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Steelers offseason post Rainey release... Sooo
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chrisororke


Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 516
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:04 am    Post subject: Steelers offseason post Rainey release... Sooo Reply with quote

Restructure: Ben, Troy, Woodley, Timmons ... 20M savings

UFA: Burress, Lewis (dewayne Washington deal 5yr/25M ; say 6M signing bonus. .. 2M cap hit yr1), Wallace (FRANCHISE TAG .. 9M)

RFA: McLendon, Dwyer, Redman all 1.2M tender, Manny Sanders 2.742M 1st rd tender... I think if you give Manny 1.2M someone signs him away. I like Manny but I'd take a first rd pick for him easily.

Pre FA cuts: Harrison, Keisel

-- should be cap compliable at this point

..............

MARCH TRADE: Mike Wallace to OAK for 3rd rd pick 66 overall and Rolando McClain (shut up hes good.... 100 tackle a year guy just got in trouble AGAIN for tinting his ride... big deal)

DRAFT -- TRADE CITY

1.17 -- Choice to SF (1.30, 2.30, 3.30, 4.30 for 1.17, 4.17, 5.17)
1.29 -- Choice to PIT (2014 1st, 3.30 for 1.29) GIOVANNI BERNARD RB UNC
He's very Ray Rice esque and BAL will be down next year due to Ray and maybe Ed retiring. He can run, catch, return kicks... basically Ray Rice out there and fills and expands on Rainey's role. Could become "feature back" which means like 20 touches a game nowadays. Division is up for grabs, time to change that, take the risk, and seize the division. The 2014 pick should be 28+ bc Steelers can bounce back and win division in a weaker AFC North. The Bengals suck.
1.30 -- Choice to BUF thru SF (1.30 for 2.08, 3.08, 6.0Cool
2.08 -- (choice from BUF) Da'Rick Rogers WR Tennessee Tech
Love how he uses big paws to snatch ball. Finally a tall, physical WR for Ben
2.12 -- Choice from MIA (2.12 for 2.30, 2014 4th) DAVID AMERSON CB/FS NC ST
The kid has ball skills. Think stat was 14 INTs last two years
2.17 -- XAVIER RHODES CB FLA ST
I believe part of the reason our secondary is "statistically good" every year is bc were a ground it out offense and the other team doesn't touch the ball enough. As opposed to NE that runs up to the huddle and run plays every 15 seconds and has best offense bc they get more plays a game. Ironic how NE has poo poo defense. Manning only needs a minute tho to score on us. That needs to change. Rhodes can come up and make the hit in the run game that the Steelers love. He can cover and has good ball skills
2.19 -- (choice from NYG 2.19 for 3.04 and 3.17) MARGUS HUNT DE SMU
This is the freak of the draft class and could shoot up boards after combine. I really only like him and Floyd as DE prospects bc of speed-strength combo. And we need another DL especially if we cut Keisel. Feel like speed is always sacrificed in a 3-4 for strength and a "JJ Watt" type is ideally what we need as 3-4 DE. Exhibit A of speed being sacrificed is Ziggy Hood. Hood sucks. He is a 4-3 DT. And I think part of his suckness caused Woodley to have down year bc he gets washed every play. Hammy also hurt Woodley. Negative of Hunt is he will be 25 but hey maybe he will block a FG...had like 9 I think in college. When was the last time we blocked a FG??? Like probably 30 years
3.04 -- Choice to DAL
3.08 -- (choice from BUF) JOHN SIMON OLB OHIO ST
Might be able to trade down a bit from here to get him but he can get pressure on the QB. Speed is questionable but what other 3rd rd pick did we draft out of Ohio St with speed concerns that still made it... Vrabel ... TD extraordinaire lol
3.17 -- Choice to DAL
4.30 -- (Choice via SF) TYRANN MATHIEU CB/S LSU
I think the sky is the limit for this kid and I hope the Steelers can look past the weed bc it will be legal before his career is over. They drafted Adams with weed concerns hopefully they can do it again. Unfortunately '12 draft class had more off field trouble than we hoped so Steelers may shy away from these picks. Just like Amerson he can play either CB or S. So, give them a shot to play either. I feel Tyrann can be Troy like and Amerson is more a Free Safety
6.08 -- (choice from BUF) RYAN ALLEN P LA TECH
Simply put field position is always a weakness. Butler sucks!! Two time Ray Guy winner, punt average has improved every year. Oh yeah and most importantly he's left footed (Kapinos, Sepulveda, Gardocki, Miller)
6.17 -- MARCUS LATTIMORE RB SOUTH CAROLINA
Could be on the board at this point. I am absolutely certain the only way you get value from late rd picks are moves like this ... Drafting someone with injury flag, character flag, kickers, punters. Very few good players slip through the cracks anymore just look at past drafts and the success stories usually a character flag was concern not ability of player. I hate wasting picks on a BS Center like Shipley, LB like Mike Humpal (mike who? ... Exactly), David Paulson -- he's a west coast guy that fits in PHI NOT PIT. The reason Beachum turned out okay and I called that one was bc his shuttle and 3 cone times were really good so he had a shot.. He's just a pu$$y that's why he fell
7.17 -- DUSTIN HOPKINS K FLA ST
Hope he is still on the board here. Kid can kick 50+ all day. Pretty accurate as well... Just watching NIU-FSU game the other day his 50 yd FG attempt just seemed like it shot out of a cannon. It was a miss but probably good from 60+... Maybe if he makes a FG from 55 (which ties Steelers record) and it looks good from 60+ Tomlin will let him try and get the record. That Suisham kick still pisses me off his career long is 52 and he's been in the league awhile and just made a 52 by looks of it a couple of yards. What makes you think he'll have both accuracy and distance from 54. Each kick is independent from next. Just bc he hit it 54 doesn't mean he'll do it again. If anything stats tells us it will be anything but 54 yards.
7thRdComp -- (for Willie Gay) OL .. Preferably a guard

