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49ers Sign Billy Cundiff
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clarkfn2284


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EverythingSF wrote:
I like the idea of it. Now that we have an extra week to prepare we need to do something to test Akers and try to get his head right. He gets to go into a competition like setting now with his job on the line which is best equator to a game being on the line. As a coach I think you sit here and hope your guy (Akers) can get his head on straight and win his job while regaining his confidence and getting back to his true form in the meantime. Worst case scenario is that he does terrible in the competition for his job and you more than likely dodge the bullet of him pulling that same kind of choke job in the playoffs, just in this scenario you have to hope Cundiff would not still do the same



this exactly, Akers is going to be given every opportunity in a pressure filled competition to lose his job. If he doesnt then you can feel somewhat more comfortable with him trotting out there during the playoffs.
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NextBigThing wrote:
rice wasn't close to do as good as his stats would lead one to assume


okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears.
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y2lamanaki


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clarkfn2284 wrote:
y2lamanaki wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
you guys need to calm down...


People said the same thing after we signed Brandon Jacobs and others went overboard. Sometimes, signings are just bad.



this signing is only bad if Cundiff takes Akers job and then goes out andmsses fg's. In that case then it falls on both of them because neither guy could do their job.

Fact remains that Akers isnt getting the job done and he has a history of doing this, as he did in Philly. The other fact is no matter who they sign there were 32 teams including the niners who chose they ere not a better option at kicker, incuding cundiff.

im willing to bet that Akers is the guy unless he is hurt

and what was so awful about the Jacobs signing? He dint have an effect on the team either way.


If Cundiff takes Akers' job and misses field goals, it does fall on both of them, but it also falls on the poor signing when other options were still available. In that case, the complaints about the signing are all warranted which is my point.

Akers wasn't known for this - this is only the 2nd time in his career he's missed three field goals under 40 yards, and this is the only time he's been *THIS* bad.

And the Jacobs signing caused us to not get a different short-yardage back, and short-yardage situations are still an issue for this team. The fact that we DON'T have a short-yardage back makes the team worse by that omission rather than who's on the team. That's why the Jacobs' signing was awful, and any missed short-yardage attempts that cause us to punt or settle for 3 points instead of 7 (compounded by the fact that those 3 are hardly a gimme anymore) will fall back onto that poor decision.
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clarkfn2284


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

y2lamanaki wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
y2lamanaki wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
you guys need to calm down...


People said the same thing after we signed Brandon Jacobs and others went overboard. Sometimes, signings are just bad.



this signing is only bad if Cundiff takes Akers job and then goes out andmsses fg's. In that case then it falls on both of them because neither guy could do their job.

Fact remains that Akers isnt getting the job done and he has a history of doing this, as he did in Philly. The other fact is no matter who they sign there were 32 teams including the niners who chose they ere not a better option at kicker, incuding cundiff.

im willing to bet that Akers is the guy unless he is hurt

and what was so awful about the Jacobs signing? He dint have an effect on the team either way.


If Cundiff takes Akers' job and misses field goals, it does fall on both of them, but it also falls on the poor signing when other options were still available. In that case, the complaints about the signing are all warranted which is my point.

Akers wasn't known for this - this is only the 2nd time in his career he's missed three field goals under 40 yards, and this is the only time he's been *THIS* bad.

And the Jacobs signing caused us to not get a different short-yardage back, and short-yardage situations are still an issue for this team. The fact that we DON'T have a short-yardage back makes the team worse by that omission rather than who's on the team. That's why the Jacobs' signing was awful, and any missed short-yardage attempts that cause us to punt or settle for 3 points instead of 7 (compounded by the fact that those 3 are hardly a gimme anymore) will fall back onto that poor decision.



What other options are there at kicker? Every other team has passed on anyone that is out there. Cundiff and Medlock are the only guys who were on a roster if i recall correctly. And both of them were cut early in the year. I think the idea that there are "other options" is a bit over stated. I dont think anyone can argue that there is a better option available and use provable information to back it up. The fact remains all available legs should most likely not be on a roster. I dont want Cundiff anywhere near the field either, but im not blind to the fact that outside of Crosby, i cant think of another kicker that has been as bad as Akers lately.

Also regarding Jacobs, when we all saw him running well during the preseason there wasnt much talk about it. We all knew this guy was a headcase, but to attribute the inability to convert on 3rd and short in the run game on a signing of Brandon Jacobs isnt fair. It also has to fall on the O-Line for not blocking, the playcalling for being predictable, Gore for not being able to convert, Hunter for not being able to convert, and Dixon for not being that guy last season.

