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Browns 3-4 D: What Y'all think
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Dawgpoun8017


Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 12293
Location: Waterloo,NY
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yea our current 4-3 is better this year than in any years we ran the 3-4
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DawgSoldier


Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 5947
Location: Medina OH
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
omg not this again.... Confused

some are just too thick headed.


Yes, the thick-headed ignore points that contradict them and misdirect with comments about the individuals making the points instead of the points themselves.

There are 4 gaps between the tackles, right?

There are 3 linemen right?

Someone is playing 2 gaps right?


The gap system refers to the DEs.

In either 34 system, the NT is responsible for both A gaps.


Exactly, Winn and Taylor would be nasty as gap shooting 34 DE's while Rubin holds the middle at NT.

With Rucker and Hughes as depth at DE and Kitchen depth a NT Wink
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 2736
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dropkick_pride wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
omg not this again.... Confused

some are just too thick headed.


Yes, the thick-headed ignore points that contradict them and misdirect with comments about the individuals making the points instead of the points themselves.

There are 4 gaps between the tackles, right?

There are 3 linemen right?

Someone is playing 2 gaps right?




I do believe last time around I posted links to MULTIPLE sites with information that described the different terminology used so that you could get on the same page as the others in the discussion, yet you still refuse to acknowledge any of it and choose instead to argue.....

Brick wall


I explained that your MULTIPLE SITES were NOT examples of what you thought it was. The sites you used gave proof that no one has the 3 linemen all playing one gap.

It was also a site describing a very old version of the 3-4 that teams, aside from the Saints in 1985, don't even use, though there may be similar concepts present in certain stunts or blitzes.

Who uses a Bum Phillips 34 today?
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Reginaldm9


Joined: 14 Apr 2011
Posts: 3780
Location: Kent State University
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What we could spend on help in the secondary turns into a need for LB's which totally throws us off. Wasn't our defense a strength? A change in scheme would totally deplete this.
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 2736
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
omg not this again.... Confused

some are just too thick headed.


Yes, the thick-headed ignore points that contradict them and misdirect with comments about the individuals making the points instead of the points themselves.

There are 4 gaps between the tackles, right?

There are 3 linemen right?

Someone is playing 2 gaps right?


The gap system refers to the DEs.

In either 34 system, the NT is responsible for both A gaps.


Except for the site he gave me as proof of this "one gap" 34, had the RDE playing 2 gaps.
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DawgSoldier


Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 5947
Location: Medina OH
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reginaldm9 wrote:
What we could spend on help in the secondary turns into a need for LB's which totally throws us off. Wasn't our defense a strength? A change in scheme would totally deplete this.


In the 43 the Browns need a primary pass rusher another LB a CB and FS.

In the 34 the Browns need a primary pass rusher another ILB a CB and FS.
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Thomas5737


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
Posts: 5807
Location: WV
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Browns 3-4 D: What Y'all think Reply with quote

abbs1988 wrote:

trade DQJ to cincy


As far as I know the Bengals do not deal with the Browns. I know there have been owner changes but to the best of my knowledge this still exists.
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Dropkick_pride


Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 10805
Location: C-bus
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
omg not this again.... Confused

some are just too thick headed.


Yes, the thick-headed ignore points that contradict them and misdirect with comments about the individuals making the points instead of the points themselves.

There are 4 gaps between the tackles, right?

There are 3 linemen right?

Someone is playing 2 gaps right?




I do believe last time around I posted links to MULTIPLE sites with information that described the different terminology used so that you could get on the same page as the others in the discussion, yet you still refuse to acknowledge any of it and choose instead to argue.....

Brick wall


I explained that your MULTIPLE SITES were NOT examples of what you thought it was. The sites you used gave proof that no one has the 3 linemen all playing one gap.

It was also a site describing a very old version of the 3-4 that teams, aside from the Saints in 1985, don't even use, though there may be similar concepts present in certain stunts or blitzes.

Who uses a Bum Phillips 34 today?



I have no idea why you insist on arguing with everyone about this, and why you think everyone else is wrong, but you alone are correct is beyond me...

Google one gap versus two gap and read a bit... maybe you will understand... or maybe you will email all those authors and tell them they are wrong.

either way, not worth my time talking to a wall about a very simple concept.
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 2736
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DawgSoldier wrote:
Reginaldm9 wrote:
What we could spend on help in the secondary turns into a need for LB's which totally throws us off. Wasn't our defense a strength? A change in scheme would totally deplete this.


In the 43 the Browns need a primary pass rusher another LB a CB and FS.