POST JUNE CUTS -- Ike, Colon, Suisham (great yr, cap casualty, we need to be in FG range just like rest of league once we hit 35)

Cotchery could be a March cut if we need more room. WRs are a dime a dozen and could be June 1 cut as well. I like Cotchery he's just not dynamic enough and half of these WRs New England cuts I'm like damn I'd take him

JUNE FA Signings -- Batch or Leftwich, WR, Starks (tho I heard it won't happen), etc. Basically Steelerlike FA signings maybe bring Keisel back.

With all these moves were pretty set (maybe 8-10M cap room), basically rebuilt without the rebuilding phase and can talk about extending Manny Sanders and changing that 2.742 cap hit of course after dangling him out to the rest of NFL with RFA tender. Even if offer for Sanders was matchable I'd take DeAndre Hopkins with our 1st rd comp

OTHER THOUGHTS -- We just discovered TE, don't waste a pick on another bc he wont have big enough impact. Praying for OUR boy Heath and his recovery. Cam Heyward will be a stud, part of reason Keisel needs to go. It's beyond me why McLendon didn't get more PT definitely better than aging Hampton... Should also improve pass rush.



I got a feeling..... Pittsburgh's going to the Super Bowl!!!
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stillersenat


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, but nobody is going to give a 1st for Sanders.
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gatek99


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I don't believe most of this will happen, I absolutely love the draft!

We fill a bunch of needs and get a good deal of top prospects
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jcm412


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was about to stop reading after the trade for R.McClain.

Then I wished I did when I saw the joke of a trade.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No offense, but this is laughably unrealistic.

I dont mind people having a different take, but is way too far out of reality to really be constructive about.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gatek99 wrote:
As I don't believe most of this will happen, I absolutely love the draft!

We fill a bunch of needs and get a good deal of top prospects
this! Lotta stretches IMO with the trades.

Margus Hunt currently can be had later IMO, but I think come draft time he could be a late 2nd or 3rd rounder.

I'm not a fan of taking Mathieu that high. The guy has problems, we had two rookies get in off the field problems this year and the organization is going to take a chance on Mathieu... Ehhhh probably not Shame on you
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JustPlainNasty


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
No offense, but this is laughably unrealistic.

I dont mind people having a different take, but is way too far out of reality to really be constructive about.


I figured you'd reflect my opinion on this, so I didnt respond. Any trades posted in mocks should be justified as to the reason a team would be interested in trading with you, if not its just a falacy. And this is beyond anything remotely realistic so it loses credibility.

Many of the players taken though were decent.
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1BackInBlackFan


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You want to draft not one but two players that were kicked off of their college teams (Mathieu and Rogers) and then trade for a player who was suspended by his NFL team and has been known more for being in the police blotter than what he has done on the field? Confused McClain just didn't get arrested for tinted windows but the genius also gave the cops a false name as well for a meaningless violation like that. He's never had a 100 tackles for a year either even though last season he had a career high of 99. I don't want any of those guys on the team.
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Gatoradus


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trading our 1st to either Bengals or Dolphins for their both 2nd rounds is more realistic.

I'm more of a Jawan Jamison fan than Giovani Bernard.

