has a lineman playing 2 gaps, since there are 4.

No response was made. Then it was brought up again. I then repeated my disagreement, and was responded to by a "here we go again" comment.

The bottom line is that even a 3-4 defense that may be called "one gap" has at least one lineman playing 2 gaps. Calling a 3-4 defense "one gap" is very misleading as it leads to overgeneralization that penetrators and POA holders can play DE in the 3-4, when they simply aren't going to be able to maintain gap integrity.
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bulldog


Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 5840
Location: Salem
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
bulldog wrote:
Entropy wrote:
bulldog wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
omg not this again.... Confused

some are just too thick headed.


Yes, the thick-headed ignore points that contradict them and misdirect with comments about the individuals making the points instead of the points themselves.

There are 4 gaps between the tackles, right?

There are 3 linemen right?

Someone is playing 2 gaps right?


The gap system refers to the DEs.

In either 34 system, the NT is responsible for both A gaps.


Except for the site he gave me as proof of this "one gap" 34, had the RDE playing 2 gaps.


I don't know what site your talking about, I must have missed that conversation.

But the DE can play either gap. But in the one gap system, the DE will only play one at a time. "shooting the gap" type, like HOU and SF.

in a 2 gap, the DE is responsible for maintaining his spot and controlling the OL and the gaps on either side every play. "staying at home"

Its very difficult to find DE's to fit the 2 gap 23 system, the Crennel tried to install here.

A one gap system would be much easier to install, but take a good play calling coach.


Yes, bulldog, I know this. The context was such that a poster (DS, I think, though I think DP was assisting him) asserted that a "one gap" system is a system where all 3 DL play one gap, therefore it would fit the skill set of the current players on out roster.

When I questioned this, a few months ago, he posted this site as proof that such a system exists. I explained that even THIS system has the RDE playing 2 gaps and EVERY base 3-4 has a lineman playing 2 gaps, since there are 4.

No response was made. Then it was brought up again. I then repeated my disagreement, and was responded to by a "here we go again" comment.

The bottom line is that even a 3-4 defense that may be called "one gap" has at least one lineman playing 2 gaps. Calling a 3-4 defense "one gap" is very misleading as it leads to overgeneralization that penetrators and POA holders can play DE in the 3-4, when they simply aren't going to be able to maintain gap integrity.


I'm not joining the discussion, but that websiteis wrong. They say the weak side DE is playing a 5tech, but he's actually lined up as a 4tech. Then says the strong side is lined up as a 6, but he's lined up as a 5.
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Dropkick_pride


Joined: 18 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are multiple sites that explain the different gap terminology and schemes, not really worth getting into again, just read a few and try not to discuss it with entropy unless you want a long argument over nothing. haha
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dropkick_pride wrote:
There are multiple sites that explain the different gap terminology and schemes, not really worth getting into again, just read a few and try not to discuss it with entropy unless you want a long argument over nothing. haha


That was rude DP.

Discussion about confusing the terminology or overgeneralizing it should not be avoided.
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Dropkick_pride


Joined: 18 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
There are multiple sites that explain the different gap terminology and schemes, not really worth getting into again, just read a few and try not to discuss it with entropy unless you want a long argument over nothing. haha


That was rude DP.

Discussion about confusing the terminology or overgeneralizing it should not be avoided.


Not trying to be rude, just being honest. - See the "weeden is as good as luck" discussion in the other thread. Laughing long discussion over nothing... Laughing
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dropkick_pride wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
There are multiple sites that explain the different gap terminology and schemes, not really worth getting into again, just read a few and try not to discuss it with entropy unless you want a long argument over nothing. haha


That was rude DP.

Discussion about confusing the terminology or overgeneralizing it should not be avoided.


Not trying to be rude, just being honest. - See the "weeden is as good as luck" discussion in the other thread. Laughing long discussion over nothing... Laughing


Not trying to be rude huh? Ok...

Then try explaining who said “Weeden is as good as Luck"? Looks like an attempt to be rude to me for having my opinion that "Weeden played poorly this year and so did Luck".

Long discussion over nothing? That wasn't the case either. It seems that some people think that attacking the person making a comment is better than attacking the comment they make.

And I'm sure you use of emoticons, which contribute nothing, was not an attempt to belittle ME for having an opinion that is both based in truth AND an opinion you can't use actual points to refute.
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Kiwibrown


Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 2491
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are a pass rusher away from being a very good defense.

We are the above and a CB from an elite defense

We are a RE, CB and FS away from an NFL leading defense.


three moves away from being a great D, why change things up and and be 6 moves away from being servicaeble????

why?

Why????
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ReggieCamp


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This one's a little out of left field, but here it is. From Mary Kay:

Quote:
Mary Kay Cabot ‏@MaryKayCabot
#Browns' Haslam seems to favor 3-4 defense, which Cards' Ray Horton runs, league source said.