In the 34 the Browns need a primary pass rusher another ILB a CB and FS.


In the 34 the Browns need a primary pass rusher another ILB a CB and FS.

In the 34 the Browns need a primary pass rusher, 2 DEs that can play 5T and 3T, a WILB, 3-4 compatible depth at all front 7 positions except NT, a CB and FS.
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Reginaldm9


Joined: 14 Apr 2011
Posts: 3780
Location: Kent State University
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DawgSoldier wrote:
Reginaldm9 wrote:
What we could spend on help in the secondary turns into a need for LB's which totally throws us off. Wasn't our defense a strength? A change in scheme would totally deplete this.


In the 43 the Browns need a primary pass rusher another LB a CB and FS.

In the 34 the Browns need a primary pass rusher another ILB a CB and FS.


That's before you deal with all of the departures of players like Jackson and Gocong who can't play in 3-4. Not to mention, the strengths of our players are totally ignored in this system. Jackson goes from probowl level to meh. Add in Sheard and a good chunk of the defensive line, and it's not even worth our time.
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 2736
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dropkick_pride wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
omg not this again.... Confused

some are just too thick headed.


Yes, the thick-headed ignore points that contradict them and misdirect with comments about the individuals making the points instead of the points themselves.

There are 4 gaps between the tackles, right?

There are 3 linemen right?

Someone is playing 2 gaps right?




I do believe last time around I posted links to MULTIPLE sites with information that described the different terminology used so that you could get on the same page as the others in the discussion, yet you still refuse to acknowledge any of it and choose instead to argue.....

Brick wall


I explained that your MULTIPLE SITES were NOT examples of what you thought it was. The sites you used gave proof that no one has the 3 linemen all playing one gap.

It was also a site describing a very old version of the 3-4 that teams, aside from the Saints in 1985, don't even use, though there may be similar concepts present in certain stunts or blitzes.

Who uses a Bum Phillips 34 today?



I have no idea why you insist on arguing with everyone about this, and why you think everyone else is wrong, but you alone are correct is beyond me...

Google one gap versus two gap and read a bit... maybe you will understand... or maybe you will email all those authors and tell them they are wrong.

either way, not worth my time talking to a wall about a very simple concept.


You're not everyone.

You are arguing that a 1985 version of Bum Phillps 34 is a system where all 3 linemen play one gap. It's not.

You are generalizing your misconception to your belief that defensive lineman on our roster right now, that are suited to play ONE GAP, can magically transform into 3-4 DEs that require the lateral ability to play TWO GAPS.

It's simply not accurate.
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Last edited by Entropy on Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dropkick_pride


Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 10805
Location: C-bus
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
omg not this again.... Confused

some are just too thick headed.


Yes, the thick-headed ignore points that contradict them and misdirect with comments about the individuals making the points instead of the points themselves.

There are 4 gaps between the tackles, right?

There are 3 linemen right?

Someone is playing 2 gaps right?




I do believe last time around I posted links to MULTIPLE sites with information that described the different terminology used so that you could get on the same page as the others in the discussion, yet you still refuse to acknowledge any of it and choose instead to argue.....

Brick wall


I explained that your MULTIPLE SITES were NOT examples of what you thought it was. The sites you used gave proof that no one has the 3 linemen all playing one gap.

It was also a site describing a very old version of the 3-4 that teams, aside from the Saints in 1985, don't even use, though there may be similar concepts present in certain stunts or blitzes.

Who uses a Bum Phillips 34 today?



I have no idea why you insist on arguing with everyone about this, and why you think everyone else is wrong, but you alone are correct is beyond me...

Google one gap versus two gap and read a bit... maybe you will understand... or maybe you will email all those authors and tell them they are wrong.

either way, not worth my time talking to a wall about a very simple concept.


You're not everyone.

You are arguing that a 1985 version of Bum Phillps 34 is a system where all 3 lineman play one gap. It's not.

You are generalizing your misconception to your belief that defensive lineman on our roster right now, that are suited to play ONE GAP, can magically transform into 3-4 DEs that require the lateral ability to play TWO GAPS.


It's simply not accurate.


show me where I said anything anywhere near either of those two...
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 2736
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dropkick_pride wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
omg not this again.... Confused

some are just too thick headed.


Yes, the thick-headed ignore points that contradict them and misdirect with comments about the individuals making the points instead of the points themselves.

There are 4 gaps between the tackles, right?

There are 3 linemen right?

Someone is playing 2 gaps right?




I do believe last time around I posted links to MULTIPLE sites with information that described the different terminology used so that you could get on the same page as the others in the discussion, yet you still refuse to acknowledge any of it and choose instead to argue.....