BTW Jamison is closer to Ray Rice than Giovani Bernard is. Better comparsion for Bernard would be Leshaun McCoy.
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95lloyd


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one wanted to give a 1st rounder for Wallace but they will for Sanders?
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1BackInBlackFan wrote:
You want to draft not one but two players that were kicked off of their college teams (Mathieu and Rogers) and then trade for a player who was suspended by his NFL team and has been known more for being in the police blotter than what he has done on the field? Confused McClain just didn't get arrested for tinted windows but the genius also gave the cops a false name as well for a meaningless violation like that. He's never had a 100 tackles for a year either even though last season he had a career high of 99. I don't want any of those guys on the team.
exactly! Cool Applause
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chrisororke


Joined: 14 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies and in usual arguments a lot of nit picking so ill address concerns.

1) to clarify I never said we'd get a 1st for Manny Sanders but as a top flight organization you are strapped as is and you can't afford to lose a player of his caliber. Teams will be willing to cough up a 3rd and say 5yr/28 mill and then the Steelers would be really in a tough position to match. That's why you spend the extra 1M or so by tagging him at a 1st rd tender so it makes the decision a lot easier. And the reason we didn't get a 1st for Wallace last year was not so much the 1st rd pick the team would lose it was more so the 100M contract that he was "demanding"

2) ppl question the reality of this happening and that will be a focal point from here on out. The restructures are the restructures that will happen. The guarantees are 7, 56, 94. There will be one more restructure and I think it will be Troy bc Heath is really the only other option and quite frankly I'm more confident with Troy's calf than Heath's knee at this point. Heath was already avg TE speed and sadly I think he will lose a step with the knee

3) the McClain trade. It's pretty known that OAK will release McClain and its a basic lock that Wallace will leave and we get nothing in return. So basically let's hook up and avoid bidding wars in FA and getting nothing in return for our players. Oakland is content with cutting ties with Mcclain and could use a WR like Wallace (and we still want Wallace just can't pay him) that's the reason it costs Oakland a 3rd in the Wallace deal.

4) no offense in the draft. First of all the first two picks are a RB and WR, the top two NEED areas for this offense once Mendy and Wallace leave. As for the rest of the offense DO NOT DRAFT A TE. We just discovered the TE and drafting a TE just bc Heath got hurt is a waste of a pick IMO. Heath will come back and be a great player I just don't foresee him ever matching his production this year and drafting a TE would be like 20 catches and that doesn't merit an early pick... Which is where the only good TEs are this draft and every draft for that matter. Next I guess would be OL and with Pouncey 1st, Gilbert 2nd, DeCastro 1st, Adams 2nd we don't need to spend a day one or day two pick there bc we have already invested so much in the OL. I do like Justin Pugh OT Syracuse but he's a day two pick and that's a waste. At WR we'd have AB, Manny with his RFA tender (or in utopia a 1st rd pk for him), Plex, Cotchery (maybe, maybe not), Draft pick Rogers, and maybe sign one of those FA WR that i feel are better than Cotchery and our usual 4th WR. Not sure where not addressing offense comes into play unless you want to spend a pick on a 3rd QB like EJ Manuel. No thanks.

5) alright first draft trade is our pick 1.17 to SF. Say SF falls short this year they see Warmack OG sitting there at 17 and they are a ground and pound team he's a perfect guy to fortify their OL. As for the value lets not forget the Steelers traded a 1st, 3rd, 4th to get Holmes in '06 to just move up SEVEN spots. Now keep in mind that's moving from 32 to 25 not from 11 to 4 there's a big difference. So to move from 30 to 17 and to give up your 1st, late 2nd/3rd, and swap 4ths and pick up our 5th is a pretty good deal. They'd have 1, 4, 5, 5, 6, 7 as picks to work with and if they don't go OG first they could look at WR at pick 17 then go OG rd 4 which in terms of NFL draft value makes more sense. At 17 you might be 1st WR taken.

2nd trade is trading with the kings of stacking picks NE. By giving them the 3rd from SF and next years 1st in an effort to rebuild now and win it all next year makes sense to both parties. NE only had 4 picks last year and still having three picks in the first two days of draft is something I think BelliDick would go for

Trade three is trading down again with our original pick. So we went from 17 to 30 now going to Buffalo pick 8 second round. Buffalo should either trade down or take Te'O with their first pick and now they want a QB and don't want to mess with scrub teams like the Chiefs and others targeting a QB early 2nd rd. To move up 10 spots and only costs you a 3rd and 6th for potentially your QB of the future it sounds like a good deal for both sides... Barkley sucks

Next trade is trading up with Miami. This makes even more sense now that someone said Miami has two second rd picks this year. They will be more willing to move and they have two 3rds (B Marsh trade) as well so to move down a few spots and pick up a future 4th rd pick sounds like a good move for them. The move was from 2.30 to 2.12 and say the take WR 1st rd bc they need WR as much as SF they still need another WR. So say they think 2.12 is a little early for someone like Tavon Austin they back it up to 2.30 pick up a pick in the process and still have picks in their arsenal to move back up for whomever they see falling down the draft.

