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2013 NFL Draft Prospects Thread IV
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TRUTH


Joined: 01 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

baconrad3 wrote:
birdman0069 wrote:
Like him or not, Mathis has only givin up 1 sack in the last 2 seasons. He has been the best O-Linemen on this team over that time. We have bigger problems on this team then replacing Mathis. If this was our biggest problem, we would be talking about how we were going to kill the Falcons today.



Oh so now OL isn't our biggest problem? So what is? Passing on an elite prospect like Warmack simply because "Mathis has only given up 1 sack the past 2 years" (which I'd like to see a link confirming that) is stupid. Warmack is going to be elite. Mathis is 31. He is going to decline this
year, definitely. Our offensive line is really old. I hate how people here just ignore that fact. If we trade down to between 10-15...and Warmack is sitting there...we need to take him and not think twice about it.

Let Warmack and Mathis battle it out for the LG spot. If Mathis beats him, let Warmack sit for a year. If Warmack beats him, then so be it.

Funny how people say OL is our biggest problem, yet they gripe at the thought of taking a guard in the first round because of Evan Mathis
.

We're going to be replacing him next year anyway if we don't this year. And I can guarantee there won't be a prospect of Warmack's caliber next year. So why not just take him now?


Mathis is overrated. Stop reading PFF and watch him play.


Did you watch our defense play? After all the dust settled with the injuries and personnel changes, our line wasn't as bad a people think the last half of the year. Not good by any stretch o the imagination, but not bad for a line that had 4 starters go down. There were completely healthy lines that played worse than ours at the end of the year.

If we don't address our secondary we will be 4-12 again.
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Remixxxxxxx


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't take a guard in the first round to have him battle it out with another player - Warmack would be a wasted pick, because we don't have a spot for him, and taking a guard in the first round 2/3 years is awful.
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RainbowCarebear


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

baconrad3 wrote:
birdman0069 wrote:
Like him or not, Mathis has only givin up 1 sack in the last 2 seasons. He has been the best O-Linemen on this team over that time. We have bigger problems on this team then replacing Mathis. If this was our biggest problem, we would be talking about how we were going to kill the Falcons today.



Oh so now OL isn't our biggest problem? So what is? Passing on an elite prospect like Warmack simply because "Mathis has only given up 1 sack the past 2 years" (which I'd like to see a link confirming that) is stupid. Warmack is going to be elite. Mathis is 31. He is going to decline this
year, definitely. Our offensive line is really old. I hate how people here just ignore that fact. If we trade down to between 10-15...and Warmack is sitting there...we need to take him and not think twice about it.

Let Warmack and Mathis battle it out for the LG spot. If Mathis beats him, let Warmack sit for a year. If Warmack beats him, then so be it.

Funny how people say OL is our biggest problem, yet they gripe at the thought of taking a guard in the first round because of Evan Mathis
.

We're going to be replacing him next year anyway if we don't this year. And I can guarantee there won't be a prospect of Warmack's caliber next year. So why not just take him now?


Mathis is overrated. Stop reading PFF and watch him play.


Mathis have been our Best OL the past 2 years, thats Not an opinion, Thats a fact. He isn't the mauler Peters is, but he's a very good Guard. I would have no problem taking Warmack and plug him at RG. Hopefully that would help Todd.
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Kempes


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We could make a case for picking a player from every position in the first round excluding RB...

I wouldn't be against taking Warmack in the first but it wouldn't be my first choice.
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birdman0069


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

baconrad3 wrote:
birdman0069 wrote:
Like him or not, Mathis has only givin up 1 sack in the last 2 seasons. He has been the best O-Linemen on this team over that time. We have bigger problems on this team then replacing Mathis. If this was our biggest problem, we would be talking about how we were going to kill the Falcons today.



Oh so now OL isn't our biggest problem? So what is? Passing on an elite prospect like Warmack simply because "Mathis has only given up 1 sack the past 2 years" (which I'd like to see a link confirming that) is stupid. Warmack is going to be elite. Mathis is 31. He is going to decline this
year, definitely. Our offensive line is really old. I hate how people here just ignore that fact. If we trade down to between 10-15...and Warmack is sitting there...we need to take him and not think twice about it.

Let Warmack and Mathis battle it out for the LG spot. If Mathis beats him, let Warmack sit for a year. If Warmack beats him, then so be it.

Funny how people say OL is our biggest problem, yet they gripe at the thought of taking a guard in the first round because of Evan Mathis
.

We're going to be replacing him next year anyway if we don't this year. And I can guarantee there won't be a prospect of Warmack's caliber next year. So why not just take him now?


