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Browns 3-4 D: What Y'all think
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 2736
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

abbs1988 wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
Excercises like this just go to prove what a bad idea this is.

Trading our best defensive players to fit a system is just an awful idea. If this regime allows that to happen, then they will be failures.


I have always been a fan of the 3-4, I guess because I feel that it is a superior defensive scheme than the 4-3.

I think if you have the opportunity to send Jordan and Moch at oppsing QB's all day and draft a physical, athletic, no non sense corner(rhodes)...you take it over sheard, and just werner or possibly miliner in your 4-3 arrangment


The 3-4 is most definitely NOT superior to the 4-3. Both are just schemes and with ALL schemes the players determine the scheme's effectiveness.

Most teams don't run the 3-4, so there can be an advantage to running the 3-4 since most teams don't see it as often. That has nothing to do with the scheme and everything to do with the familiarity and experience offensive players have playing against it.

Now, if you talk about the underlying philosophies of each scheme, you will find that the 3-4 relies heavily on misdirection and discipline while the 4-3 relies more heavily on versatility.

Both philosophies are sound AND the outcomes will vary depending on the personnel.
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abbs1988


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
abbs1988 wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
Excercises like this just go to prove what a bad idea this is.

Trading our best defensive players to fit a system is just an awful idea. If this regime allows that to happen, then they will be failures.


I have always been a fan of the 3-4, I guess because I feel that it is a superior defensive scheme than the 4-3.

I think if you have the opportunity to send Jordan and Moch at oppsing QB's all day and draft a physical, athletic, no non sense corner(rhodes)...you take it over sheard, and just werner or possibly miliner in your 4-3 arrangment


The superior defensive scheme is the one that best fits your players. For the Browns, that is undeniably the 4-3.

Sacrificing high-quality, young players to make a scheme change is a terrible idea. The defense is clearly the most advanced part of our team in terms of rebuilding, so it would make no sense to blow it up and start over at this point.

A few pieces added in this offseason and it could be a top 10 unit. A big part of that would be the players you are advocating trading here.


Naw that's not true... look at the Texans bruh

They traded mario williams and demeco ryans, now there the best d in the league bruh
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Last edited by abbs1988 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:55 pm; edited 2 times in total
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DawgSoldier


Joined: 30 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that BTW was the gap 34 we had.
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DawgSoldier wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
abbs1988 wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
Excercises like this just go to prove what a bad idea this is.

Trading our best defensive players to fit a system is just an awful idea. If this regime allows that to happen, then they will be failures.


I have always been a fan of the 3-4, I guess because I feel that it is a superior defensive scheme than the 4-3.

I think if you have the opportunity to send Jordan and Moch at oppsing QB's all day and draft a physical, athletic, no non sense corner(rhodes)...you take it over sheard, and just werner or possibly miliner in your 4-3 arrangment


The superior defensive scheme is the one that best fits your players. For the Browns, that is undeniably the 4-3.

Sacrificing high-quality, young players to make a scheme change is a terrible idea. The defense is clearly the most advanced part of our team in terms of rebuilding, so it would make no sense to blow it up and start over at this point.

A few pieces added in this offseason and it could be a top 10 unit. A big part of that would be the players you are advocating trading here.


I think could do well in the 34 as well especially a 1 gap 34.

But being ditch you will disagree.


Dude, there aint a "one gap" 34. There is a one gap responsibility and a 2 gap responsibility that 3-4 linemen use to account for 4 gaps between the tackles.

I showed you before that there are linemen responsible for TWO gaps in this supposed "one gap" 3-4. Did you just pretend that didn't happen?
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Dropkick_pride


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

omg not this again.... Confused

some are just too thick headed.
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DawgSoldier


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

now you showed me a difference of opinion.

Kinda of like the tamap 2 and Jaurons 2 gap 43 are one and the same huh Laughing
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Ether


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the 3-4 is a much better defense but the Browns don't have anywhere near the pieces for it. Much rather move on with the 4-3, it's such a unnecessary transition otherwise.
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Dropkick_pride


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ether wrote:
I think the 3-4 is a much better defense but the Browns don't have anywhere near the pieces for it. Much rather move on with the 4-3, it's such a unnecessary transition otherwise.


that is a good way to put it.
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DawgSoldier


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ether wrote:
I think the 3-4 is a much better defense but the Browns don't have anywhere near the pieces for it. Much rather move on with the 4-3, it's such a unnecessary transition otherwise.


I am for keeping the 43 but believe the Browns are the same number of pieces away to having a great D wether it be a 43 or 34.
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Dropkick_pride


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DawgSoldier wrote:
Ether wrote:
I think the 3-4 is a much better defense but the Browns don't have anywhere near the pieces for it. Much rather move on with the 4-3, it's such a unnecessary transition otherwise.


I am for keeping the 43 but believe the Browns are the same number of pieces away to having a great D wether it be a 43 or 34.


only IF everyone can translate to the new scheme...


just because it works on paper does not mean it works on the field.
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Entropy


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dropkick_pride wrote:
omg not this again.... Confused

some are just too thick headed.


Yes, the thick-headed ignore points that contradict them and misdirect with comments about the individuals making the points instead of the points themselves.

There are 4 gaps between the tackles, right?

There are 3 linemen right?

Someone is playing 2 gaps right?
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Dropkick_pride


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
omg not this again.... Confused

some are just too thick headed.


Yes, the thick-headed ignore points that contradict them and misdirect with comments about the individuals making the points instead of the points themselves.

There are 4 gaps between the tackles, right?

There are 3 linemen right?

Someone is playing 2 gaps right?




I do believe last time around I posted links to MULTIPLE sites with information that described the different terminology used so that you could get on the same page as the others in the discussion, yet you still refuse to acknowledge any of it and choose instead to argue.....

Brick wall
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Estonianzulu


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets keep things civil and move on. No need to call anyone thickheaded, no reason to bicker.

Thank you;

EZ
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bulldog


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
omg not this again.... Confused

some are just too thick headed.


Yes, the thick-headed ignore points that contradict them and misdirect with comments about the individuals making the points instead of the points themselves.

There are 4 gaps between the tackles, right?

There are 3 linemen right?

Someone is playing 2 gaps right?


The gap system refers to the DEs.

In either 34 system, the NT is responsible for both A gaps.
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NickZambo


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought literally everyone (excepted bruceb) likes Jauron and the 4-3. Why is this ugly debate coming back around?

No 3-4, period. We are starting to create a semblance of a defense and we are going into year 3 of the 4-3. Let it be...
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