Does Jacobs being a cry baby have something to do with it? Absolutely. What if he was great and hen got hurt in the regular season? Who does the blame fall on then? It's a complete failure for this team in regards to 3rd and short.

Im so tired of all of the "there are better options" comments. Please for my sanity will someone provide a clear better option? I even mentioned Joe Nedney. Thats how minimal the kicker pile is. If you think a Medlock or Reed or Cundiff are better then the other then we just flat out disagree.

The only guy that intrigues me is Rackers, but for all the intruigue the fact is he was passed on by 32 NFL teams.
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NextBigThing wrote:
rice wasn't close to do as good as his stats would lead one to assume


okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears.


Last edited by clarkfn2284 on Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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clarkfn2284


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eddy Carmona, Billy Cundiff, Derek Dimke, Erik Folk, Danny Hrapman, John Kasay, Chris Koepplin, Garrett Lindholm, Justin Medlock, John Potter, Neil Rackers, Giorgio Tavecchio, Thomas Weber, Carson Wiggs, Jeff Wolfort


Those were the options........... so again please show me the better option.

Tavecchio was with the Niners and they didnt even want him back to our knowledge.
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NextBigThing wrote:
rice wasn't close to do as good as his stats would lead one to assume


okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears.
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SoCalNiner


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clarkfn2284 wrote:
Eddy Carmona, Billy Cundiff, Derek Dimke, Erik Folk, Danny Hrapman, John Kasay, Chris Koepplin, Garrett Lindholm, Justin Medlock, John Potter, Neil Rackers, Giorgio Tavecchio, Thomas Weber, Carson Wiggs, Jeff Wolfort


Those were the options........... so again please show me the better option.

Tavecchio was with the Niners and they didnt even want him back to our knowledge.


Ryan Longwell and David Buehler are two guys I'd prefer over Cundiff.

I'd take Rackers over Cundiff too.
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clarkfn2284


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoCalNiner wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
Eddy Carmona, Billy Cundiff, Derek Dimke, Erik Folk, Danny Hrapman, John Kasay, Chris Koepplin, Garrett Lindholm, Justin Medlock, John Potter, Neil Rackers, Giorgio Tavecchio, Thomas Weber, Carson Wiggs, Jeff Wolfort


Those were the options........... so again please show me the better option.

Tavecchio was with the Niners and they didnt even want him back to our knowledge.


Ryan Longwell and David Buehler are two guys I'd prefer over Cundiff.

I'd take Rackers over Cundiff too.


Longwell has trouble from distance he was 8 of 13 from 40 and beyond 6 of his 8 misses were outside of 40 yards. his kickoffs are awful toosomething like 19 touchbacks in 70 kicksoffs.

Buehler was cut by Dallas. In 2010 he was 12 of 17 from 40+. More concerning is that he went 4 of 7 from 30-39.

Cundiff was 8 of 15 from outside of 40 last season.

Rackers was 8-13 from 40+ in 2011. My question is why was he passed up by the Redskins for Cundiff and then later Gano?

When i look at these guys i see a group of miserable options who are statistically (as far as recently) awful from 40+ yards.

The best bet is that the competition forces Akers to get it together and stop slumping his shoulders. His confidence is absolutely gone right now. Watching the guys body language on Sunday tells me he wont. In fact, his body language might be the reason he didnt kick on those fourth down conversions.

There just isnt better options, these guys are all the same. It's Harbaugh trying to make chicken salad out of chicken _ _ _ _.
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NextBigThing wrote:
rice wasn't close to do as good as his stats would lead one to assume


okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears.
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SoCalNiner


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clarkfn2284 wrote:
The best bet is that the competition forces Akers to get it together and stop slumping his shoulders. His confidence is absolutely gone right now. Watching the guys body language on Sunday tells me he wont. In fact, his body language might be the reason he didnt kick on those fourth down conversions.


I think that's what we're all hoping for. It does look like his confidence is shot, and I don't see it changing much.
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clarkfn2284


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoCalNiner wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
The best bet is that the competition forces Akers to get it together and stop slumping his shoulders. His confidence is absolutely gone right now. Watching the guys body language on Sunday tells me he wont. In fact, his body language might be the reason he didnt kick on those fourth down conversions.


I think that's what we're all hoping for. It does look like his confidence is shot, and I don't see it changing much.


I absolutely agree with you. After his first miss his shoulders dropped and he hung his head. I understand the frustrations of a slump. I have had my share in baseball. Most of the time its a matter of thinking too much. Just stop thinking and let the body react. It becomes instinctual for an athlete and their body to do what they do. Akers is pressing hard and every kick has become an absolute process for him.