Haslam favors the 3-4? I wonder if Lerner liked the zone blocking scheme.
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ReggieCamp wrote:
This one's a little out of left field, but here it is. From Mary Kay:

Quote:
Mary Kay Cabot ‏@MaryKayCabot
#Browns' Haslam seems to favor 3-4 defense, which Cards' Ray Horton runs, league source said.


Haslam favors the 3-4? I wonder if Lerner liked the zone blocking scheme.


Lerner was a "double wishbone suspension" guy, since he thought that was a football scheme.

MKC is just stirring the pot, like she gets paid to do.
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KamTrus20


Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Posts: 5399
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ReggieCamp wrote:
This one's a little out of left field, but here it is. From Mary Kay:

Quote:
Mary Kay Cabot ‏@MaryKayCabot
#Browns' Haslam seems to favor 3-4 defense, which Cards' Ray Horton runs, league source said.


Haslam favors the 3-4? I wonder if Lerner liked the zone blocking scheme.


Haslam is an idiot if he wants to change this defensive scheme now and basically start over as well as trade our 43 talent for unfair value.

Mary Kay Cabot is and idiot because she says stuff like this ALOT and is right about 25% of the time.

If I had to pick between which one is true in this case I would put it at 99.9% MKC and .01% Haslam.
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mistakebytehlak


Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 45335
Location: Brooklyn, NY
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
ReggieCamp wrote:
This one's a little out of left field, but here it is. From Mary Kay:

Quote:
Mary Kay Cabot ‏@MaryKayCabot
#Browns' Haslam seems to favor 3-4 defense, which Cards' Ray Horton runs, league source said.


Haslam favors the 3-4? I wonder if Lerner liked the zone blocking scheme.


Lerner was a "double wishbone suspension" guy, since he thought that was a football scheme.

MKC is just stirring the pot, like she gets paid to do.


As much grief as sometimes I like to give MKC, I don't think I'd ever call her a 'pot stirrer'. Yeah she's a little slow on her info, but its usually right/has merit.
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mistakebytehlak wrote:
Entropy wrote:
ReggieCamp wrote:
This one's a little out of left field, but here it is. From Mary Kay:

Quote:
Mary Kay Cabot ‏@MaryKayCabot
#Browns' Haslam seems to favor 3-4 defense, which Cards' Ray Horton runs, league source said.


Haslam favors the 3-4? I wonder if Lerner liked the zone blocking scheme.


Lerner was a "double wishbone suspension" guy, since he thought that was a football scheme.

MKC is just stirring the pot, like she gets paid to do.


As much grief as sometimes I like to give MKC, I don't think I'd ever call her a 'pot stirrer'. Yeah she's a little slow on her info, but its usually right/has merit.


She's not a 'pot stirrer' to the degree of others in Cleveland media, for sure.

I just don't see how changing to a 3-4 does anything but sabotage the team. And I don't think Haslam would be very wise to actually consider it.

I think it's more likely that MKC was referring to the Horton interview and Haslam's take on Horton's 3-4.
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Last edited by Entropy on Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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KamTrus20


Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Posts: 5399
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mistakebytehlak wrote:
Entropy wrote:
ReggieCamp wrote:
This one's a little out of left field, but here it is. From Mary Kay:

Quote:
Mary Kay Cabot ‏@MaryKayCabot
#Browns' Haslam seems to favor 3-4 defense, which Cards' Ray Horton runs, league source said.


Haslam favors the 3-4? I wonder if Lerner liked the zone blocking scheme.


Lerner was a "double wishbone suspension" guy, since he thought that was a football scheme.

MKC is just stirring the pot, like she gets paid to do.


As much grief as sometimes I like to give MKC, I don't think I'd ever call her a 'pot stirrer'. Yeah she's a little slow on her info, but its usually right/has merit.


Usually right? Maybe inseason reports but when it comes to offseason news she along with more everyone else in Cleveland is more often wrong than right.
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mistakebytehlak


Joined: 20 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KamTrus20 wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
Entropy wrote:
ReggieCamp wrote:
This one's a little out of left field, but here it is. From Mary Kay:

Quote:
Mary Kay Cabot ‏@MaryKayCabot
#Browns' Haslam seems to favor 3-4 defense, which Cards' Ray Horton runs, league source said.


Haslam favors the 3-4? I wonder if Lerner liked the zone blocking scheme.


Lerner was a "double wishbone suspension" guy, since he thought that was a football scheme.

MKC is just stirring the pot, like she gets paid to do.


As much grief as sometimes I like to give MKC, I don't think I'd ever call her a 'pot stirrer'. Yeah she's a little slow on her info, but its usually right/has merit.


Usually right? Maybe inseason reports but when it comes to offseason news she along with more everyone else in Cleveland is more often wrong than right.


The point is her info doesn't come without meritable sources
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