Brick wall


I explained that your MULTIPLE SITES were NOT examples of what you thought it was. The sites you used gave proof that no one has the 3 linemen all playing one gap.

It was also a site describing a very old version of the 3-4 that teams, aside from the Saints in 1985, don't even use, though there may be similar concepts present in certain stunts or blitzes.

Who uses a Bum Phillips 34 today?



I have no idea why you insist on arguing with everyone about this, and why you think everyone else is wrong, but you alone are correct is beyond me...

Google one gap versus two gap and read a bit... maybe you will understand... or maybe you will email all those authors and tell them they are wrong.

either way, not worth my time talking to a wall about a very simple concept.


You're not everyone.

You are arguing that a 1985 version of Bum Phillps 34 is a system where all 3 lineman play one gap. It's not.

You are generalizing your misconception to your belief that defensive lineman on our roster right now, that are suited to play ONE GAP, can magically transform into 3-4 DEs that require the lateral ability to play TWO GAPS.

It's simply not accurate.


show me where I said anything anywhere near that...


Oh, my mistake then. You're agreeing that we don't have any 3-4 DEs on the roster, my bad.
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Dropkick_pride


Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 10805
Location: C-bus
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
omg not this again.... Confused

some are just too thick headed.


Yes, the thick-headed ignore points that contradict them and misdirect with comments about the individuals making the points instead of the points themselves.

There are 4 gaps between the tackles, right?

There are 3 linemen right?

Someone is playing 2 gaps right?




I do believe last time around I posted links to MULTIPLE sites with information that described the different terminology used so that you could get on the same page as the others in the discussion, yet you still refuse to acknowledge any of it and choose instead to argue.....

Brick wall


I explained that your MULTIPLE SITES were NOT examples of what you thought it was. The sites you used gave proof that no one has the 3 linemen all playing one gap.

It was also a site describing a very old version of the 3-4 that teams, aside from the Saints in 1985, don't even use, though there may be similar concepts present in certain stunts or blitzes.

Who uses a Bum Phillips 34 today?



I have no idea why you insist on arguing with everyone about this, and why you think everyone else is wrong, but you alone are correct is beyond me...

Google one gap versus two gap and read a bit... maybe you will understand... or maybe you will email all those authors and tell them they are wrong.

either way, not worth my time talking to a wall about a very simple concept.


You're not everyone.

You are arguing that a 1985 version of Bum Phillps 34 is a system where all 3 lineman play one gap. It's not.

You are generalizing your misconception to your belief that defensive lineman on our roster right now, that are suited to play ONE GAP, can magically transform into 3-4 DEs that require the lateral ability to play TWO GAPS.

It's simply not accurate.


show me where I said anything anywhere near that...


Oh, my mistake then. You're agreeing that we don't have any 3-4 DEs on the roster, my bad.


Very Happy

Now, I can understand why some people think it could work on paper, but I dont think its that easy in real life.
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DawgSoldier


Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 5947
Location: Medina OH
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the official roster. If a change was made 43 to 34

34 DE's
92 Rucker, Frostee DE 6-3 280 29 7 USC
98 Taylor, Phillip DL 6-3 335 24 2 Baylor
90 Winn, Billy DL 6-4 295 23 R Boise State
93 Hughes, John DT 6-2 320 24 R Cincinnati

34 NT's
67 Kitchen, Ishmaa'ily DL 6-1 330 24 R Kent State
71 Rubin, Ahtyba DL 6-2 330 26 5 Iowa State

34 ILB's
52 Jackson, D'Qwell LB 6-0 240 29 7 Maryland
59 Acho, Emmanuel LB 6-1 240 22 R Texas
51 Gocong, Chris LB 6-2 263 29 7 Cal Poly
50 Johnson, James-M. LB 6-1 240 23 R Nevada
94 Carder, Tank LB 6-2 240 23 R Texas Christian

34 OLB's
97 Sheard, Jabaal DL 6-2 255 23 2 Pittsburgh
91 Davis, Hall DL 6-4 270 25 1 LA-Lafayette
94 English, Auston DL 6-3 250 25 2 Oklahoma
96 Stephens, Emmanuel DL 6-3 255 25 2 Mississippi
65 Adams, Kendrick DL 6-5 250 24 R Louisiana State
64 Elmore, Ricky DL 6-5 255 24 1 Arizona

Look ma no new FA's or draft picks even.
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Adopt a Brown: QB Brandon Weeden
247/433 57% 2820yds 6.5avg 13 TD 15 Int
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