Next trade was with NYG but I think it also said DAL. Regardless they pick one after the other and both need a few pieces. It's the oldest trade in the book two 3rds for mid to late 2nd rd pick. Trade is 2.19 for 3.04 and 3.17 so to move down 17 spots and also pick up a middle of the rd 3rd is more fair to them IMO. However, this years draft is the draft of the 1st-2nd rd grade and I don't like the value as much in the third round. I had us taking MARGUS HUNT who's right in that 1st-2nd range. Someone said he's 3rd rd wake up he's not that now nor in the future after a great combine. Like I said I like Shariff Floyd too another 1st-2nd grade but I think Hunt could be Watt or "the next Scott Shields" a guy with athleticism that sucked. I'm willing to take the risk, rather than take another plug and play DE much to the skill level of Heyward.

And that's it for draft day trades.

6) I might as well address them both in the same category Rogers and Tyrann. Both have "character" flaws but I'd say they have gone about their business in different ways. Both caught for failed drug tests i.e. Marijuana. Rogers was not kicked off the team like someone said. Coach Dooley said well decide later in the year so Rogers said F that and went to Tennessee Tech. He was pretty mature about it as well. Said yeah failed drug test just immature got a lot of growing up to do. Tyrann on the other hand got kicked off team and caught again. IMO since both Colorado and Washington state legalized marijuana this year and the president said federal agents will not pursue bc bigger fish to fry I fully expect at least 6 states putting marijuana on the ballot in 2014 and expect most of them to pass. The point is my prediction is since this is happening and Tyrann will play a long time bc he's GREAT marijuana will be legal before his career is over. So it's going to be a moot point bc it will be a legal drug like alcohol. Like I said and agree with you the '12 draft class and off the field problems hurt the probability of this happening but the Steelers publicly stated a NEED FOR TURNOVERS. Tyrann Mathieu is TURNOVERS. I think they can look past these allegations and ironically last "character flaw" weed smoker Mike Adams had no problems and won steelers rookie of year. So theres the argument for drafting a kid who drops in draft bc of "character flaw" just bc he smokes weed. It has worked before and it paid off. There are much more dangerous drugs out there than weed and i guess the weed is still mellowing big Mike out. Way to go kid!

Someone said 4th rd is early for Tyrann I'd take him 3rd but we have too many needs, I'd consider us fortunate if he was there late 4th rd

7) forgot about the cuts. Harrison will be 35 and his agent is dumbest man alive. Hes got no guaranteed money left just like the signing bonus pro-ration left so he makes sense to cut from a cap perspective as well as from a damaged goods perspective (knee, back) and from an age perspective. Like you gotta get paid early and middle years heavy bc they'll turn on you when get old and don't deserve the salary of your contract.

As for Keisel if he refuses a pay cut they'll cut him. It's that simple. Like Keisel but Cam needs to he a starter. Once again Ziggy you suck.

...

Post June Cuts is standard Colon. He smells so good.

I would also cut Ike. Well in my draft we take 3 DBs and sign Lewis. IMO it's either Ike or Lewis not both. Lewis has ball skills and upside and Ike I just don't know he's good but like just above average and that's not worth a 7M salary for next year.

Cool my man Rolando McClain. I discussed the trade now I gotta talk about the off the field incidents. I think it has a lot to do with being in Oakland. If he was here he could be boys with Timmons, Spence, Woodley, etc and get out of hell in Oakland. Not that he couldn't hang out with teammates there it is just a different culture, a losing and reckless culture out there. The Steelers could sit him down tell him hes staying in Pittsburgh at least for the first year and just hang low. Both incidents were off season incidents. Being part of a family is an underrated aspect of life and being a part of the Steelers family and having success could help him get his head on straight.
Teammate Tommy Kelly said poor season is everyones fault and he hopes they dont label Mcclain the scapegoat but thats exactly what will happen. His incidents were both in hometown Decatur, AL. Once for 3rd degree assault he got shot at and they didn't know it was him. He was charged, appealed, and guy settled for money. Most recent was tinted windows. I knew about false name but didn't even mention it bc college kids get drinking tickets ALL THE TIME and give fake names and get away with it. I considered the tints worse than giving a false name for safety reasons of course and IMO getting in trouble for tints is a joke. Just because he gave a wrong name and had tints doesnt make him a bad person and a "character" flag. I would just call him an idiot for getting pulled over police running the plate and he goes yeah my name is Ron Mexico.