Mathis is overrated. Stop reading PFF and watch him play.


There are Truly times when you sound like another poster around here.
List, in order, the problem areas this team has, position by position, and starting Guard isn't even on the radar. We need a developmental Guard that can start in the next 2-3 years. We need a starting R/Tackle. We need a Developmental LT that can start in 2-3 years. Injuries on the O-Line were the biggest problem the last 2 years, not the talent level of the guys starting.
And you are completely wrong if you think 31 is old for a player along the O-Line. Upper echelon talent, along the O-Line, play well into their mid thirties.
CB (x2), Safty (x2), WR, OLB, TE , DTS and DE are are extremely big needs for this team.
Bad teams don't have the luxury of taking the "best guy available". You have to weigh needs into the equation. Who gives a crap if you have the best Guard in football if you are consistantly giving up 28-30 points a game.
You sound like one of these guys that thinks every player coming out this year is a future HoF guy and that couldn't be further from truth, especially this year.
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baconrad3


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remixxxxxxx wrote:
You don't take a guard in the first round to have him battle it out with another player - Warmack would be a wasted pick, because we don't have a spot for him, and taking a guard in the first round 2/3 years is awful.



I'm just saying hypothetically if we sign a Tackle. But assuming we don't sign any big time tackle in FA...taking Warmack in the first round wouldn't be a terrible idea.

Peters-Mathis-Kelce-Warmack-Herremans

Warmack would be an anchor on our line for the next 10 years....He's the best G prospect in a long time. But you think he'd be a wasted pick for a team with three 30+ year old starting offensive lineman, two of which are coming off season ending injuries?

Rightt.....
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baconrad3


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

birdman0069 wrote:
baconrad3 wrote:
birdman0069 wrote:
Like him or not, Mathis has only givin up 1 sack in the last 2 seasons. He has been the best O-Linemen on this team over that time. We have bigger problems on this team then replacing Mathis. If this was our biggest problem, we would be talking about how we were going to kill the Falcons today.



Oh so now OL isn't our biggest problem? So what is? Passing on an elite prospect like Warmack simply because "Mathis has only given up 1 sack the past 2 years" (which I'd like to see a link confirming that) is stupid. Warmack is going to be elite. Mathis is 31. He is going to decline this
year, definitely. Our offensive line is really old. I hate how people here just ignore that fact. If we trade down to between 10-15...and Warmack is sitting there...we need to take him and not think twice about it.

Let Warmack and Mathis battle it out for the LG spot. If Mathis beats him, let Warmack sit for a year. If Warmack beats him, then so be it.

Funny how people say OL is our biggest problem, yet they gripe at the thought of taking a guard in the first round because of Evan Mathis
.

We're going to be replacing him next year anyway if we don't this year. And I can guarantee there won't be a prospect of Warmack's caliber next year. So why not just take him now?


Mathis is overrated. Stop reading PFF and watch him play.


There are Truly times when you sound like another poster around here.

"Anyone who I disagree with is wrong and is PE". That's your line of thinking

List, in order, the problem areas this team has, position by position, and starting Guard isn't even on the radar. We need a developmental Guard that can start in the next 2-3 years. We need a starting R/Tackle. We need a Developmental LT that can start in 2-3 years. Injuries on the O-Line were the biggest problem the last 2 years, not the talent level of the guys starting.

OK let's see...Who is our starting RG if Todd stays at RT? Fireman Dan? You're comfortable going into this season with Watkins as a starter at RG? Basically you think all we need is "developmental late round O-lineman". THREE STARTERS HAD SEASON ENDING IINJURIES. You think they're just gonna all come back at 100% all hunky-dory? And I'm the delusional one?
And you are completely wrong if you think 31 is old for a player along the O-Line. Upper echelon talent, along the O-Line, play well into their mid thirties.

Name me O-lineman 32+ years of age who are still playing at a high level. Please. All you're doing right now is blurting out random statements with zero credibility to them at all. I'm also waiting for your link to show that Mathis has only given up 1 sack in 2 seasons

CB (x2), Safty (x2), WR, OLB, TE , DTS and DE are are extremely big needs for this team.
I'm just flabbergasted right now that you don't think OL is a big need on this team.

Bad teams don't have the luxury of taking the "best guy available[/b]". You have to weigh needs into the equation. Who gives a crap if you have the best Guard in football if you are consistantly giving up 28-30 points a game.

What?! You can't be serious right? I don't even know what to say.....I mean, you are saying that we should go for need over BPA. Successful teams build through the draft by going BPA. Not drafting by need. I'd love for you to argue otherwise.