I do not see him making the adjustment anytime soon either. He has been slumping for too long. This looks like a slump that will chase him out of the game in my opinion
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NextBigThing wrote:
rice wasn't close to do as good as his stats would lead one to assume


okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears.
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y2lamanaki


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clarkfn2284 wrote:
What other options are there at kicker? Every other team has passed on anyone that is out there. Cundiff and Medlock are the only guys who were on a roster if i recall correctly. And both of them were cut early in the year. I think the idea that there are "other options" is a bit over stated. I dont think anyone can argue that there is a better option available and use provable information to back it up. The fact remains all available legs should most likely not be on a roster. I dont want Cundiff anywhere near the field either, but im not blind to the fact that outside of Crosby, i cant think of another kicker that has been as bad as Akers lately.


How about Cundiff for starters? He made only 7 of 12 field goals (58.3%) this season before being cut, including two misses from inside of 40 yards. We've already all agreed that he's not going to be our long-range kicker, so if he's only kicking from inside 40, is that the guy we really want? Neil Rackers last year made 84% of his field goals, including 4 of 5 from 50+. You want an idea of someone out there who's better? How about him?

I don't understand this notion that because "32 teams passed on a guy" he's useless. Especially at the kicker position - how many kicking jobs were or are available? 32 teams passed on Nate Kaeding. There was an injury to Dan Carpenter that landed him on injured reserve, so the Dolphins brought him in. We have a struggling kicker - so we brought in...another struggling kicker. Why not go with the guy who had more success both over his entire career and recently as well?

And guess what - 0 teams passed on JaMarcus Russell and 32 teams passed on Victor Cruz 7 times. What does this have to do with anything?

Quote:
Also regarding Jacobs, when we all saw him running well during the preseason there wasnt much talk about it. We all knew this guy was a headcase, but to attribute the inability to convert on 3rd and short in the run game on a signing of Brandon Jacobs isnt fair. It also has to fall on the O-Line for not blocking, the playcalling for being predictable, Gore for not being able to convert, Hunter for not being able to convert, and Dixon for not being that guy last season.


No blame is being placed on Gore or Hunter, nor should it be - they're not short yardage backs, nor are they meant to be. And what Dixon did last year doesn't change the fact that the team THIS year knew that they needed to get better at converting short-yardage situations, so they had to go out and get a short-yardage back. The guy they signed didn't pan out, therefore it was a bad signing, and nobody's converting them now. Put it another way, if Billy Cundiff is put in and misses a kick that costs us in the playoffs, I'm not going to turn around and blame Joe Nedney for retiring two years ago or David Akers who didn't attempt the kick - I'm going to blame Billy Cundiff for missing it, and I'm going to blame the front office for bringing in the only available kicker struggling even worse than David Akers.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clarkfn2284 wrote:
SoCalNiner wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
The best bet is that the competition forces Akers to get it together and stop slumping his shoulders. His confidence is absolutely gone right now. Watching the guys body language on Sunday tells me he wont. In fact, his body language might be the reason he didnt kick on those fourth down conversions.


I think that's what we're all hoping for. It does look like his confidence is shot, and I don't see it changing much.


I absolutely agree with you. After his first miss his shoulders dropped and he hung his head. I understand the frustrations of a slump. I have had my share in baseball. Most of the time its a matter of thinking too much. Just stop thinking and let the body react. It becomes instinctual for an athlete and their body to do what they do. Akers is pressing hard and every kick has become an absolute process for him.

I do not see him making the adjustment anytime soon either. He has been slumping for too long. This looks like a slump that will chase him out of the game in my opinion


I agree with all of this. The only hope I have with the signing is that Akers says "screw this, I'm not done..." and makes his kicks from here on out. Doubtful, and I too think this is going to chase him out of the game for good. He's 38, so it's not like he has a lot of time left anyway, not even for a kicker.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

y2lamanaki wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
What other options are there at kicker? Every other team has passed on anyone that is out there. Cundiff and Medlock are the only guys who were on a roster if i recall correctly. And both of them were cut early in the year. I think the idea that there are "other options" is a bit over stated. I dont think anyone can argue that there is a better option available and use provable information to back it up. The fact remains all available legs should most likely not be on a roster. I dont want Cundiff anywhere near the field either, but im not blind to the fact that outside of Crosby, i cant think of another kicker that has been as bad as Akers lately.


How about Cundiff for starters? He made only 7 of 12 field goals (58.3%) this season before being cut, including two misses from inside of 40 yards. We've already all agreed that he's not going to be our long-range kicker, so if he's only kicking from inside 40, is that the guy we really want? Neil Rackers last year made 84% of his field goals, including 4 of 5 from 50+. You want an idea of someone out there who's better? How about him?