... Impossible to argue wont happen again but I think he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. You can try to avoid these situations and i think the Steelers could help him by putting him in a good environment with good teammates. Like if he was getting in physical altercations two times that's a trend but two just unfortunate independent events doesn't make you a bad person or put you on the do not touch list. That's not fair
... Hell Ernie Holmes can shoot at helicopters and Steelers can get no charges against him. I believe they can help this 23 yr old figure it out

I also love how I got called out for saying he's a 100 tackle a year guy. Well.... He never had 100 tackles in a year but he did have 99 his rookie year. Like get real. And that's on a JOKE of a defense in Oakland that gives up 35 pts a game. Imagine what he could do next to Timmons... Who's gonna get there first?

9) the reality of draft was problem for some and here's why Steelers have never traded away future 1st for a 1st in current draft. Why they should is bc Ben isn't getting younger and NOW IS THE TIME TO ACT. We have a team that can win now and if you do trade that pick it becomes a late 1st as you're playing today (coming off a BYE) as opposed to fighting to get in wild card game which is where they'll be next year.

Is it really unrealistic to trade down twice from our current pick of 1.17. The Colts did it and got Bob Sanders. The players are slotted where they'll go. Bernard, Rogers, Amerson, Rhodes, and Hunt are all 1st-2nd rd guys... and they are all GOOD. We'd have 5 picks in first 49 picks (bc Cle and NO forfeit 2nd rd pks). Is it worth getting 5 guys with potential 1st rd ability and all you mortgage is a 2014 1st rd pick. My financial calculations says YES!! Potential trades with SF (WR/OG) NE (2014 1st, 2013 3rd) BUF (QB) are all so very possible to happen bc of how the draft will fall.

I think Steelers can look past Rogers, Tyrann and McClain are maybes. But Steelers expressed their NEED FOR TURNOVERS so I think they care more about winning than what the media or anyone else thinks of their team and how they run it.


--lastly someone said Gio Bernard is like Shady McCoy not Ray Rice. Way off Bernard is like a one cut square shoulders and go. Little bit of power as well a la Ray Rice. Listen Shady Mccoy is a dance around Reggie Bush/Barry Sanders style. Gio has shiftiness, ability to make people miss, and is not tall listed at 5'10 205 that's why he's Ray Rice like. The OL is transforming into an athletic OL and a one cut back is what you need. He brings element of being elusive.

This person eloquently put Ray Rice is like Jamison. The only similarity I see are they are both from Rutgers and will be 2nd rd picks.


I've got other players I like and ill post them when the time comes but we just have so many pieces to fill and if the draft goes like this I honestly believe the puzzle is complete.

DO NOT SIGN
MENDY
HAMPTON
FOOTE
ALLEN
FOSTER
MUNDY
SYLVESTER
DAVID JOHNSON

... Funny thing is theyll bring back a few of these bums thus totally ruining my offseason
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say the main problem is the double standard with cutting Rainey, then the blind eye that you are turning to Rogers and Mathieu. Then, Even worse trading for Rolando McClain who's sucked on the field and off since he was drafted. What?

No way those guys are steelers. Shocked
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chrisororke


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I posted on my phone so I don't know how to link a YouTube video. But for Gio Bernard film type him in and the video has like 12K hits and pretty cool background music. If you don't like music, you aren't watching the right vid
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chrisororke


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rainey was a "can't hit women" concern. That's why he was cut. Granted they have been kinda talking out of both sides of mouth bc James hit his girl bc he wanted kid baptized and she didn't. The steelers tried to justify that by saying our religious views think child should be baptized as well. Then there's Ben and they can say NOT GUILTY.

Rogers, Tyrann are marijuana. I bet of 53 around 20 minimum smoke weed. Like Colon why do you think he wears so much cologne? They just drafted Adams for marijuana and look where it got him steelers rookie of year. If you are too straight laced for public opinion you'll never win.

McClain is still young like these guys, 23, I am just adamant these are wrong place wrong time. It's not like he's making the same mistakes over and over again. It's just he's gone home and is with the wrong crowd and with a change of scenery we're talking about a different crowd. The steelers could sit him down and be like you have a tighter leash than most players, one incident and you're gone. I dunno when you put someone in a different place more often than not especially with success involved and that's what happens in Pittsburgh you end up with a different result. Just how it works
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