You sound like one of these guys that thinks every player coming out this year is a future HoF guy and that couldn't be further from truth, especially this year.

More ridiculous statements coming out of your mouth with zero credibility to them. Where have I said that? Warmack is arguably THE best guard prospect to come out in over a decade. That is a fact.


[/b]
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baconrad3


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TRUTH wrote:
baconrad3 wrote:
birdman0069 wrote:
Like him or not, Mathis has only givin up 1 sack in the last 2 seasons. He has been the best O-Linemen on this team over that time. We have bigger problems on this team then replacing Mathis. If this was our biggest problem, we would be talking about how we were going to kill the Falcons today.



Oh so now OL isn't our biggest problem? So what is? Passing on an elite prospect like Warmack simply because "Mathis has only given up 1 sack the past 2 years" (which I'd like to see a link confirming that) is stupid. Warmack is going to be elite. Mathis is 31. He is going to decline this
year, definitely. Our offensive line is really old. I hate how people here just ignore that fact. If we trade down to between 10-15...and Warmack is sitting there...we need to take him and not think twice about it.

Let Warmack and Mathis battle it out for the LG spot. If Mathis beats him, let Warmack sit for a year. If Warmack beats him, then so be it.

Funny how people say OL is our biggest problem, yet they gripe at the thought of taking a guard in the first round because of Evan Mathis
.

We're going to be replacing him next year anyway if we don't this year. And I can guarantee there won't be a prospect of Warmack's caliber next year. So why not just take him now?


Mathis is overrated. Stop reading PFF and watch him play.


Did you watch our defense play? After all the dust settled with the injuries and personnel changes, our line wasn't as bad a people think the last half of the year. Not good by any stretch o the imagination, but not bad for a line that had 4 starters go down. There were completely healthy lines that played worse than ours at the end of the year.

If we don't address our secondary we will be 4-12 again.



Laughing So because there were a few times with worse o-lines than ours that means that OL is not an issue for us?

I swear, it's always the same handful of people on here that I get into these arguments with. It's a continuing trend, not a coincidence.

I love how people just think that getting all Todd, JP, and Kelce back just magically solves all our issues. Forget that they are all coming off major injuries! Don't worry that JP and Todd are both 30+ years old! Forget that we have a massive hole at the RG spot!


Simply put, Warmack is a top 5 player in this draft, just won't go that high because of the position he plays. But he is an elite prospect. And I think that if we do trade down, we need to go BPA. Warmack very well could be the BPA at around pick 10-14.

Drafting strictly by need and passing up elite prospects, compared to teams going best player available no matter what, is what separates teams like Oakland and Cleveland from Green Bay, San Fran, and New England.
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birdman0069


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a list of this years all pro voting




Guards(equals)
Mike Iupati, San Francisco, 38; Jahri Evans, New Orleans, 23; Marshal Yanda, Baltimore, 17; Logan Mankins, New England, 7; Evan Mathis, Philadelphia, 5; Josh Sitton, Green Bay, 5; Alex Boone, San Francisco, 2; Chris Snee, New York Giants, 2; Wade Smith, Houston, 1.
Center(equals)
Max Unger, Seattle, 16; Maurkice Pouncey, Pittsburgh, 10; Chris Myers, Houston, 7; John Sullivan, Minnesota, 7; Mike Pouncey, Miami, 7; Nick Mangold, New York Jets, 2; Eric Wood, Buffalo, 1.

Well over half of this list, at first glance, are players at least 30 years of age.
Is it you contention all of these players that received All Pro votes, that are 30 and over should be replaced in the 2 years?
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Remixxxxxxx


Joined: 06 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

baconrad3 wrote:
Remixxxxxxx wrote:
You don't take a guard in the first round to have him battle it out with another player - Warmack would be a wasted pick, because we don't have a spot for him, and taking a guard in the first round 2/3 years is awful.



I'm just saying hypothetically if we sign a Tackle. But assuming we don't sign any big time tackle in FA...taking Warmack in the first round wouldn't be a terrible idea.

Peters-Mathis-Kelce-Warmack-Herremans

Warmack would be an anchor on our line for the next 10 years....He's the best G prospect in a long time. But you think he'd be a wasted pick for a team with three 30+ year old starting offensive lineman, two of which are coming off season ending injuries?

Rightt.....