I don't understand this notion that because "32 teams passed on a guy" he's useless. Especially at the kicker position - how many kicking jobs were or are available? 32 teams passed on Nate Kaeding. There was an injury to Dan Carpenter that landed him on injured reserve, so the Dolphins brought him in. We have a struggling kicker - so we brought in...another struggling kicker. Why not go with the guy who had more success both over his entire career and recently as well?

And guess what - 0 teams passed on JaMarcus Russell and 32 teams passed on Victor Cruz 7 times. What does this have to do with anything?

Quote:
Also regarding Jacobs, when we all saw him running well during the preseason there wasnt much talk about it. We all knew this guy was a headcase, but to attribute the inability to convert on 3rd and short in the run game on a signing of Brandon Jacobs isnt fair. It also has to fall on the O-Line for not blocking, the playcalling for being predictable, Gore for not being able to convert, Hunter for not being able to convert, and Dixon for not being that guy last season.


No blame is being placed on Gore or Hunter, nor should it be - they're not short yardage backs, nor are they meant to be. And what Dixon did last year doesn't change the fact that the team THIS year knew that they needed to get better at converting short-yardage situations, so they had to go out and get a short-yardage back. The guy they signed didn't pan out, therefore it was a bad signing, and nobody's converting them now. Put it another way, if Billy Cundiff is put in and misses a kick that costs us in the playoffs, I'm not going to turn around and blame Joe Nedney for retiring two years ago or David Akers who didn't attempt the kick - I'm going to blame Billy Cundiff for missing it, and I'm going to blame the front office for bringing in the only available kicker struggling even worse than David Akers.


As far as the 3rd down situation everyone deserves blame. Jacobs wasn't a third down back either, just because the guy is big doesn't make him an effective 3rd down back, he needs to run with leverage to be effective and who does that? Gore. He is one of the best at that, but he isn't a 3rd down back either. Just because the niners planned on using Jacobs as the third down back doesnt exactly classify him as one. It makes sense to do so because of his size. I think that for Jacobs his football iq is why he didn't see the field. He isn't the sharpest tools and the schemes were more than likely difficult to comprehend.

As for kickers, if you think that every team in the NFL doesn't look to upgrade their team with either a better player or simply for competition at every position with the exception of the biggest stars in the game then you are crazy.

As i posted above Rackers was just ok from 40+ last year. As for Cundiff, i will repeat i DO NOT THINK HE IS GOOD. i dont think he is the answer, there is no answer. Rackers is not the answer either. They are just bringing a guy in to get to Akers and hopefully make him figure it out.


As far as Cundiff not being the long range kicker, if Cundiff starts he will be the only kicker dressed, this team WILL NOT dress 2 kickers. Honestly it will be Akers who kicks and all of this conversation is for nothing.

IMO the idea that there is an option that is so much better than Cundiff out there, to me, is false.
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NextBigThing wrote:
rice wasn't close to do as good as his stats would lead one to assume


okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears.
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clarkfn2284


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

y2lamanaki wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
SoCalNiner wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
The best bet is that the competition forces Akers to get it together and stop slumping his shoulders. His confidence is absolutely gone right now. Watching the guys body language on Sunday tells me he wont. In fact, his body language might be the reason he didnt kick on those fourth down conversions.


I think that's what we're all hoping for. It does look like his confidence is shot, and I don't see it changing much.


I absolutely agree with you. After his first miss his shoulders dropped and he hung his head. I understand the frustrations of a slump. I have had my share in baseball. Most of the time its a matter of thinking too much. Just stop thinking and let the body react. It becomes instinctual for an athlete and their body to do what they do. Akers is pressing hard and every kick has become an absolute process for him.

I do not see him making the adjustment anytime soon either. He has been slumping for too long. This looks like a slump that will chase him out of the game in my opinion


I agree with all of this. The only hope I have with the signing is that Akers says "screw this, I'm not done..." and makes his kicks from here on out. Doubtful, and I too think this is going to chase him out of the game for good. He's 38, so it's not like he has a lot of time left anyway, not even for a kicker.


i think if Akers was able to keep his head straight he vry well would have played into his 40's ala gary and morten andersen
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NextBigThing wrote:
rice wasn't close to do as good as his stats would lead one to assume


okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clarkfn2284 wrote:
As far as the 3rd down situation everyone deserves blame. Jacobs wasn't a third down back either, just because the guy is big doesn't make him an effective 3rd down back, he needs to run with leverage to be effective and who does that? Gore. He is one of the best at that, but he isn't a 3rd down back either. Just because the niners planned on using Jacobs as the third down back doesnt exactly classify him as one. It makes sense to do so because of his size. I think that for Jacobs his football iq is why he didn't see the field. He isn't the sharpest tools and the schemes were more than likely difficult to comprehend.