I think everyone needs to realize that Herremans needs to be moved back inside or he'll continue to struggle. I also think drafting a guard in the first round two of the last three years is a bad idea. We have bigger needs then guard right now. I'm not saying that Warmack isn't a good prospect, he's just not a good fit for us.
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TRUTH


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

baconrad3 wrote:
TRUTH wrote:
baconrad3 wrote:
birdman0069 wrote:
Like him or not, Mathis has only givin up 1 sack in the last 2 seasons. He has been the best O-Linemen on this team over that time. We have bigger problems on this team then replacing Mathis. If this was our biggest problem, we would be talking about how we were going to kill the Falcons today.



Oh so now OL isn't our biggest problem? So what is? Passing on an elite prospect like Warmack simply because "Mathis has only given up 1 sack the past 2 years" (which I'd like to see a link confirming that) is stupid. Warmack is going to be elite. Mathis is 31. He is going to decline this
year, definitely. Our offensive line is really old. I hate how people here just ignore that fact. If we trade down to between 10-15...and Warmack is sitting there...we need to take him and not think twice about it.

Let Warmack and Mathis battle it out for the LG spot. If Mathis beats him, let Warmack sit for a year. If Warmack beats him, then so be it.

Funny how people say OL is our biggest problem, yet they gripe at the thought of taking a guard in the first round because of Evan Mathis
.

We're going to be replacing him next year anyway if we don't this year. And I can guarantee there won't be a prospect of Warmack's caliber next year. So why not just take him now?


Mathis is overrated. Stop reading PFF and watch him play.


Did you watch our defense play? After all the dust settled with the injuries and personnel changes, our line wasn't as bad a people think the last half of the year. Not good by any stretch o the imagination, but not bad for a line that had 4 starters go down. There were completely healthy lines that played worse than ours at the end of the year.

If we don't address our secondary we will be 4-12 again.



Laughing So because there were a few times with worse o-lines than ours that means that OL is not an issue for us?

I swear, it's always the same handful of people on here that I get into these arguments with. It's a continuing trend, not a coincidence.

I love how people just think that getting all Todd, JP, and Kelce back just magically solves all our issues. Forget that they are all coming off major injuries! Don't worry that JP and Todd are both 30+ years old! Forget that we have a massive hole at the RG spot!


Simply put, Warmack is a top 5 player in this draft, just won't go that high because of the position he plays. But he is an elite prospect. And I think that if we do trade down, we need to go BPA. Warmack very well could be the BPA at around pick 10-14.

Drafting strictly by need and passing up elite prospects, compared to teams going best player available no matter what, is what separates teams like Oakland and Cleveland from Green Bay, San Fran, and New England.


Wasn't David DeCastro considered the best Guard prospect in the last 15 years??

He went 24th and was the second guard taken in the draft. The NFL doesn't place that high of a draft stock in guards. I'll take him after 20+

For a team like us who has multiple positions to fill, you do not take a guard in the first. Take a player who has more of an impact on the team.

I consider a guard a complementary pick, that is after you have your cornerstones of a franchise in place.

Everybody on here realizes we have OL issues, but the first step in a franchise rebuild is not a guard.

Get your cornerstones first, QB, LT, Defensive leader.
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marky_b27


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While interior linemen are becoming more important, we just don't need to draft one for the sake of it to start immediately.
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RollEagles


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that if one coaching regime drafted 2 guards in 3 years in the first round, it would seem a little suspect.

But our situation is very different. The precious coaching regime took a big swing and miss with Danny Watkins. We don't know if Mathis is a fit for the new offense. Based upon whether he is or not, guard could become a need.

Beggars can't be choosers. Our offensive line needs at least 1 new player. It can be solved with either a guard or tackle. Herremans is a manageable tackle. Regardless, I don't know how much of a role Mathis or Herremans will have once we are out of the rebuilding phase.
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birdman0069


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please list our team needs in priority of importance.
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TRUTH


Joined: 01 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RollEagles wrote:
I agree that if one coaching regime drafted 2 guards in 3 years in the first round, it would seem a little suspect.

But our situation is very different. The precious coaching regime took a big swing and miss with Danny Watkins. We don't know if Mathis is a fit for the new offense. Based upon whether he is or not, guard could become a need.

Beggars can't be choosers. Our offensive line needs at least 1 new player. It can be solved with either a guard or tackle. Herremans is a manageable tackle. Regardless, I don't know how much of a role Mathis or Herremans will have once we are out of the rebuilding phase.


The OL is not the end all be all for success. Look at Cleveland, they have one of the best lines in the game, and Green Bay gave up the most sacks this year.

One great OL, with average surrounding players 5-11

One average OL, with great surrounding players 11-5

You have to build your line, but there are more important needs.
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