This is PRECISELY why that was a bad signing that falls back on the front office!

Quote:
As for kickers, if you think that every team in the NFL doesn't look to upgrade their team with either a better player or simply for competition at every position with the exception of the biggest stars in the game then you are crazy.


-Kai Forbath - Washington

-Blair Walsh - Minnesota

-Justin Tucker - Baltimore

-Shayne Graham - Houston

-Greg Zuerlein - St. Louis

-Graham Gano - Carolina


Those are the only teams with new kickers this year (minus teams that used new kickers due to injury like Cincinnati and Miami). Washington initially intended to keep Graham Gano, their kicker from the previous season, but they released him when Cundiff became available (whom they also later released).

Those teams' kickers the previous year:

Washington - Graham Gano (75.6% field goal percentage, ranked 30th, with team 3 years)

Minnesota - Ryan Longwell (78.6% field goal percentage, ranked 26th, with team 6 years)

Baltimore - Billy Cundiff (75.7% field goal percentage, ranked 29th, with team 3 years)

Houston - Neil Rackers (84.2% field goal percentage, ranked 16th, with team 2 years)

St. Louis - Josh Brown (75% field goal percentage, ranked 31st, with team 4 years)

Carolina - Olindo Mare (78.6% field goal percentage, ranked 25th, with team 1 year)


Out of the teams, only Carolina replaced a kicker the year before. Out of the kickers, only Neil Rackers ranked in the top half of the league. He was the only one of the group who wasn't released (his contract ran out). Why do I bring this up? Teams don't typically change kickers often. When they do - it's typically because the kicker previously failed miserably. Teams don't often hold competitions between kickers. Most teams have "camp legs" with the team, but they're not intended to be competition for the job, they're intended to keep the starting kicker's leg fresh throughout training camp/preseason. Giorgio Tavecchio wasn't in camp to compete with Akers for the job. He was there to give him a rest. Now, had the team known Akers would perform as he has, they may have actually brought someone in for competition. But at the time, there was no reason to believe he wouldn't still be as good as he was last year. The teams that did bring in rookies to compete for jobs typically went with them.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fact remains that all of the guys available are middle of the road kickers who are less than stellar. It also remains to be seen if Cundiff is even used, which I do not believe he will be. He was simply brought in to try and force the issue with Akers.

Now if Akers misses FG's and the Niners find a way to win in 9 days then we have a different story. This will be Akers final chance.

I just think the "what an awful signing" sentiment from a lot of poters is a little outrageous considering the 2 underlying factors.

Who really thinks Cundiff sees the field?

And what was out there that was that much better?

Another factor to the signing of Cundiff was most likely his playoff experience comparative to others. Albeit, bad experiences, he has it nontheless.
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NextBigThing wrote:
rice wasn't close to do as good as his stats would lead one to assume


okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clarkfn2284 wrote:
fact remains that all of the guys available are middle of the road kickers who are less than stellar. It also remains to be seen if Cundiff is even used, which I do not believe he will be. He was simply brought in to try and force the issue with Akers.

Now if Akers misses FG's and the Niners find a way to win in 9 days then we have a different story. This will be Akers final chance.

I just think the "what an awful signing" sentiment from a lot of poters is a little outrageous considering the 2 underlying factors.

Who really thinks Cundiff sees the field?

And what was out there that was that much better?

Another factor to the signing of Cundiff was most likely his playoff experience comparative to others. Albeit, bad experiences, he has it nontheless.


This is the part I disagree with. It IS an awful signing, because Akers has been awful, but Cundiff has been just about the only guy available who was a step backward. I agree with you on what Cundiff's 'role' is here, but one - I'd rather a handful of the other available names at this point to do the same thing, and two - a team with Superbowl aspirations shouldn't be using a roster spot for a kicker whose sole purpose is to 'push the starting kicker to do better.' All of this adds up to an awful signing.

And the playoff experience is a non-factor as both Longwell and Rackers have it as well. For that matter, so does Jeff Reed. In fact, all of them combined to not miss a single field goal or extra point in a combined 4 Superbowls (Longwell - 1, Rackers - 1, Reed - 2). All of three of them have a better career field goal percentage than Cundiff. All three of them have a better most recent field goal percentage than Cundiff. All three of them haven't botched the simplest of kicks in clutch situations.

All three of them were better options.
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